No more deicing fluid at Brussels Airport

[RoMax]

The situation at Brussels Airport not as bad as expected. Brussels Airlines expects to operate the biggest part of its network. Tonight allmost all flights are able to be operated, flights wich are not operated don't have anything to do with the de icing fluid problems normally. Flightcare aperently has found some de icing fluid, also the cancellations of other airlines (airlines wich cancelled flights to BRU to make sure that their aircraft don't get stuck at BRU) makes the reserves of deicing fluid bigger (or actually don't make it smaller).
Tomorrow SN hopes to operate the biggest part of their flights. Flights to AFI get absolute priority and will be operated without any problem. SN can not promisse that all European flights will be operated, it will depend on the amount of deicing fluid tomorrow. But they hope to operate a big part of the network. Also other airlines let Brussels Airport know that they will operate to BRU tomorrow if possible.

Brussels Airport also makes clear that the big amount of wide bodys diverted from LHR made it a reall problem. Without all these diverted flights they would have had (almost) enough reserve until new deicing fluid could be delivered. BRU also says that the deicing fluid reserves are not their responsability, but the handling companies are responsible for that. BRU had a big reserve of deicing fluid, but the LHR diversions and the severe weather conditions wich disrupted new deliveries made it a real problem.

http://knack.rnews.be/nl/actualiteit/be ... 843606.htm
http://www.hln.be/hln/nl/1901/reisnieuw ... ntem.dhtml
I know it's HLN, not the best source.

[Bralo20]

So what that all about?

First they ask to close the airport due lack of Glycol and when it was denied suddently they have enough of the product?

Magic, you got to love it

[cnc]

we'll find out tomorrow

[tolipanebas]

Brussels Airport also makes clear that the big amount of wide bodys diverted from LHR made it a real problem. Without all these diverted flights they would have had (almost) enough reserve until new deicing fluid could be delivered.

Which is basically what I have been saying too this afternoon.

This night and morning quite a few widebodies on diversion from LHR to BRU were de-iced prior to their ferry flight out, while the quantities of fluid were already fairly limited and most probably not sufficient to cope with the WX outlook for the next few days.... Maybe it's just me, but I think all BRU-based airlines should be really outrageous for seeing wasted precious liquids on those occasional visitors.

it may sound somewhat protective, but I genuinely feel home based carriers should always get priority, especially over occasional visitors and diverted flights as otherwise there can be some serious consequences from being too fair and work purely on a first come first serve basis, consequences which can reach far beyond just some additional delays: halting an international airport and thus hurting its economy for instance!

[sn26567]

Information from BAC: We just got last-minute information from our handlers that they succeeded to get enough de-icing liquids to de-ice most of the departing airplanes tomorrow.

It was premature, in my opinion, to alert passengers too early while negotiations with suppliers were still ongoing.

[suppie]

I don't get/understand the whole discusion about the fact there is no deicing fluid, atleast as fas as I understand the trucks can't reach Brussels due to the weather enroute??
If this is the case we in Amsterdam had the same 2/3 years ago and police excorts were arranged to guide the trucks to the airport

[RoMax]

The producer of the deicing fluid is Apax, situated near Paris as earlier said. Many other airports wich has to get deicing fluid from Apax have problems with their reserves too. The suppliers of Apax were not always able to reach the company in wich resulted that Apax couldn't produce enough deicing fluid. But the produced deicing fluid couldn't get away as their trucks are not allowed to drive in France, so they are stuck in Paris.
The reserves of Aviapartner and Flightcare were very small yesterday, but they got new deicing fluid. Aviapartner for exemple got a load of trucks from other airports where they are active. They expect 150 000 liters of Glycol, a big part already arrived last night and the rest will arrive today.

http://www.standaard.be/artikel/detail. ... bsection=3

[luchtzak]

First flights are taking off !

[Air2D2]

On the website of thomas cook I can read the following:

De vliegtuigen van Thomas Cook Airlines die morgen vanuit Brussel moeten vertrekken, staan ’s nachts in een hangar waardoor er geen de-icing nodig is. Deze vluchten zullen dus zonder veel problemen kunnen vertrekken.

Translation: The airplanes of FQ that need to depart tomorrow morning from BRU will stay in a hangar this night, such that they won't need any de-icing tomorrow.
I didn't know FQ has that capacity. Which hangars are they using? (probably they won't park all 7 planes in a hangar) Is this action enough to avoid de-icing?

As far as I know, Thomas Cook Airlines has 1 flight today, with 1 aircraft...

[tolipanebas]

From what I've picked up (through top secret sources, not even available on wikileaks, so take note NCB... ), the new supplies have come in from Germany this night (iso from France as usual) as it became clear it could take days more before the French could deliver!

[euroflyer]

juts on a sidenote, others have their problems once again as well: FRA is completely closed for the moment because of 'unexpected snow' And indeed we had again another 10cm here early this morning ...

[sn26567]

Jetairfly will operate the 7 flights programmed for today, inasfar as the destination airports will be open and able to supply deicing fluids if needed.

[sn26567]

Information from BAC: We just got last-minute information from our handlers that they succeeded to get enough de-icing liquids to de-ice most of the departing airplanes tomorrow.

It was premature, in my opinion, to alert passengers too early while negotiations with suppliers were still ongoing.

