Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

[regi]

But...I told you already that the distance between Zaventem and Lille Lesquin is 129 km with a travelling time of 1.16h. ( check viamichelin ) That is not 2 hours.
And you will have to leave your car behind anyway, is it not in Zaventem it will be in Lille. If family drives you to Lille, they can also drive you to Brussels.

Secondly, what your African destinations concern:
Air Algérie and Royal Air Maroc have direct flights from Lille, so you don't need to travel to CDG or Brussels.
Both airlines have quite a lot of African destinations. ( with narrow bodies to suit your will to fly narrow bodies in Africa )

About options:
the TGV goes in 37 minutes to Brussels...costing +- 26 euro 1 way. Oh, you forgot about that option?

Have you heard about carbon foot print ? Can you defend a 15 minutes flight between Lille and BRU if you can take a high speed train of 37 minutes ? ( OK, you still need to get the airport city express, every 15 minutes or so )

I can not understand why you still want to defend a flight between Lille and Brussels by Q400NG.
Your figures are wrong.
Even the stubborn Americans start to realise that this is wrong. They invest now massively in high speed trains as well. Even the airlines realise that the European solution is better than the American:

In 2002, the Texas High Speed Rail and Transportation Corporation [3] (THSRTC), a grass roots organization dedicated to bringing high speed rail to Texas was established. In 2006, American Airlines and Continental Airlines formally joined THSRTC, in an effort to bring high speed rail to Texas as a passenger collector system for the airlines. The Texas High Speed Rail and Transportation Corporation developed the Texas T-Bone and Brazos Express corridors to link Central Texas

[tolipanebas]

One last thing about your famous source. What does your source think about you publishing all these matters? I bet you the source wouldn't like it too much. So the source either doesn't surf on forums like this one, or isn't directly connected to you, or you are the source.

What are you talking about?
it might come as a shock to somebody who doesn't come closer to knowing an airline than visiting their website, but a source needn't be a single person working for an airline, it can very well be the perfect understanding of the ins and outs of how SN works, based on my many professional contacts.
Or are you doubting I don't know the ins and out of SN far better than you do?
I've wiped you out on factual data numerous times here before over things which only became public knowledge later (ask sdbelgium for instance), whereas you still have to provide us with the first piece of information that hasn't been picked directly from a manufacturer's or other public forum site in any of your plans!

BTW, you haven't aswered the main question yet: what is your hand-on experience in airline management? I'd really like to know which company you've apparenlty consulted, which airline you've apparently personally run, which network you have apparently reshaped and turned around? Given you clearly think to know it all better and feel so well positioned to dismiss LH's top-management team as nothing but a bunch of total idiots, I expect to read some very very big names here... Or is it just limited to Air Daydream?

[tolipanebas]

Suppose that I am a passenger generating in Lille. Today I have the following options:
A: Take a 30 minutes TGV ride right into the airport of CDG from Lille Europe station
B: Take a 2 hour drive to BRU with a taxi or own car, using the car park. Make it 3 hours during rush hours.

Don't limit yourself to just 2 options, as option C is the killer really:

C: take one of the North African based airlines serving LIL numerous times a day to connect dirt cheap and more directly to AFI.

SN is known to be looking into adding flights to the West of France, but no surprise, it ain't going to be LIL; if you want any route in France to work, you'll need to fill the plane with more than just VFR traffic connecting in BRU; you'll need to fill it with ptp traffic as well as STAR alliance feed, neither of the 2 is going to be widely available to/from a nearby destination like LIL as nobody is going to drive from Gent,Liege, Antwerp to BRU to fly to LIL for instance!

Now, consider NTE or BOD however and your case becomes already more attractive, with a better chance of turning a profit than LIL!

[Air Key West]

As regards Lille, wouldn't the ideal solution be for the TGV trains to continue to BRU railway station instead of stopping at Bruxelles-Midi/BrusseZuid ? Or it there a major obstacle to do this ?
Plan B would be for the NMBS/SNCB to arrange "same platform" transfers at Bruxelles-Midi/Brussel-Zuid between the TGVs from Lille and the trains leaving for the airport (and vv.).
An air connection is, of course, out of the question from/to Lille.

[Megaman]

Sn will have the same airplanes as LH. Once sn is 100 percent owned by LH, all that remains is the brand. You can probably expect to see planes shared accross the group and why not all rebranded to the LH livery. I doubt brussels airlines is a strong brand in africa (only a few years old) and if it is, all you need is for the name to show up in adds and check-in. This will optimalize the fleet for LH group. Remember VLM? Besides if you can choose and if prices are the same, the LH product is just too superior vs. Brussels airlines product.

