Ryanair want to remove the Co-Pilot

[FlightMate]

Like trains, busses are supposedly safe with only one driver? Think again.

But it's only a few lost lives, nobody cares until it is somebody YOU know!

[JAF737]

Like trains, busses are supposedly safe with only one driver? Think again.

But it's only a few lost lives, nobody cares until it is somebody YOU know!

Don't worry... put them in a sim and they'll talk again

[cathay belgium]

Hi,

Don't worry... put them in a sim and they'll talk again

Okay, it 100 % sure ANY pilot thinks this way because their jobs are on stake but HELLO ,
NOBODY was saying/writing/replying it's gonna be for TOMORROW in our B737-800/A320-200,...

This in context of the FUTURE more developped airplanes and on short-haul , besides
if you act like this I can too:
How many crashes these days where in fact HUMAN/PILOTS ERRORS while there were
2 of them in the cockpit, maybe it's better to get rid of them ..
Okay the same can be said of A320 computer errors...

Don't act being affraid of the future, where is the 3rd radio/engineering in our B747 like in the old days,
oh yes gone... never talked about them anymore just in the museumplanes ...

I KNOW this reply is again subject of replies , but don't forget it just a topic nothing for tommorow
and yes I'm no pilot,nor sim-fan,just an enthousiast with a view on the future..
Future= be happy if there's ANY pilot in front,... maybe in a 20/30 years...
But yes.. they're never went to the moon ... yes ???

CX-B

[regi]

back to the drawing board for MoL after this incident: pilot of Qatar Air died by heart failure and the co pilot had to perform an emergency landing on Kuala Lumpur.

http://www.vandaag.be/buitenland/49089_ ... ckpit.html

Just in Dutch, but I am sure this will be picked up on most aviation related websites.

[Air Key West]

If it had been a Ryanair aircraft with one pilot and the pilot died during the flight (as in the case of the QR flight), MOL will certainly have had one of his flight attendants to put down the plane safely. And if the f/a did not succeed, well I assume MOL will have no problems with his conscience if 150 or 200 pax died, as long as the bookkeeper makes a lot of money regardless of the consequences (forgive me for being cynical).

[airazurxtror]

I assume MOL will have no problems with his conscience if 150 or 200 pax died, as long as the bookkeeper makes a lot of money

This is perhaps a bit too much, even if one doesn't like Ryanair.

[regi]

If it had been a Ryanair aircraft with one pilot and the pilot died during the flight (as in the case of the QR flight), MOL will certainly have had one of his flight attendants to put down the plane safely. And if the f/a did not succeed, well I assume MOL will have no problems with his conscience if 150 or 200 pax died, as long as the bookkeeper makes a lot of money regardless of the consequences (forgive me for being cynical).

The big problem is that you are not cynical but it is the truth. ( well not really about a crash, because it would cost him too much, and we don't know luckely yet how MoL would really react on a disaster of which Ryanair has been spared so far )
We make jokes about Ryanair, we mix in heated discussions about the passengers and so on.
But according MoL he leaves Marseille because 200 employees are seen as Irish workers. Didn't know that the 4 airplanes based at Marseille needed 200 pilots +FA.

On the other hand Ryanair doesn't stop all operations at Marseille so their statements are just crap. Half true means not true.

I see in Ryanair a real danger of our way of life. I get more and more convinced that large companies pose a real danger for public safety/rights/welfare.

[airazurxtror]

But according MoL he leaves Marseille because 200 employees are seen as Irish workers. Didn't know that the 4 airplanes based at Marseille needed 200 pilots +FA.
On the other hand Ryanair doesn't stop all operations at Marseille so their statements are just crap. Half true means not true.

Could you read accurately what it is all about ?
Mr O'Leary did not claim that 200 employees were concerned by the problem; and you need not only pilots to fly an aircraft (the cabin crew don't exist for you, it seems - just self loading equipment ?).
Ryanair will close its base at MRS on january 11th. About half the present routes will be closed, the remaining ones will be flown by aircraft based outside France.
(I am afraid your post is not far from being just crap also).

[regi]

But according MoL he leaves Marseille because 200 employees are seen as Irish workers. Didn't know that the 4 airplanes based at Marseille needed 200 pilots +FA.
On the other hand Ryanair doesn't stop all operations at Marseille so their statements are just crap. Half true means not true.

Could you read accurately what it is all about ?
Mr O'Leary did not claim that 200 employees were concerned by the problem; and you need not only pilots to fly an aircraft (the cabin crew don't exist for you, it seems - just self loading equipment ?).
Ryanair will close its base at MRS on january 11th. About half the present routes will be closed, the remaining ones will be flown by aircraft based outside France.
(I am afraid your post is not far from being just crap also).

I meant that Ryanair keeps on using Marseille. I included pilots and stewards in the 200 figure. And you add ground crew as well. Question: why does ground crew has to work under Irish law?

