Furious Ryanair passengers refuse to leave plane at Liege

[sean1982]

The F/D door was indeed left unlocked. The crew HAD to leave the aircraft because ryanair feared for their safety and the police refused to intervene. To me this goes beyond all imagination, the aircraft was offically declared hijacked, the passengers were plundering the bar, breaking the seals. If crew try to stop them they got: "Je te frappe sur ta geule!" and the belgian police just stands there and does nothing ????? maybe I'm too simple but that goes beyond all reasoning to me :-s

[andorra-airport]

I think the crew knew when departing Fes that there was a risk that Beauvais would be closed.

That was what I was thinking. A pilot (captain) should know about those things , before heading to an airport, no ?!

[regi]

The F/D door was indeed left unlocked. The crew HAD to leave the aircraft because ryanair feared for their safety and the police refused to intervene. To me this goes beyond all imagination, the aircraft was offically declared hijacked, the passengers were plundering the bar, breaking the seals. If crew try to stop them they got: "Je te frappe sur ta geule!" and the belgian police just stands there and does nothing ????? maybe I'm too simple but that goes beyond all reasoning to me :-s

I can not imagine that the responsables of Ryanair were not aware about the closure of Beauvais .
So they knew it in advance, flew them to Bierset without warning the passengers before departure that this would happen. Sounds as kidnapping passengers. Not as a good service.
Why should Belgian police act on foreign soil ? ( i.e. a foreign based airplane ?)

[Stij]

The F/D door was indeed left unlocked. The crew HAD to leave the aircraft because ryanair feared for their safety and the police refused to intervene. To me this goes beyond all imagination, the aircraft was offically declared hijacked, the passengers were plundering the bar, breaking the seals. If crew try to stop them they got: "Je te frappe sur ta geule!" and the belgian police just stands there and does nothing ????? maybe I'm too simple but that goes beyond all reasoning to me :-s

Well, Sean, of course that's beyond imagination, but when you treat people like cattle they could start behaving like cattle. When an airliner decides to divert to an airport 4 hours away when there's one an hour away just to save a few bucks, they shouldn't be surprised that some pax revolt and feel hijacked themselves.

Furthermore I don't see why our Belgian taxpayers money should be spent on the police force evacuating a plane that's being "hijacked" because some Irish company decides to save a few bucks by not helping their pax in the least inconvenient way they could. The intervention of the police force probably already costed more then Ryanair's saving last night.

And maybe, just maybe the police didn't intervene because they considered it safer to just let them cool down instead of evacuating the plane "manu militare" with the risk of not just the bar cart being torn apart, but the complete plane.

I don't approve of the behaviour of the pax, but even less of the behaviour of Ryanair and the crew. When pax buy a ticket to Beauvais and that airport is closed, you drop them of at the nearest airport where you can drop them of, not 4 hours away. And when the crew isn't capable of handling the pax, the crew shouldn't have been working on an airplane in the first place.

And one more thing: who cares that "the passengers were plundering the bar, breaking the seals". I thnk compared to the inconvenience caused by Ryanair to the pax of 4 aircraft and the whole aftermath, only a really cynical beancounter with a bad attitude cares about the bar. "Oh no, 10 scartch tickets and 4 baggies are gone and they didn't pay"!!! Call the police!!!"

Cheers mate,

Stij

[regi]

The F/D door was indeed left unlocked. The crew HAD to leave the aircraft because ryanair feared for their safety and the police refused to intervene. To me this goes beyond all imagination, the aircraft was offically declared hijacked, the passengers were plundering the bar, breaking the seals. If crew try to stop them they got: "Je te frappe sur ta geule!" and the belgian police just stands there and does nothing ????? maybe I'm too simple but that goes beyond all reasoning to me :-s

Well, Sean, of course that's beyond imagination, but when you treat people like cattle they could start behaving like cattle. When an airliner decides to divert to an airport 4 hours away when there's one an hour away just to save a few bucks, they shouldn't be surprised that some pax revolt and feel hijacked themselves.

Furthermore I don't see why our Belgian taxpayers money should be spent on the police force evacuating a plane that's being "hijacked" because some Irish company decides to save a few bucks by not helping their pax in the least inconvenient way they could. The intervention of the police force probably already costed more then Ryanair's saving last night.

