Newspapers report the spin and subsequent crash of a glider 1 km north of the Saint-Hubert airfield, near the prison.
A young woman from Hannut, aged 17, is reported to have been the sole occupant of the glider. She's in serious condition and has been taken by helicopter to a hospital in Liège.
She's not part of the CNVV (Centre National de Vol à Voile) but used a glider from the Aero club des Ardennes.
Glider down at EBSH (13/8/2010)
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airazurxtror
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Re: Glider down at EBSH (13/8/2010)
According to RTL News this evening, the young pilot has not survived :
http://www.rtlinfo.be/info/belgique/fai ... int-hubert
http://www.rtlinfo.be/info/belgique/fai ... int-hubert
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Gliderpilot
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Re: Glider down at EBSH (13/8/2010)
Really a very sad year for the Belgian gliding community. 
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jan_olieslagers
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Re: Glider down at EBSH (13/8/2010)
All my sympathy for her family and relatives, herself must now be living blue skies forever. Fare thee well!
Re: Glider down at EBSH (13/8/2010)
There have been too many reports lately about fatal crashes in Belgium or by Belgians by ULM and now by a glider.
It is not more the occasional mishap.
A simple explanation could be that there are just more movements. ( I won't repeat my remark about autogyro's since I learned that they are not allowed here )
It is not more the occasional mishap.
A simple explanation could be that there are just more movements. ( I won't repeat my remark about autogyro's since I learned that they are not allowed here )
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jan_olieslagers
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Re: Glider down at EBSH (13/8/2010)
Regi, there is NO relation between flying a glider and flying an ultralight. The number of mishaps with ultralights has been very high recently, and questions cab be asked, and are being asked by insiders.
But gliding is really a different cup of tea.
And please stop whining about your precious autogyro's, if you think they are intrinsically immune to pilot error or mechanical problems I'll find you some accident investigation reports.
But gliding is really a different cup of tea.
And please stop whining about your precious autogyro's, if you think they are intrinsically immune to pilot error or mechanical problems I'll find you some accident investigation reports.
Re: Glider down at EBSH (13/8/2010)
I wrote that I won't repeat my remark about autogyro's and you say I must stop whining.jan_olieslagers wrote:Regi, there is NO relation between flying a glider and flying an ultralight. The number of mishaps with ultralights has been very high recently, and questions cab be asked, and are being asked by insiders.
But gliding is really a different cup of tea.
And please stop whining about your precious autogyro's, if you think they are intrinsically immune to pilot error or mechanical problems I'll find you some accident investigation reports.
Won't means will not.
I did not whine.
Is my English not clear enough?
Re: Glider down at EBSH (13/8/2010)
By the way, in some Belgian media articles, the aircraft was named sometimes a glider, and sometimes a ULM. It is clear that our media lacks precision.jan_olieslagers wrote:Regi, there is NO relation between flying a glider and flying an ultralight. The number of mishaps with ultralights has been very high recently, and questions cab be asked, and are being asked by insiders.
But gliding is really a different cup of tea.
And please stop whining about your precious autogyro's, if you think they are intrinsically immune to pilot error or mechanical problems I'll find you some accident investigation reports.
http://www.vandaag.be/binnenland/43960_ ... aring.html
And those reactions are also "a bit" over the edge.
If she had obtained her licence, it means that she was regarded as capable.
Technical question:
she was caught in a spin. Would a parachute attached to the glider have helped in this case to bring her down unharmed?
Re: Glider down at EBSH (13/8/2010)
Hello everybody, I am flying in Saint-Hubert since 2004. During this time, I never saw a glider down until this last friday! The idea to compare Glider and ULM is simply not good. For me there is a world of differences between this two subjects because I know what I am talking about and I also know that everybody is not flying on gliders or ULM.
If you want to talk about media and the general idea of poeple, go haed... The work of journalist is not simple. Try to put yourself in an environement you don't know for only the time to have enough informations about something and then write an article about it... Let me tell you that your article will be far from perfect!The best exemple is TF1 some weeks ago when they had the idea that the "Wallonie" was on the upper side of the country. That is for me, the same reason why they talked about ULM when they were thinking about gliders.
Anyway, the reason of this crash was apparently a pilot error. I was not on site when it happens but a friend told me that she was low when the glider started spinning. There will be an investigation!
