Rumor in Brazil: SQ on SIN-GRU via BRU or BCN

[RoMax]

If you combine all the Sonaca and Arcelor demand potential, you wouldn't be able to fill a single B772ER per year.

It's not just Sonaca and Arcelor. More and more Belgian companies start activities in Brazil and like I said before, Belgian delegations are frequently in negotiations with airlines wich could start GRU-BRU. Brazil is just like many Asian countries a really booming market. In 2009 many belgian companies asked Embraer to open some kind of European base in Belgium/Brussels. Embraer responded and said they are evaluating to do something in Belgium, but a non-stop service between GRU and BRU would help, they said.
TAM and SQ could both start this route, but SQ could have the advantage of pax comming from SIN and Europe/Africa flying to GRU. While TAM can probably don't fill the same amount of seats.

About the aircraft, I would think of a B772ER. But a lot will depend on how many pax will fly SIN-GRU, if there is a very high demand for this route we could see more. Altough I don't think a B77W would be suited.

[flightlover]

Note that SQ know the South American market. They used to fly cgo there (almost same period and destinations as CBB at that time)

Don't know why they gave up after CBB went broke.

SQ Cargo is going to choose between BRU and AMS for their European cargo hub (they know it already ) . They have in meantime transferred some flights to AMS. Note that SQ cargo has also a flight on Sunday from BRU to AMS.

The time, three years ago, that we could see three B744F of SQ at the same time at Brucargo is history.

Please enlighten us with your knowledge. You say A, you need to say B

It seems obvious to me they have chosen AMS though in the world of airlines one can never be shure.
Just have a look at the eTimetable at their website and search for ex-SIN in combination with AMS and BRU.
It's 8 vs 1 in favor of AMS (in full freighter that is: B744 with flightcode 7...).

Or you can have a look every day at the Cargo arrivals page at the BRU airport website.
Not so long ago there where 5 difrent SQ-flight codes a day, now at best 3, and that's only once or twice a week.
(do other airports have such a public page??)

Also a lot of build-up freight (export) get's trucked to AMS.


**edit**: but this is maybe a bit off topic

[regi]

Note that SQ know the South American market. They used to fly cgo there (almost same period and destinations as CBB at that time)

Don't know why they gave up after CBB went broke.

SQ Cargo is going to choose between BRU and AMS for their European cargo hub (they know it already ) . They have in meantime transferred some flights to AMS. Note that SQ cargo has also a flight on Sunday from BRU to AMS.

The time, three years ago, that we could see three B744F of SQ at the same time at Brucargo is history.

Is this decision depending on the results of the start of the TG cargo to AMS, which is very succesful ?

[regi]

If you combine all the Sonaca and Arcelor demand potential, you wouldn't be able to fill a single B772ER per year.

It's not just Sonaca and Arcelor. More and more Belgian companies start activities in Brazil and like I said before, Belgian delegations are frequently in negotiations with airlines wich could start GRU-BRU. Brazil is just like many Asian countries a really booming market. In 2009 many belgian companies asked Embraer to open some kind of European base in Belgium/Brussels. Embraer responded and said they are evaluating to do something in Belgium, but a non-stop service between GRU and BRU would help, they said.
TAM and SQ could both start this route, but SQ could have the advantage of pax comming from SIN and Europe/Africa flying to GRU. While TAM can probably don't fill the same amount of seats.

About the aircraft, I would think of a B772ER. But a lot will depend on how many pax will fly SIN-GRU, if there is a very high demand for this route we could see more. Altough I don't think a B77W would be suited.