[regi]

btw it is Ryanair that lost again a legal battle because they tried again to go around national legislation.
The law was there before Ryanair. They knew it, let the personell underwrite illegal contracts and scream now to be victimised by a wrong court order.
I do hope that politicians in Flanders follow this Ryanair saga closely before they provide them subsidies to come to Ostend.

[dre]

If pilots and FO's under Irish contract (50) are not flying their routes anymore, dont you think that ground personnell (with a french contract) (check in, loaders, ticketting, etc etc) are not AFFECTED ?
200 people will be affected and the BASE will be closed.

'Air Key West wrote:
I assume MOL will have no problems with his conscience if 150 or 200 pax died, as long as the bookkeeper makes a lot of money'

MOL has already openly done statements that were not far off.... His bookkeepers have already calculated the effect on RYR for when there would be a fatal accident.

[airazurxtror]

btw it is Ryanair that lost again a legal battle because they tried again to go around national legislation.
The law was there before Ryanair.

First, Ryanair has not lost the case, which has not yet come in a French court - and they stand a good chance to win, if it must end up at the European Court of Justice in the last instance.
And the said law was promulgated (by the Dominique De Villepin government) a few months after Ryanair based its aircraft at Marseille, in order to protect Air France against a dangerous concurrent.

[Air Key West]

I don't want to question what you write. So, if this is true, it is not only serious (ernstig/grave), but also extremely worrying, even frightening.

[airazurxtror]

MOL has already openly done statements that were not far off.... His bookkeepers have already calculated the effect on RYR for when there would be a fatal accident.

This is slander.
Mr O'Leary has repeatedly stated that security is all important, and paramount amongst his preoccupations. He is well aware that an accident would have a devastating effect on Ryanair, as it has a lot of ennemies who would be only too glad to crucify it - on the grounds that the security is low-cost also.
(Whereas high cost companies can have repeated crashes without any serious critic - see AF, for instance).

[regi]

MOL has already openly done statements that were not far off.... His bookkeepers have already calculated the effect on RYR for when there would be a fatal accident.

This is slander.
Mr O'Leary has repeatedly stated that security is all important, and paramount amongst his preoccupations. He is well aware that an accident would have a devastating effect on Ryanair, as it has a lot of ennemies who would be only too glad to crucify it - on the grounds that the security is low-cost also.
(Whereas high cost companies can have repeated crashes without any serious critic - see AF, for instance).

I have no doubts that a disaster is the last thing that any airline wants, even of the competition. It gives a bad image on the entire aviation industry.
I think it is normal that bookkeepers would calculate the immediate cost of a worst case scenario. They have to, even if it is just to compare different insurances.
But I can not imagine that they make the calculation: a saving on maintenance against the cost of a crash.
I made the remark after the fatal heart condition of a Qatar Air pilot, referring to the proposal/excercise/idea of MoL to scrap the co pilot.
Because again we see here that Ryanair wants to change legislation. If a stewardess would be trained to land an airplane , at current legislation it would mean she has a licence to fly that type of airplane, meaning, she is a pilot and has to be paid accordingly. If Ryanair wants to hire people with a B737 licence to do catering , it is up to them, I don't care. But they will have to pay them the salary of a pilot. Who would be so desperate to work for Ryanair to drop a pilot's salary?

[regi]

btw it is Ryanair that lost again a legal battle because they tried again to go around national legislation.
The law was there before Ryanair.

First, Ryanair has not lost the case, which has not yet come in a French court - and they stand a good chance to win, if it must end up at the European Court of Justice in the last instance.
And the said law was promulgated (by the Dominique De Villepin government) a few months after Ryanair based its aircraft at Marseille, in order to protect Air France against a dangerous concurrent.

You are right, I was assuming there had been a court ruling. The authorities had just started the procedure. And that is enough for Ryanair to scrap Marseille as a base ! But that makes things even worse: that is pure black mail ! And it even cements my idea that large companies have to be watched and regulated before they change our way of life/legislation/social network.
Can somebody explain why Ryanair scraps Marseille as a base before a court ruling - which would be won by Ryanair eventually according airazurxtror?
There are other examples in the industry for example in the transport business, where large companies tried to change legislation by treatening the population with unemployment.

[fcw]

Can somebody explain why Ryanair scraps Marseille as a base before a court ruling - which would be won by Ryanair eventually according airazurxtror?
There are other examples in the industry for example in the transport business, where large companies tried to change legislation by treatening the population with unemployment.

Regi, it is the French who are changing their laws, to protect the national carrier, they changed the law in past and they will do it again in the future to win the court case! They don't care about European legislation, ask the Roma gypsies!
Not only FR has pilots on foreign contracts based in France: Easy, Korean, DHL, Fedex,... all have pilots based in France on foreign contracts!

[willem]

fcw, could you please tell me where you can find fedex or dhl pilot's based in France with a fedex/dhl contract ?

just out of curiosity...

[sn26567]

it is the French who are changing their laws, to protect the national carrier

Are you sure? Now, after Ryanair and easyJet, Air France's own subsidiary CityJet is brought to court for not implementing French legislation!