BeOnTop Airlines - Liège Airport

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tolipanebas
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Re: BeOnTop Airlines - Liège Airport

Post by tolipanebas »

Acid-drop wrote:They want to be feeding up to 5 hubs in Europe to give up to 800 destinations, but they say feeding will not be their only goal.
So, they want to do feeding large hubs in Europe?

Not just 1, but 5?

Meaning they are most likely not going to be affiliated to an alliance or anything, but rather a stand alone project, trying to serve large oneworld hubs (MAD?, LHR?, good luck getting in BTW) as well as Skyteam hubs (CDG?, FCO?) and STAR hubs (FRA?, MUC?, ZRH?, VIE?) then.

I don't know if they realize, but just flying to a large hub alone isn't going to bring much traffic for a stand alone airline. Just looking at the huge traffic volume at those hubs and hoping to take a sufficiently large part of it to make money is naive when you have no commercial agreement with the home carrier whatsoever.

And offering 800 destinations?
Year right, as if any network carrier in an alliance is going to open up its network to BeOnTop just like that! :lol:

Good luck trying to get the right to officially feed STAR airlines for instance, with SN just next door at BRU and the German border (and thus DUS) even nearer by! The market in the area between BRU, DUS and LUX (where LGG sits) is perfectly coverered by STAR through SN, LH (and LX). Oh, and the same goes for Oneword actually as BA serves the same 3 airports regularly from LHR. Even Skyteam isn't going to jump of joy for being able to attract feed from LGG to CDG or FCO, I am sure.

Reality is alliance airlines with large networks aren't waiting for freeflowing feed, they want to be fed by partner airlines so they can offer a smooth travel experience and sell the ticket as one!
Best example is SN when they served FRA as stand alone. SN flew to FRA twice daily (LH had 7 or 8 flights) and despite SN having much low fares than LH, the load wasn't great on RJ85 because the thing is people going to a hub do so mainly to catch a (longhaul) flight and almost always have a connecting flight booked with it through a PARTNER AIRLINE from the carrier they will be flying from that hub! That's how alliances work these days: they will almost give the connector flight for free, so what incentive would people still have to book that flight seperately on another airline like BeOnTop?

Feeding European hubs is quite a naive idea, IMHO, driven by the illfated assumption that where there is volume there must be opportunity to take a piece of the market. Sadly, it isn't the case, as most of the traffic is already locked off commercially and what remains (the point-to-point pax) can be attracted really cheaply by the network carriers because they already have both the frequency and the capacity for their connections anyway and can thus price everybody off the route without suffering as much from it as the competitor which lives of those point-to-point pax alone!

As example, have a look at the BRU-FRA, BRU-ZRH or BRU-VIE routes.
After the take-over from SN by LH, the EU demanded that LH put available slots on those routes to competitors, but 2 years after date still nobody dared to step in and for a very good reason (which I've explained above), but hey, maybe BeOnTop thinks they will be the only ones not caught in a catch 22 and can make it work? I wish them luck. LH will eat them alive with a price offensive from BRU, DUS and LUX.

BeOnTop
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Re: BeOnTop Airlines - Liège Airport

Post by BeOnTop »

Hello Luchtzak

Indeed, it still a project, we're on work, and I hope that Luchtzack will cross out the name of the pilots on that forum (it should be detrimental) and I'll thanks them in advance.

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fretn
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Re: BeOnTop Airlines - Liège Airport

Post by fretn »

BeOnTop wrote:Hello Luchtzak

Indeed, it still a project, we're on work, and I hope that Luchtzack will cross out the name of the pilots on that forum (it should be detrimental) and I'll thanks them in advance.
No offense, but for someone who is supposed to be the representative of your company your language skills in english are really lacking... again fueling the thought that this guy has very little to do with beontop.

regi
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Re: BeOnTop Airlines - Liège Airport

Post by regi »

fretn wrote:
BeOnTop wrote:Hello Luchtzak

Indeed, it still a project, we're on work, and I hope that Luchtzack will cross out the name of the pilots on that forum (it should be detrimental) and I'll thanks them in advance.
No offense, but for someone who is supposed to be the representative of your company your language skills in english are really lacking... again fueling the thought that this guy has very little to do with beontop.
It is English, not english. :twisted:

