Belgian ATC 24h strike 28/09/2010 12:00 UTC

[euroflyer]

Rright to reply on the income issue! I would like to turn it around: if somebody is jealous about a ATCO his income, take his job. I wouldn't want it.

Just for clarification: I am not jealous. I am quite confident my salary is higher than that of an ATCO and I am happy with them having a good salary as well. I just tried to make the point that it is obviously much easier which such an income to relocate to another place / town / workplace even with your family etc. than for other people working for much smaller wages.

You are absolutely right that actions should be directed towards the people that can do something about the problems. And at the same time, bystanders have to be protected from harm.

That is why :

*There was a protest in front of the gates of Belgocontrol at the opening of the new centre. Everyone invited was handed a dossier that set out the problems and explained the situation. The aim was to reach the politicians (that were invited to the opening) and the press.

*The t-shirts worn by the controllers and the banners in the opsroom were a message to the press. Every picture taken that night of the opsroom has the message in it. (some time before the opening, management made a movie and pictures that were distributed to the press to avoid the use of any pictures made that opening night)

*the controllers decided to work without pay for two hours because that would put management in a difficult position. (I was told this posed an insurance problem)

None of these things brought about a reaction or action unfortunatly

Ever had the idea that than maybe the arguments are just not good enough? Or they might just not be right? Does anybody has the right to continue forever until he / she gets whatever they want? Strange idea to me. I thought it was about bringing arguments, negotiate and find compromises. You cannot always get what you want ...

Wether they were right to think this is irrelevant to the exercise. Their perception was formed by all the preceeding events.

Strange view ... Irrelevant if they are right or not? Come on ...

I cannot believe they did this to hit as many people as possible.

I can.

I am totally in favor of the right to strike, but cannot accept wildcat strikes. There are rules to be obeyed by everyone, including ATCs.

A strike would not be "wildcat" if it is announced and duly notified at least one week in advance. That's the law. Strikers who do not follow the law should be held financially responsible for the huge losses incurred by airlines, the airport, the travellers who were stranded, the businesspeople who missed important meetings, etc.

YES, fully agree and than full stop.

[regi]

Wow, we start to knibble at the basics of our society.
People seem to forget that without wildcat strikes we would still live in a 19th century world controlled by steel/textile barons.
People who use the word democracy ( from Greec words: deimos + kratein: the people rule, and that has nothing to do with majority, elections, moral, legislation, just with the brutal force of the people. You could compare it with the words of Jim Morrison "they have the guns but we got the numbers" ) seem to forget that not 1 law in Belgium has been voted by the people. It has been voted by appointed people (parliamentarians ) We have no democracy, that is quite simple. By the way, be careful with equalising democracy with a parlementarian election: this is how Hitler came to power.
Law: There is a saying: a law is there to be broken.
Mostly we accept the system we live in because the cost to break the law is higher than the profit.
I repeat again: D'Orazio and the miners got away with their utterly undemocratic and illegal fights, destructions, blockades etcetera. But they got better off - and that is what matters in their game.

Personally I am very much afraid of what the future will bring to us. Our politicians forbid to organise a referendum for the new European government. ( the countries which allowed it saw to their big disappointment that the common people had a different idea )
We just saw this week the condamnation of Air France/KLM because of the cargo price fixing. But it means that it can work also in the opposite way. If a big company , Ryanair e.g., can enforce new legislation about strikes , we are really living in an Orwellian society.

And for those who want to punish the strikers with fines ( which would mean that they loose all their possessions because the costs are so high ) and jobloss, learn from history what happens with people who have nothing left to loose.

[regi]

if somebody is jealous about a ATCO his income, take his job.

And if an ATCO is not happy about his job, let him find and take another job.

According to the RTBF JT this evening :
- there were only 30 controllers (out of some 300) that wanted to strike. Not very democratic. And we were not told that by the few supporters of the strikers who wrote here.
- the questions are now :
- the responsability of the strikers viz the financial losses of BIAC and the airlines
- the necessity of a minimal service to be provided in case of a strike

I asked already the question: what is the number you need to be satisfied that people take action?
IMHO: the opinion of even 1 person counts. If the relocation of just 1 ATCO poses unsolvable problems, he can take action ( legal or illegal ). And if his colleagues agree, they can join him. Hold on a second, this is what happened ! ( yèh yèh, we know much more is going on )
And as said before, their job is so specific it will be difficult/impossible to find a decent other job.
And as said by another member: go ahead, throw them out, but where will you find the replacements? The army? Forget it, they are overstretched themselves and look at a horrifying ageing problem.
Why do you think they are well paid? Because they are a rare breed of people with very specific qualifications.

