SN's long haul fleet

[DeltaWiskey]

The youngest 744M of LH are 20 years, and pretty much end of life. By the time LH has phased them out, figure out yourself. SN can invest their money in better ways.

From a spotters point of view, it might be nice to see a 747 in SN colors, but it is just highly unlikely. I think the chances are bigger to see a 747-8 in SN colors in 10-15 years time. But still unlikely...

That additional cargo capacity is nice when you can fill it. CargoB's original intention was to become a player only on the African continent. Soon they started to fly to South America, because their was more money to be made, and even that was not enough...

I think SN is doing a very nice job by adding LH capacity with a steady pace, without loosing much profit.

The A330-300 is (one of) the best aircraft around for SN for now, they dont really need the range of the -200. I think the best option for SN is to order new A330-300 asap, HGW variants with a max T/O of 238tonnes.
The first 787 won't be much more fuel efficient than the latest A330, which proves how efficient the latest A330 are. The 787 will obviously improve and become a real game-changer, but it is sold out until 2018-19-20(?).

[Boavida]

The youngest 744M of LH are 20 years, and pretty much end of life. By the time LH has phased them out, figure out yourself. SN can invest their money in better ways.

And what about the 20 Boeings 747-8I LH ordered?

I keep trying

[kiwiandrew]

The youngest 744M of LH are 20 years, and pretty much end of life. By the time LH has phased them out, figure out yourself. SN can invest their money in better ways.

And what about the 20 Boeings 747-8I LH ordered?

I keep trying

There is no "M" version of the 747-8I .

On the other hand I don't think any of LH's 747-430M are still in combi configuration either , and I am not sure whether they can be converted back to that configuration for a different operator .

[DeltaWiskey]

That is correct, LH doesn't operate them in a combi lay-out. But they can still be converted to an M (for another operator), no problem. We won't see any 747-8combi, as certification rules have changed in mean time.

The 747-8I, which I mentioned in my earlier post too, the chances we ever see it in SNs color are higher than a 747-400, but still unlikely. And by 'ever' I mean in 10-15y time, LH has still 20 options for the 747-8 (I can see them ordering more, but lets first wait for EIS), and in that timeframe we will probably see the A380-900 in service, which LH will order undoubtedly.

Anyhow, I like to see a 747 in SNs colors as well, but we have to be realistic and the chances are fairly small, really small...

[regi]

Anyhow, I like to see a 747 in SNs colors as well, but we have to be realistic and the chances are fairly small, really small...

We all doubt it a lot. Except...if LH sees something we don't see. BRU is not equiped to receive the A380. ( please correct me if wrong but I think BRU has no double deck air bridges ) But BRU can easely receive B747's. With the arrival of the B747-800 and the A380 at LH, the older B747's will become more or less obsolete, but not necessarely useless. The combination of a high pay load in the cargo bay together with enough passenger space could be a frontal attack on KLM/AF on some African destinations.
This is the exact opposite of what a former member tried to do: use narrow bodies to deep Africa.
But we have to be realistic about the costs.
Extra note: there was a remark about personnel. Is there no more ex Sabena personnel certified for the B747's ? Or is the difference between the Sabena 747 and the LH planes too great ?

[cnc]

Extra note: there was a remark about personnel. Is there no more ex Sabena personnel certified for the B747's ? Or is the difference between the Sabena 747 and the LH planes too great ?

sabena operated 747 classics, no 744's.
i still see a chance for the 744 with SN, operated by LH untill SN gets their own planes.
unless LH can free up some A340"s

[RoMax]

sabena operated 747 classics, no 744's.
i still see a chance for the 744 with SN, operated by LH untill SN gets their own planes.
unless LH can free up some A340"s

There were rumours about 4-5 A340's of LX wich would be replaced by A346's and that these A343's may go to SN. But these were just rumours, like we heard already so many rumours about SN. Altough if LX is really planning to replace some of their A343's by -600's, SN could be a good candidate to take these A343's as a temporary solution until SN gets new(er) A330's (and later B787 or A350).

But still I think there is only a small chance SN will get A343's and a even smaller chance that SN will ever get B747 (altough it would be nice...).

[DeltaWiskey]

A340 'rumors' seem way more plausible than any 747s. (although I bet it comes just from a bunch of enthousiast like here)
The A340 is still an efficient airplane, just the 330 and the 777 do it more efficient. The A343 has a good bit of advantages over a 747 for SN.
I do remember an SN official expressed his intention to open routes to LAX/SFO and the Far East (or I am wrong, sources anybody?). As the A330-300 has not the range, the A343 seems a good candidate for this routes.

