Chinese J20 prototype

[regi]

The first pictures of the Chinese J-20 so called stealth fighter.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/ja ... tary-power

[SpottairBRU]

Well, political view put aside, I like the look of this plane: it seems to be different from what we know, yet with some "déjà vu" feelings. More pictures can be found here.

[cathay belgium]

looks like the F22 raptor and the TSR2 finally made a little baby !
what a -big- plane,looks it sure has enough thrust..

CX-B

[Captain Remi]

Strange...
On the pic it looks as if the entire V-shaped tail flexes as a stabilo/ rudder. Really no clue why such huge surface should flex entirely, on a plane capable of enormous speeds...
Full flexing tails are to be found occassionally on slow speed planes, such as STOL rugged ultralights or similar planes (for instance Zenith's CH701). But this really puzzles me. I wonder how that would react if it would flex fully at high speed. It is almost an airbrake then :s
Or is this some kind of parking mode and are smaller size rudders fitted to this V-shape? I can't tell by the pictures.

[regi]

Strange...
On the pic it looks as if the entire V-shaped tail flexes as a stabilo/ rudder. Really no clue why such huge surface should flex entirely, on a plane capable of enormous speeds...
Full flexing tails are to be found occassionally on slow speed planes, such as STOL rugged ultralights or similar planes (for instance Zenith's CH701). But this really puzzles me. I wonder how that would react if it would flex fully at high speed. It is almost an airbrake then :s
Or is this some kind of parking mode and are smaller size rudders fitted to this V-shape? I can't tell by the pictures.

I thought the same. It can be used as an air brake but also could allow strange maneuvers.
So it seems to be another solution than canards and thrust vectoring of the Russian Sukhoi-33.
But I don't think that the pilot ( or the computer ) will allow such a wide angle at Mach 2
This airplane fits exactly in the strategy of the Chinese to keep the US forces away from Taiwan. My guess is that they will continue on such a level that within 10-15 years the Chinese will simply say to the world: " Look guys, we enter Taiwan tomorrow. We know it will cost us a lot but you cannot win. So let's not fight about it and continue business as usual."

[regi]

seems that the US isn't that concerned.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12125566

[DeltaWiskey]

It looks like it has a canard, main wing and tailplane (!). And an all moving vertical fin. Certainly some remarkable design features there.
I don't think the idea of the all moving fin is that strange though, it is more stable around the speed of sound. Most airliners do have all moving tailplanes for this reason.

[Captain Remi]

Indeed regi, very strange...
Imagine flexing it fully at mach 2 and your plane will certainly become invisble for the radar (that is because it will become defragmented into tiny exploded pieces hahaha).

@deltawhiskey => euhm... which airliner has a full flexing vertical fin?? I cannot come up with a single one and you wrote that most have...?

[smokejumper]

My take on the J-20?

I do not believe this plane represents any threat to anyone in the near future, since:

1. It has not flown yet; taxi tests are just starting.
2. It appears to have a canard plus the main wing. While possibly good for maneuverability, it hurts stealth.
3. It is apparently a plane that is larger than comparable fighters which (by extension) adversely affects stealth. Even with stealth features, a larger plane presents a larger radar cross-section.
4. Chinese engines have proven to be less efficient than western engines and the larger size may point to the need for larger fuel capacity, hence aircraft size. Also a larger engine is required to haul the larger, heavier aircraft and this means more fuel burn.
5. Stealth is not the only Holy Grail; electronic systems are also very important. How mature are Chinese electronic systems and how long will they take to fully mature?
6. It took 15 years from first flight of the prototype (YF-22) in 1990, to first flight of the F-22 in 1997, to the entry into operational service in 2005. Can China do better?

I think (assuming the J-20 actually makes it into service) that it will be 10+ years until service entry, and then we can only guess its capabilities.

[DeltaWiskey]

@Capt Remi: I did not write that. A vertical fin and the tailplane are two different things...

[Captain Remi]

@deltawhiskey, I'm sorry, indeed misread, but still, don't know any airliners either with full moving tailplanes... It is comon on fighter aircraft (F16 is a clear example). May'be you meant that then...

[DeltaWiskey]

Most airliners do have an all moving tailplane which is adjusted by the trim. The L1011 is an exception is that is controlled by yoke.

eg on a ERJ170

[Captain Remi]

Point taken, I now exactly see what you mean... I wrongfully thought you meant that the whole surface would be a moving one, without elevators being fitted but acting as a full one (I was thinking of the F16 for instance, or the Chinese plane in this tread and thought you meant the exact same on an airliner which would have been strange).
Your picture is indeed proving your point. thanks

[NimbusFlyer]

Really no clue why such huge surface should flex entirely...

It is not uncommon, the SR71 Blackbird had it as well to counter one engine high thrust, especially for single engine operations with afterburner at low speed. Watch from 0:36 till 1:06 http://youtu.be/aV82gbriMc8

[Captain Remi]

Thanks for sharing! That is indeed great material. I was really astonished when looking at it.
Thanks again. Best regards, Capt. R.

[earthman]

I still think that the SR71 is the coolest plane ever made.

[regi]

I still think that the SR71 is the coolest plane ever made.

sure it is.
But looking back at its history, it is difficult to asses the impact it had. Return on investment . It had plenty of extremely expensive new features that were not used anymore in the next developments.
Quite interesting about the USAF future programs is that with the anouncement of the huge defence budget cuts, the development of the new strategic nuclear bomber is saved from the cuts. But does the USAF not have the B-52, B1 and B2 in active duty?
Coming back to your remark about the SR-71, I think that this 50 year old design would be a good starting point to launch a new system with weapon capability ( the Blackbird had no weapons ). Build with the knowledge of today. ( computers, metallurgy, stealth, different theatres )
Reality has shown that stealth doesn't exist against the real military powers. But what the existing bombers lack is speed. Where the SR-71 could cruise on > 3 Mach, the theoretical speed could be around Mach 6. Try to stop that on 80,000 feet. Just an idea.

[earthman]

I thought all major military players have plenty of radars that can actually detect stealth airplanes, whether by using a different frequency or by using passive radar systems, and the whole benefit of stealth was simply that targeting systems could not find/lock on to the plane?

Tomorrow on wikileaks: how Lockheed coaxed China to show a pre-pre-pre-prototype stealth plane to create a reson for the US to restart production and sales of the F-22 Raptor?

[regi]

I thought all major military players have plenty of radars that can actually detect stealth airplanes, whether by using a different frequency or by using passive radar systems, and the whole benefit of stealth was simply that targeting systems could not find/lock on to the plane?

Tomorrow on wikileaks: how Lockheed coaxed China to show a pre-pre-pre-prototype stealth plane to create a reson for the US to restart production and sales of the F-22 Raptor?

Should be a joke, but I would not be surprised that it is reality. The existance of the pictures, which were widely shown in Chinese state controled press, says enough. Could be mock up as well. Let us wait untill the next airshow at Dubai

[Captain Remi]

NEWSFLASH on flightglobal site. It is claimed that the J20 made its maiden flight.
Article does show in flight pics.

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/20 ... light.html

We now need to wonder what the capabilities of the plane are. It is not the first time the Chinese would make something that has the appearance of something else. Meaning, it doesn't mean because it looks like a 5th generation fighter, that it actually has all of these capabilities...