Accident Airbus A340 of Turkish Airlines @ Brussels Airport - engine cowls damaged

[TCAS_climb]

I suppose we must be happy that the pilots were able to save the situation

On the other hand it's worth wondering to what extent they didn't create that situation all by themselves.

Any chance of taking pics to see the damage? Not even sure this is going to be officially labelled as an accident.
Accident definition on SKYbrary

[fcw]

All I can say is that BRU escaped a major disaster.

Please don't feed the journos and NIMBY's Regi!!
You can compare it to making a dent in your Ferrari when trying to park it. Nothing to be proud of, a lot of money and hastle, but far from a disaster.

[SN539]

All I can say is that BRU escaped a major disaster.

Please don't feed the journos and NIMBY's Regi!!
You can compare it to making a dent in your Ferrari when trying to park it. Nothing to be proud of, a lot of money and hastle, but far from a disaster.

Hmm ... It seems the aircraft had difficulties to brake. What about if it has gone trough the end of the runway ? Or if the engine had caught fire due to sparks following contact with the runway ?
I personnaly agree with the vision of Regi ....

[regi]

All I can say is that BRU escaped a major disaster.

Please don't feed the journos and NIMBY's Regi!!
You can compare it to making a dent in your Ferrari when trying to park it. Nothing to be proud of, a lot of money and hastle, but far from a disaster.

What? You compare this near crash with a dent in a passenger car?
How often does such a thing happen , you think? Certainly not every day.
This is not just a small mishap.
And yes, it was again TK. AMS remember ?

[teddybAIR]

Am I sure?

I live below short final for runway 20 and saw a Turkisch Airlines A340 flying over my house. Consequently, I'm quite sure a Turkisch Airlines A340 made an approach to runway 20 in the late forenoon on sunday. Yet, I am not sure it was the incident plane. Nevertheless, I can hardly imagine that 2 A340's of Turkish Airlines would serve BRU.

Possible explanation why you saw it on/near 25L: do not forget that RWY 20 and 25L cross each other...

[luchtzak]

To avoid further discussions, I changed the subject title from "incident" to "accident", according to http://www.thefreedictionary.com

in·ci·dent (ns-dnt)

1. A definite and separate occurrence; an event. See Synonyms at occurrence.
2. A usually minor event or condition that is subordinate to another.
3. Something contingent on or related to something else.
4. An occurrence or event that interrupts normal procedure or precipitates a crisis: an international incident.
adj.
1. Tending to arise or occur as a result or accompaniment: "There is a professional melancholy . . . incident to the occupation of a tailor" (Charles Lamb).
2. Related to or dependent on another thing.
3. Physics Falling upon or striking a surface: incident radiation.

ac·ci·dent (ks-dnt, -dnt)
1.
a. An unexpected and undesirable event, especially one resulting in damage or harm: car accidents on icy roads.
b. An unforeseen incident: A series of happy accidents led to his promotion.
c. An instance of involuntary urination or defecation in one's clothing.
2. Lack of intention; chance: ran into an old friend by accident.
3. Logic A circumstance or attribute that is not essential to the nature of something.

[luchtzak]

Not even sure this is going to be officially labelled as an accident.
Accident definition on SKYbrary

I found this on your quoted website:

would normally require major repair or replacement of the affected component

a damaged engine is in this criteria I presume!

Let's await the result of the official investigations!

[TCAS_climb]

I think the definition was adopted at an era when engines used to blow up a lot more frequently, hence the little tweak in the definition about engines failures. You can blow up an engine but if the damage is contained within the cowling it's not an accident.

If it's not an accident there's no requirement to make an investigation and publish a report. Guess what label THY would love to use. It's not their call (it's BCAA's call) but they could lobby, argue, etc.

[regi]

I think the definition was adopted at an era when engines used to blow up a lot more frequently, hence the little tweak in the definition about engines failures. You can blow up an engine but if the damage is contained within the cowling it's not an accident.

If it's not an accident there's no requirement to make an investigation and publish a report. Guess what label THY would love to use. It's not their call (it's BCAA's call) but they could lobby, argue, etc.

You don't think that Turkish Airlines would call any publicity good publicity as with Ryanair?