This NCB-person is really unbelievable. I just gave 2 examples - saying it are just examples - and the response is that it is not enough to fill a single airplane a year.
First of all : if this person would have taken the effort to look at what Sonaca does together with Embraer, he would be surprised.
Secondly, if this person would have informed himself and realised that the largest investment by Mittal is in Brasil, taken together that the most innovative engineering company in the steel industry ( Paul Wurth in Luxembourg ) is a part of Arcelor Mittal, he has no clue where he talks about. Despite internet and 3D files, the presence of people on the job floor is still necesarry.
And as Mr-Boeing said: it is not just Sonaca and Arcelor. And it is not just business.
And what Africa concerns, SQ does Cairo, J'Burg and Cape Town. And the interest is increasing. If you look around at J'burg how many Asian airlines come here, you are surprised.

[cnc]

If you combine all the Sonaca and Arcelor demand potential, you wouldn't be able to fill a single B772ER per year.

It's not just Sonaca and Arcelor. More and more Belgian companies start activities in Brazil and like I said before, Belgian delegations are frequently in negotiations with airlines wich could start GRU-BRU. Brazil is just like many Asian countries a really booming market. In 2009 many belgian companies asked Embraer to open some kind of European base in Belgium/Brussels. Embraer responded and said they are evaluating to do something in Belgium, but a non-stop service between GRU and BRU would help, they said.
TAM and SQ could both start this route, but SQ could have the advantage of pax comming from SIN and Europe/Africa flying to GRU. While TAM can probably don't fill the same amount of seats.

About the aircraft, I would think of a B772ER. But a lot will depend on how many pax will fly SIN-GRU, if there is a very high demand for this route we could see more. Altough I don't think a B77W would be suited.

This NCB-person is really unbelievable. I just gave 2 examples - saying it are just examples - and the response is that it is not enough to fill a single airplane a year.
First of all : if this person would have taken the effort to look at what Sonaca does together with Embraer, he would be surprised.
Secondly, if this person would have informed himself and realised that the largest investment by Mittal is in Brasil, taken together that the most innovative engineering company in the steel industry ( Paul Wurth in Luxembourg ) is a part of Arcelor Mittal, he has no clue where he talks about. Despite internet and 3D files, the presence of people on the job floor is still necesarry.
And as Mr-Boeing said: it is not just Sonaca and Arcelor. And it is not just business.
And what Africa concerns, SQ does Cairo, J'Burg and Cape Town. And the interest is increasing. If you look around at J'burg how many Asian airlines come here, you are surprised.

well you can also think in the other direction, there are belgian companies everywhere in the world and from all over the world there are companies in belgium but that doesn't justify to have a route to every single airport in the world. I didn't take the 787 in account so i might actually be too pessimistic though

[RoMax]

well you can also think in the other direction, there are belgian companies everywhere in the world and from all over the world there are companies in belgium but that doesn't justify to have a route to every single airport in the world. I didn't take the 787 in account so i might actually be too pessimistic though

Brazil is another story. It's just like some Asian countries a really booming country. Since a few years many Belgian companies are really focussing on Brazil and many belgian companies are together with Embraer talking with airlines to open a non-stop route between belgium and Brazil. And it are not only the companies, also tourism to Brazil is growing fast.
When SQ is the one to start BRU-GRU, they also have a big amount of passengers comming from Singapore flying to GRU. Because of that SQ could fill more seats than TAM, but if SQ will not start this route, TAM will do it in the future.
The market SIN-BRU on it's own is too small, so if we want to have SQ in BRU it must be in an operation like this (so in combination with another destination).

[Atlantis]

BRIC (Brazil/Rusia/India/China) are the future. Everyone knows that and is not new. It's only a matter of time and a lot of work has to be done first before you will see the first flight.

[cnc]

BRIC (Brazil/Rusia/India/China) are the future. Everyone knows that and is not new. It's only a matter of time and a lot of work has to be done first before you will see the first flight.

very true but that doesn't mean BRU has a future with it given the hard competition with AMS, FRA, CDG,...

[YYZ727]

does anyone know how the VASP flights from BRU to GRU did back in the nineties ?
I always thought they filled up quite well....