The idea of parachute already exist. The Janus (type of glider) are sometimes equipped with it. It can save lifes, but not in all the situations.
The KA-6 is a "old" glider (the glider who crashed friday). Don't forget that the "aeroclub des ardennes" where she was flying is an asbl, like all the others clubs in our country (except belgian air cadet). They don't have the money to buy everything new from the manufacturer.
We can talk about everything, we can start to make a new world if you want to. But it happens and it will again. "Sadly news I know".
Take just the time by now to tell yourself, you guy's flying and future flyers, that I can happens to everybody of us.
Flying gliders is safe, I saw every summer hundreds of stagiaires doing their first solo, flying again and growing.
I knew Coraline and I don't believe yet what happened... RIP.
If you want to talk about media and the general idea of poeple, go haed... The work of journalist is not simple. Try to put yourself in an environement you don't know for only the time to have enough informations about something and then write an article about it... Let me tell you that your article will be far from perfect!The best exemple is TF1 some weeks ago when they had the idea that the "Wallonie" was on the upper side of the country. That is for me, the same reason why they talked about ULM when they were thinking about gliders.
Anyway, the reason of this crash was apparently a pilot error. I was not on site when it happens but a friend told me that she was low when the glider started spinning. There will be an investigation!
The idea of parachute already exist. The Janus (type of glider) are sometimes equipped with it. It can save lifes, but not in all the situations.
The KA-6 is a "old" glider (the glider who crashed friday). Don't forget that the "aeroclub des ardennes" where she was flying is an asbl, like all the others clubs in our country (except belgian air cadet). They don't have the money to buy everything new from the manufacturer.
We can talk about everything, we can start to make a new world if you want to. But it happens and it will again
. "Sadly news I know".Take just the time by now to tell yourself, you guy's flying and future flyers, that I can happens to everybody of us.
Flying gliders is safe, I saw every summer hundreds of stagiaires doing their first solo, flying again and growing.
I knew Coraline and I don't believe yet what happened... RIP.
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Propwash
Re: Glider down at EBSH (13/8/2010)
Do you mean a Ballistic Rescue System?regi wrote:Technical question:
she was caught in a spin. Would a parachute attached to the glider have helped in this case to bring her down unharmed?
You don't need one if you fly (Aviate) first!
Always remember "Airspeed is life, Altitude is life insurance"
Re: Glider down at EBSH (13/8/2010)
yes, but there are some occasions where a parachute can be the life saver. My question was:Propwash wrote:Do you mean a Ballistic Rescue System?regi wrote:Technical question:
she was caught in a spin. Would a parachute attached to the glider have helped in this case to bring her down unharmed?
You don't need one if you fly (Aviate) first!
Always remember "Airspeed is life, Altitude is life insurance"
would a parachute be a life saver in case of a spin?
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Propwash
Re: Glider down at EBSH (13/8/2010)
Depends on AGL Altituderegi wrote:yes, but there are some occasions where a parachute can be the life saver. My question was:
would a parachute be a life saver in case of a spin?
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Gliderpilot
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Re: Glider down at EBSH (13/8/2010)
There are indeed some gliders equipped with a rescue parachute system, but not the Janus afaik. Some Janus' have a parachute installed, but that is only for adding more drag to the airframe, because its airbrakes are very ineffective. That parachute is not going to safe your life.
As far as I know the only glider manufacturer to currently built a rescue parachute system in their gliders, is Schempp Hirth, in their Discus and Ventus 2bxR models. These gliders are too expensive to operate in clubs in Belgium.
This is the 2nd fatal glider accident in Belgium this year, my condolences to family and friends. So far it seems that both were pilot errors, so both could have been prevented... This makes me so sad.
Both have been more of a classic mistake, the first being faulty connected elevator, the 2nd too low speed in circuit pattern. As said before: Speed is life!
(@Propwash: When flying the final pattern in a glider, your height is almost never enough to recover form a spin, so there goes you life insurance. Also, when flying in the Ardennes, you altitude can be 2000ft, but your height being only 300ft. Altitude is generally referred to as being above sea level, when height is generally above ground level. That said, I think you must say 'Airspeed is life, height is life insurance'.)
