Registration SN3811 BRU-OPO 20 Dec: Is disclosure a risk?

[bxleu]

Hi there,

Would anyone know what's the aircraft performing SN 3811 BRU-OPO this Monday 20 Dec?
Which leg will it do before SN 3811?

Many thanks!

[NCB]

You're probably worried for winter weather related delays, but you're asking for security and safety sensitive information. If anyone provides you with such information, he/she should be reported.

Most SN flights are leaving with 15 to 90 minutes delay, keep that in mind and you should be fine. If you want more information, contact SN's Customer Contact Centre: tel:+32 2 723 23 62
Take some sandwiches with you, just in case things get worse and the situation could deteriorate into Monday.

Keep in mind that the airlines, airports and their staff are as much victims of this cold weather as you are.

BRU can be praised for the huge efforts put into keeping the airport operational and the Red Cross for the care they are providing to stranded passengers.

[bxleu]

You probably misunderstood my question, I'm not asking for confidential information, just wanted to know what's the aircraft I'm going to fly in, that's all...

haven't made any question or comment about weather/airport/staff...

[NCB]

I find that there is no problem with asking the reg for a past flight, but for a flight in the future it's different.
Sleep one night and you'll know

[cathay belgium]

@NCB :

This sort of question comes regular at this forum so by me !
If this is a problem for you for safety reasons I guess there's a bigger problem
in the company ...
If a company has a problem with safety checks after this simple info was given...
Damn..
I guess terrorists has better info sources than 'luchtzak.be' ..

I find that there is no problem with asking the reg for a past flight, but for a flight in the future it's different.
Sleep one night and you'll know

Think you better have more sleep so you're less paranoid before you reply..

CX-B

If you don't agree NCB, give me/us your toughts what danger this reg. could involve for pax..
Quite curious about it really..
Think I gonna have a big laugh in next hours...

[regi]

You're probably worried for winter weather related delays, but you're asking for security and safety sensitive information. If anyone provides you with such information, he/she should be reported.

Is this an official guideline about reporting private people who tell in advance the reg. nr. of a particular flight?
If it is official, it is public. Please show us the guideline.

[NCB]

Cathay, I don't feel the urge to give you examples of security risks that you are not aware of.

There is a big difference between asking the reg of a past flight and one of a future flight.

There is a world of difference between:
"Where was pres. Obama yesterday at 10pm", and
"where will pres. Obama be tomorrow at 10pm".

If you find this funny, see publicly available video:



From the moment you are asking for a future flight, you are asking for security intelligence.
If you find that it's a joke that can be taken lightly, you are very mistaken.

[hvs89]

I absolutely don't understand the purpose of those queries... Will your life be so much different by getting the registration a few hours before being into the plane? I'm still looking for an explanation... But perhaps you'll teach me sthg, I'm rather curious about it.

@NCB
I get something interesting for you, the reg of both planes Obama will use in the following months: 82-8000 & 92-9000. But please, be silent about it Joke

[NCB]

Is this an official guideline about reporting private people who tell in advance the reg. nr. of a particular flight?

From the moment the info comes from inside, the source is no longer a "private people" but an indiscretion by an employee of a company.
Yes, Mr. regi there are guidelines that are often breached here, which refrain employees from posting operational, commercial and other company information to the media, for the sake of safety, security and commercial/competitive reasons, unless they are publicly published.

It's nice for some people to be willing to share information, but you can only do damage to yourself, your colleagues and your company by doing so, without any merits in return.

It doesn't make a difference in the world to know in advance what airplane one is going to be on. Even less to know what flight it will be operating before.

The poster bxleu probably doesn't have bad intentions but you don't want people with less good intentions to take advantage of the helpfulness of some loose mouthes.

Cathay, you should be thankful that there's people taking your security as traveler seriously.

[regi]

not good enough NCB, you did not provide the guideline. The paragraph nr. of a specific legislation would be fine enough.
A Youtube movie about a foreign airport isn't good as answer.

[cathay belgium]

Hi,

Cathay, I don't feel the urge to give you examples of security risks that you are not aware of.

