BeOnTop Airlines - Liège Airport

[Desert Rat]

Reread my post, dear Ketje, I said a LC operator not Etihad and not Qatar either......

And I'm pretty confident these guy's will soon operate big birds...

[Desert Rat]

I suggest this topic is closed ... it's really not up to us to find BoT a business case .

No no, it's up to us to decide, at least it's quite fun to discuss with people's which are not full of themselves!

[an-148]

if you remember well, I developped the same approach already one month ago, speaking about "feeding inbound"..........

[cnc]

the feeding doesn't make much sense if you ask me.
the airline they would feed isn't present in LGG. in aviation things can change quickly so what would happen if that foreign airline cancels the plans at the last moment?

[Acid-drop]

guys, they were talking about feeding 5 hubs. It's clear enough.
Now, Yves also told me that it's still a project with a lot to do, and a lot of problems.

[leketdelaviation]

cnc

That's the point here, that particular LCC would come to LGG probably and this is what would sustain BOT's project....
now if that LCC decides to go elsewhere I guess BOT would have to changes plans or abandon their idea...

Anyway there is a market out of Belgium and certainly out of LGG for such project and I am convinced that if an external partner/operator (outside Europe) would participated in this, it would be a success...

to acid drop,

Jean-Philippe M talked about the Asian Operator they would feed.... and he is in the deal too

[theeuropean]

This is a long shoooooooooot but any (I know its very slim) chance Air Berlin move some flights to Liege and Be On Top feed them?

Or maybe they make a similar mini-hub at Liege (like Jet Airways has at Bru) and feed the carrier(s) at the other end? As in they feed the carrier(s) not at Liege but where they fly too...

One of the biggest LCC in Asia is JetStar(Subsidiary/sister LCC from Qantas Airlines)
They have JetStar in SIN covering most of Asia's main destinations and Australia.

JetStar has ordered two(2) Airbus 330-200 and are officially going to expand their network to "Europe"....

I would certainly not be surprised to see them come in LGG and have BOT be their partner in further services to European destinations out of LGG and the same for the one's flying to Asia using JetStar to fly further.

Jetstar had intentions I think if I remember correctly to start serving Southern Europe (Athens and Rome). However they did mention Brussels as being looked at also...who knows...lets wait and see what happens with Jetstar

[Saint Ex]

... Normally you have it the other way round: you see market demand, come up with a viable business case to cover it profitably and then set up an airline around that, selecting fleet and name at the end...

I fully agree with that (only) ! :thumbup:

By the way Mister "Verlan",
do you have any idea about what's the market demand around Liege Airport ?

[fretn]

Air Dubai?
Air Arabia?

[Desert Rat]

All right, I'll repolish my Crystal ball then......

Anyway all the best for your project, it is good to see that people in the aviation business still keep and assume the risk of a new business venture...

It is more difficult indeed than to criticize other people's project, behind the computer's screen of a very confortable and well established company.

Cheers,

DR

[Saint Ex]

... Anyway all the best for your project, it is good to see that people in the aviation business still keep and assume the risk of a new business venture...
It is more difficult indeed than to criticize other people's project, behind the computer's screen of a very confortable and well established company.

I like that ! :clap:
It is a nice, constructive and positive attitude. :thumbup:
Something missing too often in this country...
Thank you Desert Rat !

[tolipanebas]

do you have any idea about what's the market demand around Liege Airport ?

I know one thing for sure:

All of the network carriers -both European as well as others- operating to BRU, DUS and/or LUX from their mega-hubs LHR, CDG, FRA, AMS, JFK, EWR, AUH, DXB, DOH etc must know the exact origin of all their connecting pax, yet none of them has ever felt the need to offer even a single daily flight to LGG in an attempt to better accomodate any connecting pax flows from the region in between Brussels, Dusseldorf and Luxembourg they might have, so it seems to me there isn't much demand from the wider area around Liege really.

In this context, it is interesting to note how KLM suspended its MST-AMS route a couple of years ago, for instance, and FWIW: that route was operated on F50!

Yet BoT thinks they can fill an A318 (or bigger) by feeding hubs of airlines that don't even see the need for a turboprop feed themselves????

Seems to me like somebody is overrating the importance of and the demand for air travel from his own region quite a bit: it wouldn't be the first time, you know?

[regi]

do you have any idea about what's the market demand around Liege Airport ?