Having a gliding and ppl license, my opinion too, is that gliding and ULM are totally not comparable. Over the past few years, gliding is being more regulated then ever (EASA) and safety has improved, but it has also become a lot more expensive.
The problem with ULM seems to me, that it is wrongly regulated, by this I do not mean 'under-regulated', and a lack of discipline among (some) pilots. Being in the (belgian) aviation 'world' for some time now, and spoken to a lot of pilot from all sorts (gliding, ulm, ppl, atpl, ...) I have made my mind.
As far as I know the only glider manufacturer to currently built a rescue parachute system in their gliders, is Schempp Hirth, in their Discus and Ventus 2bxR models. These gliders are too expensive to operate in clubs in Belgium.
This is the 2nd fatal glider accident in Belgium this year, my condolences to family and friends. So far it seems that both were pilot errors, so both could have been prevented... This makes me so sad.
Both have been more of a classic mistake, the first being faulty connected elevator, the 2nd too low speed in circuit pattern. As said before: Speed is life!
(@Propwash: When flying the final pattern in a glider, your height is almost never enough to recover form a spin, so there goes you life insurance. Also, when flying in the Ardennes, you altitude can be 2000ft, but your height being only 300ft. Altitude is generally referred to as being above sea level, when height is generally above ground level. That said, I think you must say 'Airspeed is life, height is life insurance'.)
Having a gliding and ppl license, my opinion too, is that gliding and ULM are totally not comparable. Over the past few years, gliding is being more regulated then ever (EASA) and safety has improved, but it has also become a lot more expensive.
The problem with ULM seems to me, that it is wrongly regulated, by this I do not mean 'under-regulated', and a lack of discipline among (some) pilots. Being in the (belgian) aviation 'world' for some time now, and spoken to a lot of pilot from all sorts (gliding, ulm, ppl, atpl, ...) I have made my mind.
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jan_olieslagers
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Re: Glider down at EBSH (13/8/2010)
The current ULM-regulations were created for rag and tube craft; but some contemporary ultralights are as performant than the average PPL spamcan, or even more. People can now obtain a valid Belgian ultralight license on such a rag and tube machine, then acquire a high-performance machine like an MCR01 or FK14 and go cruising at double the speed and thrice the altidude, without ever any experience or tuition.
I suppose our authorities are waiting for the EASA Light Sports regulations - which might also explain the lack of regulation for autogyro's.
As for BRS and spinning: BRS's can be life-savers, especially in the otherwise doomed case of structural failure. There was a case recently in the UK, on a Cirrus ISTR. But spins are rarely developed at heights (not altitudes, indeed!) sufficient for either recovery or BRS deployment; they are most to be dreaded on turning base to final, where a thousand points are solliciting the pilot's concentration, making it easy to forget the main priorities, such as airspeed.
BTW one difference between PPL and ultralight is that a PPL-pilot must learn to recover from a spin, whereas an ultralight pilot is strictly forbidden to enter one.
@Gliderpilot: I think I understand what you are hinting at, and heartily agree. There's a couple of ULM'odromes South of Brussels that I carefully avoid. Just as an example, of course. Generally - but there do be exceptions - I prefer flying at PPL aerodromes that also accept ultralights, rather than at ULM-only places where the lack of proper airmanship can sometimes be disconcerting.
I suppose our authorities are waiting for the EASA Light Sports regulations - which might also explain the lack of regulation for autogyro's.
As for BRS and spinning: BRS's can be life-savers, especially in the otherwise doomed case of structural failure. There was a case recently in the UK, on a Cirrus ISTR. But spins are rarely developed at heights (not altitudes, indeed!) sufficient for either recovery or BRS deployment; they are most to be dreaded on turning base to final, where a thousand points are solliciting the pilot's concentration, making it easy to forget the main priorities, such as airspeed.
BTW one difference between PPL and ultralight is that a PPL-pilot must learn to recover from a spin, whereas an ultralight pilot is strictly forbidden to enter one.
@Gliderpilot: I think I understand what you are hinting at, and heartily agree. There's a couple of ULM'odromes South of Brussels that I carefully avoid. Just as an example, of course. Generally - but there do be exceptions - I prefer flying at PPL aerodromes that also accept ultralights, rather than at ULM-only places where the lack of proper airmanship can sometimes be disconcerting.