[BrightCedars]

VASP operated near daily at one point, or 7 times a week but on 6 days at least from BRU (2 flights on the same day). All were done by MD-11 I think. My memory is of reading that the load was good but that the yield was poor. This could of course be very different nowadays.

[cnc]

yes they had a rather large longhaul fleet consisted of DC10's and MD11's.

[sn26567]

If my memory serves me well, at one time all flights were codeshared with Sabena, which itself operated two of these flights per week. And some flights made a stop in Recife.

[nordikcam]

If my memory is good there was two SN flights and three VASP flights towards SAO PAOLO.
The flight SN was direct, the flights of VASP stopped for the one in RECIFE, the other one in SALVADOR, the last one being direct also.
I made stopover on the way out in RECIFE and on the way back to Bahia. The VASP flights continued they seem to me towards FRA but it was 20 years ago!

[regi]

BRIC (Brazil/Rusia/India/China) are the future. Everyone knows that and is not new. It's only a matter of time and a lot of work has to be done first before you will see the first flight.

Exactly. Who could predict the presence of Hainan , Jet Airways and Etihad at Brussels 10 years ago?
We have to be connected with Brasil ( again) for several reasons.

[capetown]

Don't forget the LAP (Lineas Aereas Paraguayas) flights that lasted well into the 1990's : Asuncion to Brussels (sometimes extended to FRA), with a stopover in Recife ... DC8's and 707's in the early days, DC10 towards the end of the service... Those were the days of the true exotic birds at BRU !

[Heterodyne]

Recently I read here that SQ is looking at opening a route between SIN and GRU, and is thinking about BCN and BRU as a stop on this route.
Today I saw a topic on airliners.net (http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forum ... n/4913812/) that IB is planning a BCN - GRU route. Will this make SQ consider BRU as the better alternative for their SIN - GRU route, as there is no competition on the BRU-GRU leg but now there will be on the BCN-GRU leg?

Cheers,
Heterodyne

[RoMax]

It seems that SQ is already waiting for some time to get Spanish goverment approval to fly SIN-BCN-GRU with 5th Freedom rights. But IB made clear that they want to operate BCN-GRU (togheter with some other BCN long haul routes).
That is a problem for SQ. Iberia and the Spanish government are always workin together against competitors. That's why it takes so much time for SQ (and why ther are looking at other airports) to get these 5th freedom rights (SQ will not do it without these rights). With IB claiming that they will start BCN-GRU, SQ will probably have to wait until IB is operating the route (and that could still take some time) and even than it's the question if SQ will get the 5th freedom rights.

So the question is, will SQ stay fighting for BCN or will they give up and go to another airport. If that's the case, BRU makes a big chance. If they get Spanish government approval with the 5th freedom rights, they will fly trough BCN. But currently it seems, IB and the Spanish government are working against SQ and that's an advantage for BRU.

[BrightCedars]

Well, I don't think this is a very fair way of doing business on the account of IB and the Spanish Government.

I'm still skeptic about a BCN-GRU route, whoever operates it, seeing that even if there is high yield traffic you need a good mix of all for a route to be structurally and sustainably profitable. TP being the regional and continental champion to Brazil, I'm not seeing IB succeed at that route, even SQ have better chances as they are both members of Star Alliance.

However I do hope this may yield a backup plan at SQ to use BRU instead of BCN. Honestly I think SQ should look at an Africa point to connect SIN and GRU, the problem with a place like DKR is that the SIN-DKR leg is rather long even though the overall distance is shorter than via Europe.

[tolipanebas]

Spain has given formal approval to SQ to operate 3 weekly flights between BCN-GRU in codeshare with Spanair....

In fact, technically speeking the route is given to Spanair, which will have it operated by codeshare partner Singapore Airlines, but okay, the result is the same

http://www.europapress.es/economia/tran ... 94500.html

Guess no BRU-GRU by SQ anytime soon.

[RoMax]

Guess no BRU-GRU by SQ anytime soon.

Let's "hope" for TAM.