[teddybAIR]

Bingoow! And yet another referral to the 19th century!!! Is it so hard to deliver arguments for your statements?

I'm willing to grant them that they have already made substantial efforts to communicate with their management and discuss their concerns. Yet, the past has proven that strikes do not bring them any closer to their goal. They have striked before and the financial situation of Belgocontrol hasn't improved since.

I am under the impression that the ATCO's are in a privileged position in the sense that they are scarse. I wonder what would happen should 2 employees at my employer decide to commence a strike that is not supported by their respective unions and has millions of € impact on her customer base...

I'm not saying that their demands are not valid, I'm saying that they use instruments that are disproportional to their goal because of the following reasons:
- the economic cost to their stakeholders is massive
- the expected return is not clear to the impacted stakeholders: passengers, airlines, press, etc. All have their interpretation of the demands and reasoning behind this strike
- they did not get an inch closer to their goal...whatever it may be!
- the government is operating under a regime of "ongoing affairs" and the dossier of Belgocontrol will at soonest be treated as of the moment a new government is installed

In short: the cost of this actions outweighs the return by a significant factor and the only reason why they can get away with it is because ATCO's are a precious piece of human capital with very specific skills that are hard to replace!

Any remarks on the remuneration package of ATCO's are totally besides the point, by the way!

[tolipanebas]

Ever had the idea that than maybe the arguments are just not good enough? Or they might just not be right? Does anybody has the right to continue forever until he / she gets whatever they want? Strange idea to me. I thought it was about bringing arguments, negotiate and find compromises. You cannot always get what you want ...

Forget about the arguments, about being right, about negotiating and compromising in the end...

What matters to managers today is their cost basis and their competitive advantage against others, and that alone. All the rest is just small talk to fill the press releases and to keep unions bussy around the table.

In such a neo-liberal constellation it is hard for unions to make a 'soft point' about too high a workload, poor social climate, bad work atmosphere etc other than by deliberately inflicting financial damage to the company and thus change the cost basis upon which management bases each and every one of its decisions.

See it like this: if it will cost 2% to implement a union proposal to which the company sees no immediate financial benefit, very few managers are going to sign it off, yet if by doing just that he can actually save more than 2% of additional costs (from aditional strikes), accepting the proposal actually makes sense and things may start to move, not because he has suddenly seen the light or because he has changed idea, but because unions have decided to play according to the same rules as management. If everybody around the table uses the same equation, things can be sorted out surprisingly quickly sometimes...

You can call it blackmail if you want, but then isn't that what capitalism is all about?
Weird to see how using your qualities as bargaining power and maximizing individual revenues are suddenly seen as pure blackmail and greed if applied by staff!

[highcloud]

http://www.nieuwsblad.be/Article/Detail ... =GLD30474J

[euroflyer]

What matters to managers today is their cost basis and their competitive advantage against others, and that alone. All the rest is just small talk to fill the press releases and to keep unions bussy around the table.

In such a neo-liberal constellation it is hard for unions to make a 'soft point' about too high a workload, poor social climate, bad work atmosphere etc other than by deliberately inflicting financial damage to the company and thus change the cost basis upon which management bases each and every one of its decisions.

Sorry to blow your nice and simple view of industrial relations away. That might have been like this in the 20th century in some countries and companies (to make one comparison to history as well ). But today? Times have long changed in nearly all areas here. You do not have to believe me, but I know for sure for myself as I happen to work for more than 15 years in exactly this area of industrial relations and collective bargaining on quite high level both on national and European level. And yes, I do it on the employers side and therefore I know the internal discussions on this side of the table maybe better I have never heard or felt anybody arguing in the way you think, sorry. And acting along those simple lines ('make the strike so potentially expensive to them that they will agree because it is the cheaper option') has to my experience never brought the result.

Wow, we start to knibble at the basics of our society.

Well, I do not want to, but I feel some other people would like to ...