And maybe, just maybe the police didn't intervene because they considered it safer to just let them cool down instead of evacuating the plane "manu militare" with the risk of not just the bar cart being torn apart, but the complete plane.

I don't approve of the behaviour of the pax, but even less of the behaviour of Ryanair and the crew. When pax buy a ticket to Beauvais and that airport is closed, you drop them of at the nearest airport where you can drop them of, not 4 hours away. And when the crew isn't capable of handling the pax, the crew shouldn't have been working on an airplane in the first place.

And one more thing: who cares that "the passengers were plundering the bar, breaking the seals". I thnk compared to the inconvenience caused by Ryanair to the pax of 4 aircraft and the whole aftermath, only a really cynical beancounter with a bad attitude cares about the bar. "Oh no, 10 scartch tickets and 4 baggies are gone and they didn't pay"!!! Call the police!!!"

Cheers mate,

Stij

right on.
Pitty that the passengers didn't panic and used all the slides. In my view they were entitled to do so because they were kidnapped by a foreign gang bringing them to a foreign country against their will. And they could have used the slides to escape . That would have costed Ryanair a lot of money : repairing the slides, airport tax, disabled airplane for quite some time and worst of all: all the food that would have expired.

[regi]

and no word about this on their websites.
I bet that Beauvais airport authority has received already a hefty bill from Ryanair, with the threat that they will leave Beauvais if they don't pay for all the costs. Hey, come on, it is Beauvais their fault that they apply a rule that they close at 21h00.

[sn26567]

and no word about this on their websites.

RYANAIR STATEMENT IN RELATION TO DISRUPTIVE PASSENGERS ON DIVERTED FLIGHT

As you may be aware, a number of Ryanair passengers refused to disembark an aircraft after it diverted to Liege as a result of fog at Paris Beauvais. There are a number of incorrect claims in the media this morning in relation to this issue. Ryanair was not afforded the opportunity to provide comment on these issues in advance of publication. I ask that you use the statement below in order to ensure that is it clear that:

• Ryanair were forced to divert four flights to Liege due to fog.
• On three of these flights, passengers observed crew requests and travelled onward by coach.
• On ONE flight, passengers were unreasonable and refused to follow the advice which would have allowed them to complete their journey.
• Crew only left the aircraft when passengers became disruptive.
• It is standard safety procedure for ALL airlines to divert to another airport when weather closes a destination airport.
• It is standard procedure to coach passengers to their destination – and this was followed in all cases – even in the case of these disruptive pax.

Ryanair’s Stephen McNamara said

“Due to the weather-related (fog) closure of Paris Beauvais Airport on 16th Nov, four Ryanair flights were forced to divert to Liege. The majority of passengers followed crew requests to disembark for onward coach transportation to Paris Beauvais. Passengers on one flight, FR5222 (Fez – Paris Beauvais), ignored crew instructions and remained on the aircraft until requested to disembark by Airport Police. Ryanair thanks the majority of passengers who followed crew advice and apologises to them for the inconvenience of these weather-related diversions. All passengers were coached onward to Beauvais. This is now a matter for the police.”

Ryanair press release 17 November 2010

[earthman]

Was there actually fog in Paris, or is this another of their usual excuses?

[regi]

Dear André, a press release. But not on their website - or is it me who cannot find it ?
And than that latest line: "a matter for the police. "What ? Why? Who?

Now also in the Brittish press with quite a different tone:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... it-in.html

[Acid-drop]

...until requested to disembark by Airport Police

So it seems the police did do its jobs in the end ...

[sean1982]

OK, a lot of these responses just indicate to me you some of you really don't have a clue about how aviation works. If you think police assisting in a security matter like this is a waste off taxpayers money, no matter which country the aircraft is based in, then I can only regret that. I just hope your plane never gets hijacked somewhere over another country territory when you're flying on an OO-registred aircraft. We'll see if you then will still think that it is a waste off taxpayers money. I actually know the crew very well who was on the aircraft: one and a half hour long they were bombarded by nice little sentences like: salle flamand, fils de putte, I will kill you like a pig and what sexual comments were made against the girls I will not even type here.