[Conti764]

As regards Lille, wouldn't the ideal solution be for the TGV trains to continue to BRU railway station instead of stopping at Bruxelles-Midi/BrusseZuid ? Or it there a major obstacle to do this ?
Plan B would be for the NMBS/SNCB to arrange "same platform" transfers at Bruxelles-Midi/Brussel-Zuid between the TGVs from Lille and the trains leaving for the airport (and vv.).
An air connection is, of course, out of the question from/to Lille.

Problem is that as long as Diabolo isn't finished the airport station is highly inefficient. It requires entering the end station, turn around and leave again.

If Diabolo is ready, they could implement Brussels Airport into the overall Thalys network. And create two axes: north-south and east-west.

North-South: Amsterdam CS - Rotterdam CS - Brussels Airport - Lille Flandres - Paris Nord

East-West: Cologne - Liege - Brussels Airport - Brussels South - Ostend

Another option to replace or supplement air travel:

London - Brussels South - Brussels Airport on Eurostar.

Of course all these lines are pure theory. I don't dare to say all these lines will materialize, but it's just an example of the importance of Diabolo. But Thalys is a commerical entity, not a state run like the NMBS. And for them to open up routes via Brussels Airport, there has to be a market. Maybe BRU and SN (and their respective partners) could charter Thalys trains in the future.

And there are huge opportunities for the national service as well. If they really want to optimize the usage of the BRU train station they could organize national lines into the airport. If they make sure those trains arive at the airport around 5.30 - 6.00 AM the catch a lot of BRU employee traffic as well.

So far for the non-aviation reply

[jan_olieslagers]

North-South: Amsterdam CS - Rotterdam CS - Brussels Airport - Lille Flandres - Paris Nord

Certain forces in Belgium take it as a granted right that every long-distance train has to pass through the Brussels North-South junction - they'll not lightly accept such an operation. But how long can they still stem the rising tide of free trade? The idea seems viable enough, but as you said some operator must be found to go for it. Fyra is the obvious candidate. BTW such an operation might also catch a good deal of traffic at Antwerpen, Mechelen, and Euro-Schumann station. Bypassing the North-South junction along the eastern parallel line 26 and/or the Josaphat tunnel being constructed.

London - Brussels South - Brussels Airport on Eurostar.

This would require customs facilities in the airport's train station - not impossible, but not easy either. And not included in the present Diabolo planning, AFAIK. Then again, what Briton would travel the Chunnel to take a plane on the silly continent, with a broader offer available closer to home? Expensive, few prospects - this is a no-goner.

BTW these matters have been discussed in depth at www.hgbtf.net - those that master Dutch language may learn much there, several members are Belgian railway professionals.

[Air Key West]

I was not thinking of a Thalys train between Lille and BRU since Thalys is a separate company which operates high speed trains between Paris-Brussels-Amsterdam and Paris-Brussels-Cologne, but I was thinking of TGVs (Trains à Grande Vitesse) which are operated by the SNCF (French National Railways) and with which it would, in my opinion, be easier for SNCB/NMBS (Belgian National Railways) to set up a co-operation for TGVs to continue to BRU.
But as other guests on this forum said, this will probably be easier when the Diabolo project is completed (and as I said before, this project should have been completed twenty years ago, and why does it always take ages in this country to complete a project once it is decided to go ahead with it ? Well, we know the answer, I think ).

[flightlover]

I was not thinking of a Thalys train between Lille and BRU since Thalys is a separate company which operates high speed trains between Paris-Brussels-Amsterdam and Paris-Brussels-Cologne, but I was thinking of TGVs (Trains à Grande Vitesse) which are operated by the SNCF (French National Railways) and with which it would, in my opinion, be easier for SNCB/NMBS (Belgian National Railways) to set up a co-operation for TGVs to continue to BRU.
But as other guests on this forum said, this will probably be easier when the Diabolo project is completed (and as I said before, this project should have been completed twenty years ago, and why does it always take ages in this country to complete a project once it is decided to go ahead with it ? Well, we know the answer, I think ).

Don't forget, NMBS is a partner in THALYS. So it seems to me more logic to see them doing it thrue THALYS iso TGV. Though it might be another company aswel as the rail market will be open in a few years.

[regi]

conclusion: no Q400NG as replacement of the Avro's and B737.

[regi]

seems that somebody reads my remark about Q400 and SAS...
http://www.news.com.au/travel/news/qant ... 5908223526

[NCB]

Seems someone reads Tolipanebas' comments as well: http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forum ... in/4906266

A320 to replace Avro RJ. Really? How can that make any sense?