People seem to forget that without wildcat strikes we would still live in a 19th century world controlled by steel/textile barons.

That might be the case, but as you say we do not live anymore in the 19th century and so both (!) sides should not continue to act as if we did

[tolipanebas]

Sorry to blow your nice and simple view of industrial relations away.

No need to feel sorry, since nothing has been blown away at all; in fact, it hasn't even been breezed away to keep up with your figurative way of speech.

Acting along those simple lines ('make the strike so potentially expensive to them that they will agree because it is the cheaper option') has to my experience never brought the result.

Oh but it has, on several accounts, which is why it remains so popular in aviation.

in fact, the simple fact you announce a strike is often enough to give management second thoughts already, and make them far more flexible suddenly, but occasionally you happen to run into the big ego who thinks he's brave enough to stand firmly... only to give in a few hours later after loosing millions of euro.

[airazurxtror]

How "wildcat" is this strike when it has been announced the day before by NOTAM ?

A wildcat strike is a strike that is not properly decided and announced.
Before going on strike, a notice must be given, the lenght of which depends on the conventions agreed in the sector, and given by the shop stewards backed by their union - most of the time after a vote by all the affected workers.
A strike announced the day before ! and by a Notam !!!
Are you joking - or just abysmally ignorant of the procedures concerning the trade disputes ?

[euroflyer]

Sorry to blow your nice and simple view of industrial relations away.

No need to feel sorry, since nothing has been blown away at all; in fact, it hasn't even been breezed away to keep up with your figurative way of speech.

Acting along those simple lines ('make the strike so potentially expensive to them that they will agree because it is the cheaper option') has to my experience never brought the result.

Oh but it has, on several accounts, which is why it remains so popular in aviation.

in fact, the simple fact you announce a strike is often enough to give management second thoughts already, and make them far more flexible suddenly, but occasionally you happen to run into the big ego who thinks he's brave enough to stand firmly... only to give in a few hours later after loosing millions of euro.

Fine for me than, if that is the way you want to do industrial relations in a company (and maybe even the management wants that as well, I cannot rule this out), just do it. It is the easiest and simplest way and it might work internally to a certain degree. But than please, please, be not surprised when the whole company will just go down the drain in the medium term because there are other players and companies around which handle these issues today completely different and in a much more intelligent way, which does give the same or even better results to both (!) sides and strengthens the competitiveness of the company in the market. And than a number of people can once again write posts and complain about their poor colleagues who have lost their jobs in this process of going down the drain ... And believe it or not. This might even happen to ATCOs

[highcloud]

Exactly, the ATCO's are going down, and they know that already for quiet some time.
No one cares as long as you aren't directly affected or involved.

Maybe some of you will when this is over, it will take only a few months from now.
Politicians will have to invent a weird trick in order to continue any kind of air traffic service in belgian airspace, unless the backup plan lays ready in their drawers.

I wonder how much delay that's gonna cost. Why doesn't airlines see that one coming? They really are stakeholders in this issue, don't they realise ?
And that will also illustrate once again how competent Belgiums rulers are in maintaining their international legal duties, which they have by having signed the Chicago convention.
But apparently ... no one cares.

There will be probably no other solution than selling the airspace to another ANSP. Is it so difficult to arrange this in advance? Every party would have benefits of that, even the ATCO's.
But maybe there are other functionaries who need to be left alone as long as possible ... well, long it won't take anymore.

As I said earlier, the battle is lost. Whatever happens or happened. The strike will not change a damn thing. The economical damage that might follow within a few months can even be worse, at least for Belgium and its companies. If it happens maybe, because there's no government, we can blame the ATCO's for that too.

http://trends.rnews.be/nl/economie/nieu ... 317955.htm#

[flightlover]

http://www.nieuwsblad.be/Article/Detail ... =GLD30474J

For the non dutch speakers a translation of the article:

The wildcat strike of the ATCO's, of which no one knew how long it would last, started mid Thursday and lasted till 8 pm. 50000 travellers where helt hostage by this strike which was not suported by the unions.
Jean Nicolay, president of the ATCO guild says: It's not just about the relocation of two colleageus, that was just the last straw. He does not like to admit it, though the strike was mostly aimed against Jean-Claude Tintin, their CEO. Why does the CEO of a loss making company has to drive a posh BMW X5, with his own son Benoit as his driver?