Some people say: They shoudln't have taken off. Then it would be wrong as well, because how can you know that an airport is still gonna be foggy 3 hours after departure? On top of that the crew tried to divert to lille first; but they were packed so they didn't except them, next on the list was CRL, already closed, so then comes next on the list, LGG. If they would have just cancelled the flight the headline would have been: Ryanair dumps hundreds of passengers in Fez, or not?

To Regi's suggestion about using the slide? I'm not even gonna start to comment about that statement. The busses were waiting just outside the terminal pax caused themselves an extra 4.5 hours delay by not getting off. Maybe first learn someting about airline operations before making statements that make no sense at all

stij, I'm not talking about 4 baggies an 10 scratchcards. I'm talking perfumes, watches, all the food and drinks. So you think it's justified to do that after a diversion?? I feel I'm being ripped off by the government as well by paying taxes for things I don't want, the catholic church for example. Does that give me the right to go and raid the government buildings now to get my money back to compensate for my grief?? and on top of that telling to all the people that work there to fuck oof, that they are all sons of a bitch, and that I will kill them if they try to stop me? Why is it that people think this kind of behaviour is justified on board an aircraft?

Or maybe, just maybe these reactions are only here because we are talking about ryanair off course. If it would be a Brussels Airlines aircraft people would say that the behaviour of the pax was outrageous.

[Nevihta]

Not sure if it was possible or not to land on time at Beauvais.
But if Beauvais was closed because of fog, the question is "why Ryanair sent the aircraft to Liege instead of Paris...? "

[Polaris]

Not sure if it was possible or not to land on time at Beauvais.
But if Beauvais was closed because of fog, the question is "why Ryanair sent the aircraft to Liege instead of Paris...? "

Why did the FR flight not divert to CDG? Seeing that most of the passengers would be inbound to that area anyway? Second option would de Lille Lesquin according to me, also good connectivity to the rest of France... But if Ryanair thinks it's more economical to divert to Liège, why not?

This would be a reason for me to choose a flag carrier over a low cost airline...

[sn26567]

In all this story, there seems to have been a lack of communication. Passengers want to know the truth, however bad it can be. The truth is more reassuring than uncertainty.

If the reason for the delay is fog in Beauvais, tell it to the passengers. If later you cannot land in Beauvais because the airport is closed, again tell it (but then why couldn't the airport make an exception because of the bad weather?).

Most important, if buses to Beauvais were waiting outside of Lege terminal building, why weren't the pax informed about it? They staged a mutiny to be bought back home, and the buses were there, right outside, waiting for them! This all is unbelievable.

In one word: "Communication" seems to have been entirely forgotten in this sad story. A lesson for the future, Mr O'Leary, self-proclaimed champion of communication who seems to have forgotten to teach the basics of communication to his employees.

But as Sean clearly explains, the behaviour of some pax is to be absolutely condemned. Lack of communication is not an excuse for vandalism: there was no state of war. And this is now indeed a matter for police.

[Super Baloo]

The question is not about if it was right to divert to LGG. There was certainly a lot of reasons why the airplane diverted to LGG (money saving was maybe one).

The main point is the conduct of the passengers. Threating other peoples life, stealing other people property is a crime and should be punished.
Ryanair apparently organised buses from LGG to Beauvais so did their best to acheive their legal duties in trying to get the people to their destination airport.
The captain probably knew he would have to divert enroute but the company thought it would have been better for the passenger to get to their destination in the middle of the night then to stay overnight in Fes and get to Beauvais only around 10-11 o'clock in the morning. I don't see the problem in that.

What's worst ? Getting to your destination late or not getting at all ?
I don't particularly like Ryanair but it seems they are not at fault in this case.

What was the point in threating the crew ? Forced them to fly to a closed airport ? Just show you're an idiot and a violent person ?

I hope the passenger will be punished for what they've done. You don't have all the rights in an airplane. The crew deserves respect even if they work for Ryanair.

[euroflyer]

uhuh, I know why I cannot contribute to the FR statisics part: no experience with them at my end. And I am not keen to make any.

A good point in the discussion above was 'why should Belgian Police do something on foreign soil" (i.e. a FR plane). It clearly refers to the 'Marseille case' where FR itself claimed (still claims?) that their planes are foreign soil, even if they are based in France and operate regularly to and from France and the crew is living in France so that they do not have to apply French social standards and labour law for their employment contracts (that is at least the way I understood the case).