[TCAS_climb]

Can't remember precisely but I don't think MO'L was bragging as usual when one of their engines touched the runway.
Ryanair B738 at Bristol on Nov 19th 2009, engine pod strike

[teddybAIR]

In complement to luchtzak's remark to end all discussion on whether this is an accident or incident, I would like to add that ICAO Annex 13 to the convention on International Civil Aviation (Aircraft Accident and Incident Investigation) defines accidents and incidents as follows:

Accident. An occurrence associated with the operation of an aircraft which takes place between the time any person boards the aircraft with the intention of flight until such time as all such persons have disembarked, in which:

a) a person is fatally or seriously injured as a result of:
— being in the aircraft, or
— direct contact with any part of the aircraft, including parts which have become detached from the aircraft, or
— direct exposure to jet blast, except when the injuries are from natural causes, selfinflicted or inflicted by other persons, or when the injuries are to stowaways hiding outside the areas normally available to the passengers and crew; or

b) the aircraft sustains damage or structural failure which:
— adversely affects the structural strength, performance or flight characteristics of the aircraft, and — would normally require major repair or replacement of the affected component, except for engine failure damage, when the damage is limited to the engine, its cowlings or accessories; or for damage limited to propellers, wing tips, antennas, tires, brakes, fairings, small dents or puncture holes in the aircraft skin; or

c) the aircraft is missing or is completely inaccessible.

Note 1.— For statistical uniformity only, an injury resulting in death within thirty days of the date of the accident is classified as a fatal injury by ICAO.
Note 2.— An aircraft is considered to be missing when the official search has been terminated and the wreckage has not been located

Incident. An occurrence, other than an accident, associated with the operation of an aircraft which affects or could affect the safety of operation.

Note.— The types of incidents which are of main interest to the International Civil Aviation Organization for accident prevention studies are listed in the Accident/Incident Reporting Manual (Doc 9156).

I'll spare you the detailed text on the categorisation of incidents. Yet, given the text highlighted in red, I don't think that the engine strike of the Turkish Airlines qualifies as an accident.

Best regards,
bAIR

P.S: ICAO is the only relevant source in these matters, the rest is just press and sensation

[regi]

a big BOINk of the engine on the tarmac , damaging the engine , will surely enforce a severe inspection of further wing and fuselage distortion.
If there is the tiniest distortion being measured, can we speak about a accident in that case ? ( because it is more than the engine that got damaged )

[speedbird1]

Just to bring this topic back toward the THY A340 incident... is the aircraft in a hanger now? Or is it still parked remotely at the airport etc.
If any ground ops guys read here feel free to have a drive past it...

Cheers,
Ems

[teddybAIR]

If it's not an accident there's no requirement to make an investigation and publish a report

I have to disagree on this one Annex 13 is titled Aircraft Accident and Incident Investigation...clearly indicating that also incidents are notified, investigated, reported and finally result in safety recommendations...luckily, the authorities don't wait for accidents to happen before critically evaluating the system...incidents will do just fine!

[teddybAIR]

@ regi, the truth is that if you want to be 100% correct, we cannot even talk about an accident or incident at this point...The degree of damage will finally determine in which category it falls. Nevertheless, the essence is that nobody got hurt. To answer your question: yes, if the damage goes beyond the engine, and required repairs to the wing structure, it will be catalogued as an accident.

Accident...incident...the passengers couldn't care less: they got out safely...the rest is for the statistics

[stratofreighter]

Has anyone actually got a link which features photos of the damage

[KriVa]

I live underneath the approach for 20 too, and I'm pretty sure I didn't see an A340 passing between 9 and 11 o' clock. I did however see one passing over Kampenhout Sas (when seen from my point of view). An aircraft passing there can be for 25L or 25R, when seen from my home. So unless the replacement A340 was sent out pretty damn quick, the first one must have touched down on 25L.

PS: teddybAIR: I think you're wrong on this one. Sunday was one of the rare days where BRU did get served by two A340's in the same day. The replacement aircraft for the incident/accident-plane was another A340.

[Genghis Khan]

Hello all,

New to this forum, so hi everybody

My friend here at work saw it landing so I can confirm it landed (or whatever) on runway 25L.

Seen the aircraft and can tell you that it has visible (but minimal) damage to engine number 1 cowling: LH fan cowl is a bit cracked around 7 o'clock position. LH thrust reverser cowling has some scratch damage too but again quite minimal for what it could have been. Engine drain mast is a bit shorter than it should due to friction with runway.

Aircraft seems to have no structural damage, no airframe damage, no engine damage.

Cause: unable to know at this time. Could have been a pilot mistake as well as a technical problem. Probably DFDR readout will give some clues.

If you look at the aircraft from a distance you cannot even notice the damage I just described.

Regards,

[teddybAIR]

@ KriVa,

Well, I suppose I saw ghosts then
I'm quite sure a Turkish Airlines A340 overflew my garden, but I'm not gonna discuss anymore...it doesn't really matter, does it?

[Boeing767copilot]

http://avherald.com/h?article=432a7b56&opt=0