I don't think the 787/350 will come anytime soon to SN, both are pretty much sold out for this decade...

It'll become clear when LH takes full control of SN and when LH is getting more A380 and 747-8. (they will free up some smaller widebodies which then can be shuffled around in the LH group). Interesting times ahead =D

[RoMax]

A340 'rumors' seem way more plausible than any 747s. (although I bet it comes just from a bunch of enthousiast like here)

It came from some people from Switserland some months ago, I think it was also posted on airliners.net.

I do remember an SN official expressed his intention to open routes to LAX/SFO and the Far East (or I am wrong, sources anybody?). As the A330-300 has not the range, the A343 seems a good candidate for this routes.

SN indeed said SFO is a candidate for their future US network, but no idea of Far East (altough I could have missed that).

I don't think the 787/350 will come anytime soon to SN, both are pretty much sold out for this decade...

Indeed, and that's why SN needs new or at least newer A330's. But I think SN will first get some older aircraft from the LH group or other leased aircraft (A330, A340,...?)

It'll become clear when LH takes full control of SN and when LH is getting more A380 and 747-8. (they will free up some smaller widebodies which then can be shuffled around in the LH group). Interesting times ahead =D

If LH takes over SN this year, I suppose we'll know something more towards the end of the year about their plans (not only long haul probably).

[dsa330]

rumours have it that there's an extra 333 beeing identified (or has been...)

[RoMax]

rumours have it that there's an extra 333 beeing identified (or has been...)

Sounds logicall as there are rumours that another A333 would come 'late this year'.

Aviation and its rumours...
But if there are rumours like these about the A343's, I would like them to become truth.

[DeltaWiskey]

September/October last year we already 'heard' that there will be coming 3 more A330 in 2011-2012. Good to hear they've found the first one, or is that 'extra' a fourth?

[cathay belgium]

Hi,

Okay about long haul rumours and spotters wishes with old glory sabena in mind
KLM will soon redraw their MD11 so these will come again available on the lease market..

Now a bit more serious; an A340-300 would be great, but there one point I don't get it,
why would LHgroup will get rid of A340 of LX and put them with SN ??
What's the point if AFI will gain money why don't put a new plane direct in the fleet instead of
another old too much drinking A340 ?

In case of waiting time for the newer ordered planes I could understand,
but then what's the difference between an A340 or an B747-400??
Is there such a big gap between these types, I always tought it was the same comparison just Airbus/Boeing thing..

Thinking that there are more B747's available than A340 in LH group..

About short haul; no ATR's/CRJ in the LH group for passing waiting time on CSseries ??

CX-B

[pjvdv]

OO-SFO left on the 5th as BEL9901 to the paintshop.
Only OO-SFM left then... Is there a chance one of those 2 ( SFO or SFM ) will get a *A C/S ?

Grts,
PJ

[tolipanebas]

I don't know if they will paint one of the A330s in STAR colours, but I've seen a proposal...

They would definitely look great, on condition they do not paint the engines lila like on the A319...

[cnc]

In case of waiting time for the newer ordered planes I could understand,
but then what's the difference between an A340 or an B747-400??
Is there such a big gap between these types, I always tought it was the same comparison just Airbus/Boeing thing..

first of all the only A340 able to compete with the 747 on terms of seats is the A340-600 and it still has less seats and cargo volume.
the A340-300 is just like an A330 but with 4 engines and the advantage of more range and higher MTOW in hot or high places like south afrika, south america,...

[Polaris]

I don't know if they will paint one of the A330s in STAR colours, but I've seen a proposal...

They would definitely look great, on condition they do not paint the engines lila like on the A319...

Nice profile picture Tolipanebas!

[cnc]

I don't know if they will paint one of the A330s in STAR colours, but I've seen a proposal...

i guess it would like the same like the MS A330 in star livery? i like the tail but the fuselage is way too boring.
i love the silver skyteam livery

[appel]

but then what's the difference between an A340 or an B747-400??

for SN the big difference is that they don't need crew with a complete new typerating
for the A340 they just need maybe a few hours in a sim

and regarding an A380 in Brussels i thought the main reason is the width or the strength of the taxiways

[MiStEr-T]

and regarding an A380 in Brussels i thought the main reason is the width or the strength of the taxiways

or not..

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Lufthans ... 622e0a2d5c