Overbooking on intercontinental flights

[DannyVDB]

Hi all,

I will leave in a few hours to Singapore with LH (via Frankfurt).

I booked in economy (with flexibility, think B), but wanted to upgrade to business for the section FRA-SIN with my M&M miles.

However, they said that I had to wait (waiting list) since the flight was fully booked in business and economy. Even more, it was overbooked: +31 pax in economy and +13 in business. First had still some places left. They said that if I had some chance they might upgrade me to business without miles.

My questions:
- Is this amount of overbooking (+44 pax!) happening often?
- Are there so many 'no-shows' on this type of flights (they seemed not to be surprised at all)?
- Will they autoamtically start upgrading business to first?
- They stated as well that I was high on the list (HON-circle is normally first) since I also had a lot of miles (?!) - The latter is even not really true since I have 'only' 80000 miles left from 190000 - Ans is this a criterium to put you higher/lower on the list? In general how are choices made?
- In June this year when I was on my way to Washington (if I remember well ), they called in the senators' lounge business class pax to Singapore to downgrade! This in return for 1500€ and 2 vouchers (1 section)! Is this happening often?

PS: I will not make a trip report since I have too many things to do, sorry for that

Cheers,
Danny

[andorra-airport]

Danny,

Yes , this is normal. When I worked for a BIG airline it often happened. They overbook, on calculations they have of the % of no-show in the past .(First class is never overbooked. Only in very very rare cases. Only the top people of the airline have a sign-in code to do so.) They upgrade first C-class pax with the highest card, like what you said, HON goes ALWAYS first. I have seen a scenario that a Y-class passenger was upgraded to F because he was one of the top frequent flyers of the airline. (first to C, but all was heavy overbooked so they upgraded him again to F, the lucky bastard) What I try to say, is that you have to be lucky to be one of the Y-class pax who has a high card. (diamond, gold, you know the game) . They work down the line of "card priority". When F and C are not full, even "normal" pax, with no card will be upgraded (when Y is overbooked, and all show up) ,but card holders always first. They will look at your dress. No jeans.

My advise to you, wear your best clothes, be nice to the check-in staff and supervisor, (dont be arrogant to them, they dont like that, they have the power) show them you card , and well.... you might have a lucky day.

All the best. Let us know if they upgraded you.

[regi]

Yep, it sounds as you will get an upgrade to business without forking out your miles.
Good luck.
It happened to me on a China Air flight AMS-BKK. Nice leather seats, champagne and a good sleep

But hold on a second: full flights now to Singapore ? Low season? Did LH cancelled some flights or is something going on with a Star Alliance partner ?
Is there a special event going on, sports, trade fair, convention ?
It sounds strange to me.

[Homo Aeroportus]

Could also be due to code-sharing.

I had this often e.g. on MXP-BRU with an SN ticket but flying on AZ metal.
I understand they have a number of seats allocated to the code sharing partner and it seems they couldn't know how many seats they still had free until consolidation at the last minute .

As Andorra-Airport said : Don't talk them down when they say "juste waite pleaze, we have an overbooking situazione". Nice smile and a "I count on you not to make this a problem for me. I do need to be in BRU tonight. Grazie mille".
Most of the time I handed up in front.

Hope you make it to SIN in good conditions.

Cheers

[sdbelgium]

- Is this amount of overbooking (+44 pax!) happening often?

Yes, there are many airlines which overbook their airplane by about 10 to 15%, so on a 744 (I guess?) this is around that figure.

I had it happen once, in JFK. They overbooked the last AA flight to LHR (on the 777), by about 20 people. Volunteers were offered 600 euro vouchers, an overnight stay in an airport hotel and confirmed seats on the first flight to LHR the next morning.

[tapclassic]

quite normal yes. Ryaniar will overbook, and you know when your booking number is 190 or above.

How to avoid overbooking? Try to check-in by telephone or internet without bags and then show up with them early enough at a counter.
Or at least come early to check-in.

In the US they autcion they let the overbookeds go to gate and then things get tight they start auctioning non-boarding compensations for volunteer at 200 USD plus hotels, then 300 etc, and if not one takes them they will select pax based on the date of booking (latest = stays put).