Yeah,I'm stupid I know !
But you can't explain me WHY a reg. in advance will increase security risks..
I just say : if the reg. giving in advance will increase the risk there must be a BIG
mistake-fault in YOUR security rules/actions...

A movie of a Dutch fake bomb treat didn't give me a reason concerning this issue..

I'm well aware of security risks and I know/follow the rules but I don't see the risk of a reg. number in advance..
Maybe a point; this year I travelled -without knowing- with a sharp knife !!
I passed BRU security scans ,travelled with in hand-luggage in cabin and came out SXF with no problem..
The Berlin SXF security detected it and I gave it away voluntary ( altough it was a nice meat cutting knife )..
but hey I didn't know the reg in advance.. ( easyjet )

From the moment you are asking for a future flight, you are asking for security intelligence.
If you find that it's a joke that can be taken lightly, you are very mistaken.

I think this a bit over the top my friend.. ( a reg. ! )

I absolutely don't understand the purpose of those queries...

a special habit of not so frequent air-enthousiasts..
nice to look up liveries,data facts in advance.. nothing treating..

Will your life be so much different by getting the registration a few hours before being into the plane?

No, just a bit more fun before actually flying..

Cathay, you should be thankful that there's people taking your security as traveler seriously.

Hi, I am but I have my serious doubts about it as I CAN still fly with a knife but without knowing the reg in advance..

You're making a lot of buzz but maybe you can answer why the reg. in advance IS a safety risk..
If I'm a terrorist I do will infiltrate/act with BRU AIRPORT/SN/SECUREX personnel..or
I buy a rocket launcher on the black-market and will join Steenokkerzeel spotting areas..
but a reg in advance .. sorry not on my mind..
There are better ways to deal with safety risks as a terrorist..

But I think you have a better idea that we all can understand I will say 'shoot'..

Cathay, I don't feel the urge to give you examples of security risks that you are not aware of.

Try again .. you gave us already your full stories about flying A319 to AFI, Dash 8 for SN,
flying catering over AFI, I think I will/can follow your ideas on this one..

Moderator, please split up this topic as I won't hostage this topic ..
' RISKS INVOLVING A FLIGHT REG '.
THX already SN .. André?

CX-B

[cathay belgium]

SN/Luchtzak,

THX to splitting up this topic,
please copy/past last posts to this topic..

Nice to debate with this snowy weather ..

CX-B

You act while I was typing..

[NCB]

I think that it's obvious and has been demonstrated in AMS very well.

Airline staff are binded by their arbeidsreglement/reglement de travail not to share non-public information. Suspicious activity relating to the security of aircraft is to be reported to airport security and/or the federal police. If they believe that there is a risk, a tip to toe search of the aircraft will be done.
Yes, the ones you read about in the news!

It's also illegal to post information received from ACARS or any other airband frequency on a website because of secrecy of telecommunication, as written in the International Convention of Telecommunication and BIPT regulation. It's illegal to use an ACARS receiver without a license for both the user and the station in the first place.
That's why every aircraft has a radio station license in Belgium and why every user needs a radio license.
On receiving a radio license, you agree to the regulation on secrecy of telecommunication laid down by the IBPT. You are not to use a radio for any purpose other than operational reasons that require you to use the radio.
Just because it's done so freely, doesn't mean that it's legal.
It really only becomes a problem when something bad happens. And when that happens, don't ask yourself why the federal police is knocking on your door to arrest you as an accomplice for terrorists.

About security at BRU, if there are risks, the last thing to do is to publish them here!

I think that the risks are very small if the reg is known when the time frame is short.
But 24 hours in advance is just too much, it gives too much time to prepare.

Mr. Cathay, you have a point, not all risks can be factored out. But it's a matter of responsibilities.
By giving away a reg, one can become an accomplice to a horrible act, and I don't wish any aviation staff/fan to get into that position.

[cathay belgium]

@NCB

What is all of your reply gotta do with a REGISTRATION number of a flight.

We don't talk about radios,ACARS,licences,working rules,..

AGAIN : WHATS THE TREAT/RISK OF KNOWING A REG IN ADVANCE..
As an SN employee knowing the rules of aviation so well GIVE US the main rule, the risk
instead of your meaningless replies of a telecommunication,blablaaa

About security at BRU, if there are risks, the last thing is for someone to publish them here!!!