Perhaps mr. Regi should know that SAS ordered a whole bunch of new Q400NG's for its subsidiary Wideroe as a compensation deal with Bombardier, which by the way have redesigned landing gears that no longer have the problems.

What is the problem mr. Regi? Why does a respectable pilot post so much non-sense?

There are a few decent comments on the following thread, and people do love the aircraft. Food for thought for the Q400 bashers: http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forum ... n/4905695/

The Q400NG is going to be even better, what else is there to say.

[RoMax]

Seems someone reads Tolipanebas' comments as well: http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forum ... in/4906266

A320 to replace Avro RJ. Really? How can that make any sense?

NCB, I've heard some very interesting things last days. Maybe they aren't completely correct, maybe they are correct. But one thing is very sure, you are going to be VERY suprised the comming months/year. You really don't get the point, lukely they get it at LH/OS/LX/SN and several other airliners around this world.
You are so sure about yourself that you don't want to believe us. Maybe you will believe it when it will happen. I will not go into detail, but today and yesterday I've heard some really interessting things about SN's future. And I don't gonne tell you (or anybody else)what I've heard, but you are gonne be SO suprised.
But until you will hear everything official you can dream on about your Q400's.

[NCB]

The only way I'm going to be surprised is if the board decides to go for Q400NG.

Numerous and numerous times, I have written in this thread:

I don't expect SN to go for a large Q400 fleet but that is what I would do

So Mr. Boeing puts words in other people mouths? You lost credibility, who is ever going to believe you again?
There are 3000 rumours going around, I even overheard cabin crew talking about the A318. Different departments with different rumours.
The decision has not been made yet and we know what the options are. Believe me or not, SN can not afford to replace Avro RJ's by A320's, let alone A319 or A318 or CS100. Dream on, I would say.

[134flyer]

So Mr. Boeing puts words in other people mouths? You lost credibility, who is ever going to believe you again?

Well, after reading all the comments from most here, I do know who has lost all credibility here and it's certainly not MR_Boeing!

[tolipanebas]

A320 to replace Avro RJ. Really? How can that make any sense?

Because there's not going to be a linear replacement of an RJ85 by an A320 on any particular route of course, but rather a cascade shift which will see the smallest planes dropped from the fleet while bigger planes are added at the top, thus increasing capacity throughout much of the network, just as I've said a zillion times.

Next year 5 RJ85s should leave the fleet and flights operated by those planes will mostly be operated by the remaining RJ100s in future; now obviously that means pulling off some RJ100s from their current routes and there the additional Airbusses will then be used on.

As such the capacity increase from replacing an RJ85 by an Airbus is not as insane as you may think at first sight and is definitely NOT limited to just those routes the RJ85s are currently used on, but rather will be more moderate yet also more spread out over the entire network, just as is required.

It's a standard method to gradually build up capacity used by LH before at LX and currently also being used at OS.... expect the same method to be used at SN too.

[RoMax]

So Mr. Boeing puts words in other people mouths? You lost credibility, who is ever going to believe you again?
There are 3000 rumours going around, I even overheard cabin crew talking about the A318. Different departments with different rumours.
The decision has not been made yet and we know what the options are. Believe me or not, SN can not afford to replace Avro RJ's by A320's, let alone A319 or A318 or CS100. Dream on, I would say.

As you don't know were I'm talking about, you should shut up really.
Of course SN will not replace it's whole RJ fleet with A32S (E170/E190 will probably be the biggest part of the replacement), but they will shift a lot in the network like Tolipanebas said. That will result in A32S operating on current RJ100 routes and RJ100's operating on current RJ85 routes.
The things I heard yesterday are not rumours were you are talking about.

And about lost credibility, you should better look at yourself before being critical about others. I don't know everything, and I'm not the most smart member of this forum, but I think most members agree more with me than with you. If you want respect, have respect for others.

[Atlantis]

Calm down people, it's not necessary to be nasty.

Everyone has some good points and some bad but that's normal when everyone has his opinion but let us be polite.

[pge71]

I hope SN will not go for A318, I was part of the team of an airline who bought some A318 (called "the ugly duck"), which is a shorter and worse version of A319.

[dsa330]

I hope SN will not go for A318, I was part of the team of an airline who bought some A318 (called "the ugly duck"), which is a shorter and worse version of A319.

i'd be quite amazed if they would, i taught the fuel consumption of those birds was way high...?
could be wrong tho.

i stand my ground, and i expect a few more 319's, 320's, maybe a 321, and then for the shorter, less demanding routes, embrears or alike... i don't think they'll be going turboprop or 318.

but that's just how I think of it so don't shoot me