In this context, it is interesting to note how KLM suspended its MST-AMS route a couple of years ago, for instance, and FWIW: that route was operated on F50!

Seems to me like somebody is overrating the importance of and the demand for air travel from his own region quite a bit: it wouldn't be the first time, you know?

I start to suspect that this is a hoax by the same ex member who defended a Q400NG flight Lille-Brussels.
If you look at the amount of reasonable replies on a weird idea, we see a comparison.
Am I the first one who sees this?

[Saint Ex]

All of the network carriers -both European as well as others- operating to BRU, DUS and/or LUX from their mega-hubs LHR, CDG, FRA, AMS, JFK, EWR, AUH, DXB, DOH etc must know the exact origin of all their connecting pax, yet none of them has ever felt the need to offer even a single daily flight to LGG in an attempt to better accomodate any connecting pax flows from the region in between Brussels, Dusseldorf and Luxembourg they might have, so it seems to me there isn't much demand from the wider area around Liege really.

So, if I well understand your reasoning, if Lufthansa does not make flight from Liège, it means that there is no demand for flights from Liège?

[Shanti]

Just wait and see. Lets hope, they can start from LGG to some destinations
and offer some people a good job!

[Acid-drop]

do you have any idea about what's the market demand around Liege Airport ?

Well, it all depend, so far they talked about the Euregio, 4 Millions people.
But within 2h drive, there is 40 millions people ... but they need a really good reason to drive and not choose any big hub around. Imo, only long-haul low cost can do that.

[tolipanebas]

All of the network carriers -both European as well as others- operating to BRU, DUS and/or LUX from their mega-hubs LHR, CDG, FRA, AMS, JFK, EWR, AUH, DXB, DOH etc must know the exact origin of all their connecting pax, yet none of them has ever felt the need to offer even a single daily flight to LGG in an attempt to better accomodate any connecting pax flows from the region in between Brussels, Dusseldorf and Luxembourg they might have, so it seems to me there isn't much demand from the wider area around Liege really.

So, if I well understand your reasoning, if Lufthansa does not make flight from Liège, it means that there is no demand for flights from Liège?

Who's talking about LH here?

LH will probably be the LAST airline to ever serve LGG, as they already cover the market around LGG very well through BRU and DUS.

I was thinking more of BA, AF, and in fact any other airline from around the globe that serves one of the larger airports around LGG, like DUS, BRU, FRA or to a lesser extend AMS and CDG...

Don't you think airlines know where their pax are coming from? Of course they know and you can bet your life they keep a good eye on it too so as to see if they need not adapt their network to the organic needs of their daily pax flows!

Yet, if not even the home carriers of hubs like LHR, CDG, or AMS, or airlines like EY, EK and QR which are all heavily slot restricted in nearby Germany seem to have pax flows from LGG (and immediate surroundings) important enough to justify a single daily flight, I'd seriously question anybody pretending he can feed hubs with pax from LGG on his own!

Does that mean BoT is stillborn? Not automatically, but it means I don't buy the idea of them being a feeder airline.

[an-148]

we are back to the point: if feeding, than inbound ....... for an (yet) unknown carrier .

[Saint Ex]

Hello Tolipanebas, :wave:

Airlines have access to statistics allowing them to know where the majority of their pax are coming from. Those statistics showing the movements of pax within a market area are available from different sources and are not only detained by airline’s commercial departments.

The reason why an airline does not serve an airport does not only depend on the absence of demand. It also depends on their ability to organize a competitive and profitable offer which satisfies a specific demand.

That’s why SN does not perform flights between Charleroi and Carcassone although Rayanair demonstrated that the demand, for lowcost flights at least, is strong.

It is not because there was no demand of flights between Maastricht area and Amsterdam that KLM stopped operating between MST and AMS. That’s because this FK50 offer was not adapted to the demand, which is by the way, according to the above mentioned statistics, still very strong between Euregio and the Amsterdam area.

For Wallonia, it was a political decision to develop passenger's transport only at Charleroi and freight as a priority at Liège. Today this decision seems a little bit outmoded.

[BeOnTop]

@an-148: concerning our strategy, I clearly prefer speakin' of "hub and spoke" instead of feeding, and especially "reverse hub and spoke" to specific directions ...

@Toplipanebas: air trafic will doubled all 15 years (Airbus projection), so why not consider that the airports capacity can never followed ... so why not LGG: open H24, ILS Cat3, longest runway, ...