Desert Rat
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Re: BeOnTop Airlines - Liège Airport

Post by Desert Rat »

I think it is a very very good start for BeOnTop...indeed,they occupy the top of the topic page for somedays now...They Are On Top...

liege-bierset
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Re: BeOnTop Airlines - Liège Airport

Post by liege-bierset »

Desert Rat wrote:"Qui satis expectat, prospera cuncta videt"

B.D.W.
"Bien dit Bouffi ! "

Acid-drop
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Re: BeOnTop Airlines - Liège Airport

Post by Acid-drop »

Why not be a feeder for TNT and also carry pax ?
It's then 2 source of revenue and would lover the price of the seats to attract passenger for the 1st year of service.
Does this kind of stuff already exist somewhere ?

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an-148
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Re: BeOnTop Airlines - Liège Airport

Post by an-148 »

Acid-drop wrote:Why not be a feeder for TNT and also carry pax ?
It's then 2 source of revenue and would lover the price of the seats to attract passenger for the 1st year of service.
Does this kind of stuff already exist somewhere ?
quite interresting !!

one thing has to be said: in matters of "communication", they are clever: they spread the news they will begin to operate flights, say even which kind of flights (feed) and nothing more: they let people build their own idea of what it could be !! as long as people are speaking of them, it's good (exactly like MOL who says he will carry standing people or have paying toilets, aso.......)

Nevihta
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Re: BeOnTop Airlines - Liège Airport

Post by Nevihta »

Acid-drop wrote:Why not be a feeder for TNT and also carry pax ?
??? TNT is giving back to lessors the only a/c able to carry passengers (B737QC), only a Ba146 left, and the A318 is not reputated for its cargo abilities...

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an-148
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Re: BeOnTop Airlines - Liège Airport

Post by an-148 »

Nevihta wrote:
Acid-drop wrote:Why not be a feeder for TNT and also carry pax ?
??? TNT is giving back to lessors the only a/c able to carry passengers (B737QC), only a Ba146 left, and the A318 is not reputated for its cargo abilities...

ok, but that means only that TNT seems not to be interrested to carry pax on its own airplanes..........
on the other hand, if they do have some destinations to be served on a (cargo)thin route, they could be faced with a dubble problem: not enought freight to operate an onlyfreight flight to that destination, even not with subcontractors small planes (F27 Miniliner, An-26 RAFAvia,...) and at the same moment a too long road distance from their closest regular destination: I guess it would suit them to have at their disposal the bellies of a new subcontractor ...... and the fact this company also flies passengers (on its own) doesn't disturb them at all........
about the cargo abilities: if I read good, BeOnTop wants to use both A318 and A319, the second one already offering more available space : its up to BeOnTop to choose the right plane for the right use !!!

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grnkg
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Re: BeOnTop Airlines - Liège Airport

Post by grnkg »

Nevihta wrote:
Acid-drop wrote:Why not be a feeder for TNT and also carry pax ?
??? TNT is giving back to lessors the only a/c able to carry passengers (B737QC), only a Ba146 left, and the A318 is not reputated for its cargo abilities...
I think Acid-drop meant to say:
be a feeder for TNT, meaning flying cargo for TNT at night
AND
also carry pax, for their own account during daytime

Kind regards,
GR.

PS: it has been done in the past: carry (small) parcels and mail in the pax cabin and bulk cargo in the lower holds. Special bags are installed on the pax seats to hold the mail an protect the seats. Not a common practice of course, as it takes a lot of manhours to load the a/c

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grnkg
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Re: BeOnTop Airlines - Liège Airport

Post by grnkg »

PPS: true that both B737-300QC aircraft will be phased-out, but we still have 2 BAe146-200QC!

cnc
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Re: BeOnTop Airlines - Liège Airport

Post by cnc »

grnkg wrote: I think Acid-drop meant to say:
be a feeder for TNT, meaning flying cargo for TNT at night
AND
also carry pax, for their own account during daytime
night time is normaly used for cleaning and maintenance if flights are during daytime. when will they do it if nighttime is used for cargo flights?