If all the timings given here are correct FR (and the crew) would have been aware that they would very likely not be able to make it to Beauvais in time before the closure, with or without fog. It would have been only fare to announce this to pax before the start of the flight or very early in flight and explain the situation to them. If this would have happened than I think pax would not have reacted like this (but of course this is only speculation). And yes, I cannot see any reason to divert to LGG, there is CDG, even Orly, Lille etcetera. Maybe there are operational reasons behind this (other than it is cheaper in LGG), but than they should give those. Next time they divert a flight from Italy to CRL to Marseille and bus the pax home to CRL and thereby save a lot of fuel .

Hopefully more and more pax see that there is a logic: if you pay close to nothing than you get close to nothing ...

[Stij]

@ Sean: I quote myself: "I don't approve of the behaviour of the pax". So, no, I don't consider this to be justified behaviour on an airplane, on the contrary. The point about the bar was that this is a minor problem compared to a situation where a crew (has to) abandon(ed) an airplane and leaving it to the pax.

But do you consider it justified behaviour of Ryanair to deviate to an airport 4 hours away when CDG was open (I checked flightstats and at 23:26 an Airbus came in from FCO)?

This is about a company that couldn't live up to its contract: bringing pax to Beauvais, because it was closed, bummer. But instead of finding the least inconvenient solution for its pax, its chose the cheapest: Lille, then Charleroi and finally Liège, instead of landing the Boeing at CDG.

Maybe Ryanair pushes the savings a bit to far, upto a level where some pax go bananas when things go wrong or they have to pay "penalties" for small errors (personally I've been "boiling" a few times on their planes as well, but I can controll myself). Maybe they should increase their prices a bit so they can afford to take care of their pax in such situations and don't have to extort the pax for small errors.

And about Bru Air: they probably had their share of diversions, cancellations and delays as well. But there never were these kind of actions by pax, maybe because BruAir tries to get as close as possible, without looking so much at the cost.

Cheers,

Stij

[regi]

There was the remark that the airplane was officially hijacked.
Well...that is a legal procedure.
I hope the Belgian justice is probably already on this matter.
So they ask: who declared that state of hijacking ?
Probably the captain.
But the airplane was not hijacked.
So we have a false statement by the captain. Punishable by Belgian law , and very sensititve in these days of terrorism, especially on an airplane coming from a muslim country.
The captain will probably have consulted Ryanair HQ beforehand. Can be checked by his communications.
So we have a crime committed by a group, which is regarded as a heavier offence in Belgium.
With that Ryanair statement that it is now a matter of police, Ryanair could face a boomerang effect. All involved personnel can be called to give testimony. Video and audio footage can be asked to proof their case ( of theft, insults and threats ) But the justice department can also ask for the communications by the captain.
Declaring a full passenger plane as hijacked if not so is a major offence. ( comparable with false bomb alarms ) It starts an entire procedure at the Ministries of Internal Affairs, Justice and Defence. Anti terrorist squads have to be deployed, whatever.
If I was a passenger on board of an aircraft at an unknown foreign airport , and I hear somewhere somehow that the airplane is hijacked, I consider myself 100% rightful to get asap away from that life threatening situation, e.g. by using emergency exists and using the slides.
OK, that is all blablabla, I know. Nothing will happen. Belgium justice has other things on its head than some candy bars and - oh my God - some watches with the Ryanair logo. ( in fact I have no clue which Chinese rubbish they try to sell on board )

[regi]

What the crew concerns: I really feel sorry for you to be put under such stress. And this is not cynical, I mean it. Now comes the point: what do you do about it? Oops, you suddenly discover that you work with a contract that doesn't support you at all. You suffer from stress but you cannot take sick leave. You can not work under influence of anti depressives. You can not take legal action against passengers who insulted and threatened you because your boss will not allow it because of bad publicity. You are alone. This is the moment where you discover the difference working on a contract under Swiss or Irish labour legislation, against normal European standard contracts. Ask your union which legal step to make. Union?

[cnc]

How big can the difference in landing fees be between Beauvais and CDG if it's more profitable to bus people for 4 hours then to pay the difference?

landing a plane at CDG is one thing, leaving it there for a few hours and then trying to get out is an other