This is a VERY GOOD forum concerning these problems,the same as your fake bombs video I must say..
Maybe once they can learn to act/react to improve REAL security risks ..
And BTW I have 1 very good reason to publish MY own experiences on the net :
FREEDOM OF SPEECH , very nice to defend also ..
What's the difference of an aviation-site, a café, an airport cantine, DAG-ALLEMAAL?? NONE !

So NCB please reply ON-TOPIC, regs of future flights,the risks..
Defend-Argue your statement and convince us of your right.

I must say I'm curious about the meaning of other members... ( tolepanebas-JAF-.. )

CX-B

[sn26567]

Moderator, please split up this topic as I won't hostage this topic ..
' RISKS INVOLVING A FLIGHT REG '.
THX already SN .. André?

Reading this thread and its title, I thought exactly the same. But since the title and the initial post gives only one question and the thread doesn't give an answer, I'll just change the title.

[NCB]

I'll add one last thing.
Many politicians fly to/from BRU on a regular basis. That gives all staff at BRU one reason to be extra alert with this kind of information requests targeting particular flights.

It's just not understandable that someone wants to know the aircraft they're going to fly on, let alone where it will fly to before it executes the said flight. What's the point of that. WOW, I'm going to fly on OO-AAA!!

It's understandable if it's to ask between OO-TUC/OO-JAP when the choice is limited between two aircraft and one of both is particularly infamous.

Don't get me wrong though, I'm also strongly opposed to TSA's paranoia and their full body scanners drama.

As to the original poster, I don't think that he's got bad intentions, but I won't bet my freedom on that.
I wish I could help you dear bxleu and I also wished we live in a world without evil.

[earthman]

When an airline has just one plane this information is known in advance. How does this become a security issue when an airline has 2 or more planes? How about an LCC, which have low frequency schedules, short turnaround times, and dozens of bases which are home to just a few planes each: looking at the schedule it is often trivial to figure out what the preceding flights of the plane will be, and I'm sure its often also possible to figure out what the most likely reg will be.

And if you feel the urge to harm some politician, there are easier ways than some concocted scheme involving doing something to the exact plane at the remote airport of it's previous flight. Especially during such harsh weather conditions where the actual plane might get substituted because of the original plane being delayed.

[regi]

It seems that one member here has no clue about aviation enthusiasts, for example the people who stand for hours in the cold with expensive equipment to take that one shot of an airplane to fill their album.
Other enthusiasts like to know before their flight which aircraft it will be. And yes, this is sometimes related to the fact that there are some very big differences in airplanes, even of the same type, at the same airline.
See my ordeal with Etihad and Conncections, where I was paying to get the luxury seats, but the 2 leased airplanes with those seats disappeared from Etihad and gone were my luxury seats.
Qantas passengers do have understandable reasons which aircraft they will fly.
Same as with passengers of Egypt Airlines: it is also nice to know if you will fly 4 hours in a narrow body to Africa or a wide body.
And as a regular SN passenger I do like to know if I will fly really SN, or a partner, and which aircraft it will be. One good reason: my trolley is exactly at the size limits. It makes a difference stowing it away in a BAE, B737 or A319.
But no, this is hush hush. According a non existing regulation ( we had enough patience after asking several times, but the facts were not given because not existant )

[Calisto]

Good day all!

What a fuzz...?!

I am a 737 pilot in a Belgian Airline and I CAN understand that somebody wants to know the registration of the aircraft he will be flying. Aviation is for a lot of people a dream and it's nice to look at the aircraft you will be flying...as a kid I always did too!

And even more...I go and see every night before a flight which aircraft I will be flying...just nice to know...and I can tell you...every aircraft is different and different to fly!

@NCB...your posts are ridiculous and there isn't any problem of knowing the registration for passengers...it has NOTHING to do with safety!

Have a nice flight!

[airazurxtror]

From the moment you are asking for a future flight, you are asking for security intelligence.
If you find that it's a joke that can be taken lightly, you are very mistaken.

These symptoms point right to acute paranoïa.