The announcement that deicing fluid was available came too late. Meanwhile some American operators already cancelled their flights: United from Washington and United from Chicago, American from Chicago and American from New York, Continental from Newark, USAirways from Philadelphia, Delta from Atlanta and Delta from New York are all cancelled. Only the Jet Airways flights from North America were maintained.

That all means lost revenues and possible lawsuits or financial claims against BAC.

[teddybAIR]

That all means lost revenues and possible lawsuits or financial claims against BAC.

This is becoming a bad habbit: everytime wheather disturbes opperations, the company that is actually affected by the consequences of this wheather is faced with financial claims. If the de-icing fluid is that critical, then why don't the operators store their own emergency reserves?

And why file a claim against BAC, they don't influence a truck ban issued by a French minsiter of transport, to they? Ok, they could implement dual or multi-sourcing to reduce the risk, but you'll never fully eliminate the risk of rupture and to be honest: people are not willing to pay for the additional cost of having that 100% guarantee as it would result in higher handling fees and thus higher operating costs for the airline which ultimately culminate in higher ticket prices.

Bottom line: it is a simple consequence of the economic choices we make collectively!

[Nevihta]

did BAC made this announcement to put pressure on handlers to make sure they react ?
If this is the case, they only get the results...

[regi]

Just a price matter. If you would like to have 200 T of glycol tomorrow afternoon delivered, you make 2 phonecalls: one to the supplier and another to your financial director that he has to approve the immediate money transfer towards the supplier.
It is such a common product that it is widely available.
Interesting remark about the Munich recycling activity. Such operation would require huge investment in the form of collecting, filtering, storing etc. A huge investment for a situation that is very rare at Brussels.
By the way, because of airport problems in other European countries, it has little use to keep Brussels open.
quote]

You really doesn't have a clue how this (de-icing,supply,...) works.
I't aint that simple a'm affraid.

That is true, I have no experience in it. ( maybe I am now one of the few ones who admits to chat about a subject without deep knowledge ) I spoke as a supplier in the industry where my recent experiences have shown each time again that demanded product is available, just depending on what you are prepared to pay for.
And what did the reality show? That they got fluid from Germany instead of from France. ( but at which cost?) And our dear secretary of state Schouppe of transport is angry because of the canceled flights - because it should not have happened.
Just an idea: if the product ( if it was the same one ) was still largely available at Liège and Charleroi, could Schouppe not have enforced the transfer of it to Brussels for the sake of the nation?
Question Jake99: did you refer to my lack of knowledge about the supply of glycol or to the recycling of the product ? The first case seems ( ) to be solved, the latter I am interested to know more about it. Can you inform or give a lead to where we can read it- German language is fine.

[regi]

Just a price matter. If you would like to have 200 T of glycol tomorrow afternoon delivered, you make 2 phonecalls: one to the supplier and another to your financial director that he has to approve the immediate money transfer towards the supplier

Unfortunately sometimes money doesn't buy everything... For instance I've been calling arround Europe to have 50 to 100 tons of road salt delivered regardless of the costs... Did I receive even a single grain of salt? Nothing... Even the 40 tonnes ordered before the temperatures dropped they haven't delivered...

With full respect to your job, but as I have said: just a matter of price. Just to give a rather ludicrous solution: get it by air freight. Oh no, that is not affordable ! You see, matter of price.
But more realistic is why you order just now some lorry loads of road salt. The answer is: your boss didn't allow you to build up more stock this year because of ...money.
As a private person, I bought my road salt 3 months ago, a big stack. I am giving it now to the neighbours who are out of supply already ( when they asked to pay for it I showed them the harsh direction : no, you go buy the bags when they are available again, and get enough for next year )
Simple advice: can't you get road salt transported by train from the salt fields of Marseille?

[tolipanebas]

Wild rumours have it that it was just flightcare who was about to run out of de-icing fluid and immediately decided to spread the bad news in an effort to force urgent action from the Belgian government to help them out or alternatively to make sure there would be no negative commercial consequences for them: a kind of provoced general force majeur so to say, only to hide the fact that one handler messed up again...

I find it hard to believe, but if true indeed, it is another straw on the back of the already heavily loaded camel and SN should even more urgently consider setting up self-handling activities at BRU as this is another proof of flightcare not being up to the job of handling a large network carrier efficiently and reliably.

As I've said, nothing but a wild rumour though....

[regi]

Wild rumours have it that it was just flightcare who was about to run out of de-icing fluid and immediately decided to spread the bad news in an effort to force urgent action from the Belgian government to help them out or alternatively to make sure there would be no negative commercial consequences for them: a kind of provoced general force majeur so to say, only to hide the fact that one handler messed up again...

I find it hard to believe, but if true indeed, it is another straw on the back of the already heavily loaded camel and SN should even more urgently consider setting up self-handling activities at BRU as this is another proof of flightcare not being up to the job of handling a large network carrier efficiently and reliably.

As I've said, nothing but a wild rumour though....

Is Flightcare the same company who employed the arrested luggage handlers for cocain smuggling?
If so, a big blame to the managment: Instead of preparing its activities for bad weather and screening + controlling their personnel they were ... euh...playing Tetris?

[suppie]

If there is a truck restriction in France...WHY don,t I read anywhere that the French airports r running our of Deicing Fluid??
If Flightcare did spread the news to put pressure on the goverment I give them a big applause as it seems to work.
Like I said in my previous post examptions for truck restrictions can always be made in case of emergency