Nevihta
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Re: BeOnTop Airlines - Liège Airport

Post by Nevihta »

I find it "weak" to count on that kind of partnership with TNT to build up a business plan. That can be extra income, but not the principal source of income.

Desert Rat
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Re: BeOnTop Airlines - Liège Airport

Post by Desert Rat »

cnc wrote: night time is normaly used for cleaning and maintenance if flights are during daytime. when will they do it if nighttime is used for cargo flights?
An 318-319 doesn't need night time to be maintained, Daily check is done in 1h1/2 and weekly check needs 2 0r 3 hours, so the good old days where the A/C needed the night time to rig the valves on piston engines is long time gone!
Cleaning can be done during transit...the main reason why A/C's sit on the ground during night time is curfew and/or because business passengers don't travel between 00.00 and 05.00 in Europe.
Operating from an Airport without Curfew is a big advantage, I think...

Stij
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Re: BeOnTop Airlines - Liège Airport

Post by Stij »

Desert Rat wrote:
cnc wrote: night time is normaly used for cleaning and maintenance if flights are during daytime. when will they do it if nighttime is used for cargo flights?
An 318-319 doesn't need night time to be maintained, Daily check is done in 1h1/2 and weekly check needs 2 0r 3 hours, so the good old days where the A/C needed the night time to rig the valves on piston engines is long time gone!
Cleaning can be done during transit...the main reason why A/C's sit on the ground during night time is curfew and/or because business passengers don't travel between 00.00 and 05.00 in Europe.
Operating from an Airport without Curfew is a big advantage, I think...
And to absorb delays!

Cheers,

Stij

Shanti
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Re: BeOnTop Airlines - Liège Airport

Post by Shanti »

Still nothing official about BeOnTopAirlines?
Thanks.

cnc
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Re: BeOnTop Airlines - Liège Airport

Post by cnc »

Desert Rat wrote: Cleaning can be done during transit...
that is for cleaning during rotations, it also needs deep cleaning.
I remember that a deep cleaning for a 737-800 takes about 8 hours for a team of 4 cleaners
the A333's of SN are done with 3 or 4 teams
its not done every day but if you want to keep the a/c clean a quick cleaning of 30min is not enough

a380bigbeast
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Re: BeOnTop Airlines - Liège Airport

Post by a380bigbeast »

Shanti wrote:Still nothing official about BeOnTopAirlines?
Thanks.
Maybe some news from Mister "BeOnTop Start-Point Manager"???

BeOnTop
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Re: BeOnTop Airlines - Liège Airport

Post by BeOnTop »

Indeed, my english is quite poor, but when your based in Liège,il est préférable de connaître les langues du coins... Français, Allemand, Néerlandais, limbourgeois, plat deutch, wallon, luxembourgeois, surtout si on souhaite y développer qq chose, donc je laisse aux ops le soin de communiquer en anglais. Et comme c'est une compagnie francophone qui va s'installer je vais continuer en français, par respect pour la future clientèle ... :lol:

En ce qui concerne le nom de la compagnie, la personne qui suggère que BeOnTop ressemble a une marque de poudre a lessiver m'a fait plaisir: c'est une excellente chose d'être comparé à des marques aussi puissantes que celles de Procter et Gamble ou sa concurence...

Aujourd'hui un scoop: les premières idées penchaient pour le nom de la compagnie à LLL comme Liège Luik Lüttich, car en français on entends le mot aile, mais en anglais ça donne ale (pintje).

Une autre proposition était Jupill'air ... mais seuls les afficionados auraient compris ...
Donc dans un premier temps on se contentera du co-branding BeOnTop Airlines ...

Pour les couleurs de BeOnTop, je vous renvoient au Test des couleurs de Max Lüscher qui associe deux couleurs qui vont susciter une certaine agressivité par contraste ...

Enfin une suggestion greenwashing nous proposaient BeOtop ...

A bientôt ...

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