[Sam V]

...

[earthman]

above gold card(similar to HON of LH):
= eg. if they request an aisle seat and there is no aisle available other pax are re-seated for these pax(excuse for re-seated pax is config or acft change)

if flights are completely overbooked quite high compensations are being given(eg. 150 euros to arrive 40min earlier with a direct flight of an other company ; for delays the legal compensations are given)

Nice! But then you do need to be at the airport early.

[regi]

I work at the check-in at Brussels Airport for an airline that i will not specify here and it goes kinda like this:
(star alliance airline only European flights out of BRU)

above gold card(similar to HON of LH):
= can always UG to C class from any booking class for free and without points if places available in C also when flight is not overbooked BUT have to explicitly ask for UG
= highest priority for UG when overbooked
= can even change flights on a non-flex ticket if approved by airline representative
= eg. if they request an aisle seat and there is no aisle available other pax are re-seated for these pax(excuse for re-seated pax is config or acft change)

Gold:
= 2nd highest priority
= no free UG's

we have allot of overbooked flights and its always UG priority from high to low with the cards as it should be + some pax have higher priority above other gold card members because they are from companies that have allot of employees flying with our airline
if flights are completely overbooked quite high compensations are being given(eg. 150 euros to arrive 40min earlier with a direct flight of an other company ; for delays the legal compensations are given)

if anyone wants more info send me a PM not feeling like writing everything down here atm

That last line is asking for trouble ! How many thousand messages did you receive already with the question :" hey, can you get me a free upgrade and pop inn 50 kg extra luggage?"

[Sam V]

...

[regi]

oh come on, for a nice Luchtzak member you can make an exception ?
And I do not need another 50 kg extra, I am happy with 40.

no, seriously, I was surprised that nobody contacted you yet personally.
Possible explanation:

• nobody did
  not many readers
  or the messages didn't come through. Just today I was aware that I have a mailbox in which there were messages of 2009...Is probably my mistake not watching it, but I was not aware about this website feature.

[thalenoi]

So DannyVDB,

did you get that opup?

Incidentally, I was lucky 2 years ago on an EY Y ticket to be upgraded to C at BRU check in (had silver) and to F at boarding, that was nice 5*.

Just two weeks ago was upped from C to F again on EY at BRU again, overbooked and gold now.
This time not so impressed, feel the service has downgraded, still give the huge seats 5*

[DannyVDB]

Hi Thalenoi,

No, not upgraded. Even miles would not work on that flight. They convinced several people from economy to take the next flight.

When coming back I could upgrade with miles (they said it was the last seat, hm - don't know if I belive that). Then I saw just before leaving the gate they invited some business pax to upgrade to first class (first class was then completely full, i.e. 8 pax, on a A340 SIN-MUC). Anyway I had my business class seat and could sleep > 7 hours .

I had the impression that the return flight was overbooked again and that maybe if I would not have upgraded with miles they might have upgraded me anyway. Question is always how long do you wait to say you want to be on the 'waitlist' for upgrades and use you miles?

Cheers,
Danny

[EBBR_Based]

I had this often e.g. on MXP-BRU with an SN ticket but flying on AZ metal.
I understand they have a number of seats allocated to the code sharing partner and it seems they couldn't know how many seats they still had free until consolidation at the last minute .

Most of these agreements are 'freeflow' these days, which means there are no longer fixed blocks on board of the aircraft (and if you work with fixed blocks for a codeshare partner, the empty seats are usually released several days before departure of the flight). So what you claim is actually not possible...

[Homo Aeroportus]

Hi EBBR_based

I wrote : "I understand .... , it seems ...."

When you comment "So what you claim is actually not possible...", I hope you have a happy job in aviation since I think there is room for improvement in your communication skills before you envisage a carreer in diplomacy.

Kiss from KIH (100 NM from DXB, ... in its 315 !) where I could feast my eyes and camera with Mryia before it took off back to Kiev this afternoon.

Cheers.

H.A.

P.S. : will try to post some pics and video of this "Air Show" but the bandwidth is paper thin here.
Had AN-225, (IR)AN-140, MI-171, Shahed attack helo, ...