Tintin is the former private secretary from (minister) Michel Daerden, and the 'luikse kliek' (translation?) is still believed to be pulling the strings at Belgocontrol. They do not see him fit to well represent them international, his english is believed to be insufficient. Tintin is CEO as well as HRM.
'He might be good with numbers but he's no people's person says ACV-Transcom's (union) Bernadette Guillemeyns.

The relocation of the head ATCO's from CRL to BRU seems to be a disciplinary punishment against their complaint about the new and impractible work rosters which he proposed. This resulted in the strike as their successors will have to take some month's to get to know their job.

Secretary of state mr SCHOUPE is not pleased with the way things are going at belgocontrol. He thinks Belgocontrol is sick, verry sick, not only financial but also structural. It may not last much longer that the company is working for free for airports like CRL. Also he feels the company is not preparing itself for the future.

Even the results of the audit by KPMG he ordered has not been on the table of the board yet.

[jan_olieslagers]

Thanks for your translation efforts, FlightLover. As for transliterating "de kliek van Luik" : "the Liège gang" or "the Liègian connection" ?

BTW the article seems to confirm several points that had already been mentioned on this site for a long while, while adding some interesting details.
IMO it can be overexplained, especially to foreigners, that only a minority of Belgian ATCO's belong to a trade union; they are thereby unable to organise a legal strike within the Belgian legal framework. That said, I personally have every sympathy for their long-standing grievances and the great patience they have long shown; but I do think any strike should be announced well in advance - and this one wasn't. In the case of ATCO's the legal 24 hour's notice is an absolute minimum, given that many travellers plan several days or even weeks in advance.

[regi]

BTW the article seems to confirm several points that had already been mentioned on this site for a long while, while adding some interesting details.
IMO it can be overexplained, especially to foreigners, that only a minority of Belgian ATCO's belong to a trade union; they are thereby unable to organise a legal strike within the Belgian legal framework. That said, I personally have every sympathy for their long-standing grievances and the great patience they have long shown; but I do think any strike should be announced well in advance - and this one wasn't. In the case of ATCO's the legal 24 hour's notice is an absolute minimum, given that many travellers plan several days or even weeks in advance.

A legal strike...matter of discussion. I was surprised to read from a specialist that only union members can go on strike. This is not true. And you are not punishable for any consequence at all if you go on strike , even as a non union member. The only difference that membership of a recognised union makes is that you are protected legally by your union and you receive an allowance from the union.
I had this conversation with the nr.3 of the top 10 Belgian manufacturing companies, about the subject of temporarely unemployment for employees, which was non-existant before last year in Belgium. The legislation says that according the CAO everybody has to agree if the majority agrees. I asked this person what would happen if an employee would refuse to underwrite that agreement. First he maintained that he would fire that employee immediately. But in not 1 labour contract is written that the employee loses his rights if he does not underwrite a new contract. He can be fired, but the company has to pay him out. This legislation can not be retroactive because this is against any legislation - worldwide.
This large company went ahead with temporarely unemployment and about 70 employees first denounced their union membership, and than did not underwrite the agreement ( a union member is obliged )
Not 1 - NOT ONE - got fired, and those 70 people kept working at 100% while their colleagues went to 4/5.
Other example: camera's. A company has to anounce its employees if they install camera's to control the work. The employees/labourers have to underwrite an agreement. But they can refuse to underwrite that agreement. As long as 1 has not underwritten the agreement, not camera can be put in action.
Coming back to the ATCO's : I am not sure about their specific labour contract concerning relocation. It could be that they are subject to disciplinary matters as some other state officals.

[regi]

Look dear members, it is quite simple how it works in reality :
if the ATC strike was illegal, they would have been punished immediately , been fired, whatever. But nothing happened. Because the reality is that they have the power. Just like D'Orazio had.

I try to look at it phylosophically - with full respect for victims at both sides of the line. Maybe we should be happy that this still can happen. It shows that we are not living in a society as in China where the individual has no rights at all and where wild capitalism is going rampant.

[thalenoi]

Well I was a victim of this wild strike and a very unhappy one.
I needed to be at the funeral of a family member 29 September at 11am.
I left my home at Udon Thani Thailand on 28 September at 12am to catch the 15.25 Thai Airways to Suvarnabhumi Bangkok airport and to connect with Etihad BKK-AUH EY401 leaving 20.35.
Got both boarding cards, thus for AUH-BRU EY57 leaving 29 Sept 02.45 ariving BRU 07.55.
Landed AUH 28 Sept at 23.45 to discover AUH-BRU delayed to 09.00 due to wild strike.
Etihad booked a hotel at Rotana 20 min bus ride from AUH airport where we (40/50 people) arived at 02.00.
Wake up call at 06.00, shower and breakfast, bus to airport at 07.00, depart as planned 09.00, landed BRU at 14.25.

Thus I missed funeral due to these belgocontrol unhappy people.
Imagine NO money on the planet will ease my anger in regard with these people who clearly haver NO decency.
Nice from Etihad to have taken care of their passengers and provide them with some extra sleep.
Does any one of these idiots have any idea how many hours I have been in planes and airports for nothing

Imagine all other misery caused by this wild strike to airlines/companies and people, Thank you idiots.

[regi]

Well I was a victim of this wild strike and a very unhappy one.
I needed to be at the funeral of a family member 29 September at 11am.
I left my home at Udon Thani Thailand on 28 September at 12am to catch the 15.25 Thai Airways to Suvarnabhumi Bangkok airport and to connect with Etihad BKK-AUH EY401 leaving 20.35.
Got both boarding cards, thus for AUH-BRU EY57 leaving 29 Sept 02.45 ariving BRU 07.55.
Landed AUH 28 Sept at 23.45 to discover AUH-BRU delayed to 09.00 due to wild strike.
Etihad booked a hotel at Rotana 20 min bus ride from AUH airport where we (40/50 people) arived at 02.00.
Wake up call at 06.00, shower and breakfast, bus to airport at 07.00, depart as planned 09.00, landed BRU at 14.25.

Thus I missed funeral due to these belgocontrol unhappy people.
Imagine NO money on the planet will ease my anger in regard with these people who clearly haver NO decency.
Nice from Etihad to have taken care of their passengers and provide them with some extra sleep.
Does any one of these idiots have any idea how many hours I have been in planes and airports for nothing

Imagine all other misery caused by this wild strike to airlines/companies and people, Thank you idiots.

First of all: sad that you have to leave LoS for a funeral back home and probably arrange some family matters. Several of my acquintances live nearby Udorn (semi)retired. One of them even gives a lecture next Sathurday about retirement in LoS at the Thai centre at Koekelare.
Secondly, you react as I have reacted on strikes, that gave me great disconfort, and you have the sympathy of most members I suppose.
Thirdly, try to take distance from it because you only get more upset the more you think about it. A Thai attitude could help here a bit. What's done is done.
Fourth: to end with a positive and informative note: I hope you have enroled for the frequent flyer program of Etihad. The points add up quite quickly.

[regi]

another European example , showing that there is a war going on between employers and employed.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2010 ... ke-ballots

1 part is what I try to warn people about :
concern that unofficial wildcat strikes were starting to break out, using social networking to evade the law, which it described as "particularly worrying"

[airazurxtror]

Ryanair shall take legal action after the last unannounced strike of Belgocontrol.

http://www.ryanair.com/en/news/ryanair- ... -atc-chaos

So far in 2010, Ryanair has been forced to cancel 1,400 flights and delay over 12,000 other flights, disrupting over 2.5m passengers, as a direct result of Belgian, French and Spanish ATC strikes and work to rules.
Ryanair will now take legal action against Belgocontrol following the wildcat strikes in Belgium last Tuesday, which caused the cancelation of over 90 Ryanair flights, disrupting over 15,000 passengers.

Keep up the good work, Michael !

[regi]

The anouncement is full of mistakes.

EU Govt owned and mismanaged ATC services
the EU Govts who own the ATCs
Since when does the EU own ATC services ?

Ryanair, Europe’s favourite airline
except of this self declaration, I don't read that on some offical paper.

and hold EU Governments and passengers to ransom
I have never seen a statement of gangsters asking for ransom money.

without any financial penalty
sorry , but when you strike, you lose your salary, and that is already a financial penalty. In case of not recognised strikes, you receive no money from your union.