SN to take over Club Med pax from TNT at BRU

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RoMax
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Re: SN to take over TNT pax flights at BRU

Post by RoMax »

fcw wrote:TNT stopped flying for Club Med because they were loosing money , as did a lot of other charter companies in the past.
BruAir will increase his loadfactor, but will probably loose money on it too!
That will depend on how they will operte these flights. If SN will sell it's own tickets on these flights they can make it work. Another thing is that it will be b-flex tickets, so if they can get enough passengers they can make profit.
SN will probably think/hope they can do it, otherwise they wouldn't sign such a big contract for 3 years. BTW, with LH having 45% of the shares, do they have to agree with this before SN can sign the contract?

sdbelgium
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Re: SN to take over TNT pax flights at BRU

Post by sdbelgium »

MR_Boeing wrote:Another thing is that it will be b-flex tickets, so if they can get enough passengers they can make profit.
I'm not sure how you mean this. These b.flex tickets were probably sold for rock bottom prices to Club Med. To leisure destinations such as Athens or Seville, where b.light capacity is obviously needed, these Club Med passenger might end up taking seats that could have been sold for a much higher price to 'regular' revenue b.flex passengers. Not that I'm hoping for it, but I can imagine this can be the situation in some cases.
MR_Boeing wrote:BTW, with LH having 45% of the shares, do they have to agree with this before SN can sign the contract?
I would suppose so, yes.

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RoMax
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Re: SN to take over TNT pax flights at BRU

Post by RoMax »

sdbelgium wrote:I'm not sure how you mean this. These b.flex tickets were probably sold for rock bottom prices to Club Med. To leisure destinations such as Athens or Seville, where b.light capacity is obviously needed, these Club Med passenger might end up taking seats that could have been sold for a much higher price to 'regular' revenue b.flex passengers. Not that I'm hoping for it, but I can imagine this can be the situation in some cases.
Of course these tickets are sold to Club Med for very low prices (altough they still should make money on them)but on routes like Faro, Athens... there aren't many b-flex passengers anyway. So I don't think they will take away (much) revenue from regular b-flex pax on these routes.
If Club Med delivers enough passengers they should operate profitable, but only at the condition that Club Med delivers enoug pax. But I can imagine that the price for the tickets will go up when Club Med delivers not enough passengers.
SN is not an airline wich takes dangerous risks, if anything could cost them (a lot)money they don't do it. (Think at the long haul fleet expansion wich goes very slow because of the financial risk.) And LH has to agree, and I don't think they would allow it when the risk is too big.

acba
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Re: SN to take over TNT pax flights at BRU

Post by acba »

You're taking me out of context, because later in the sentence I wrote:
"to operate the week-end schedule".
Sorry, but even 5 aircraft in the weekend, meaning about 10 medium haul charter flights is too big for only Club Med Belgium. (except for July/August maybe)

NCB

Re: SN to take over TNT pax flights at BRU

Post by NCB »

Yes, I was refering to the summer (more like June-September) of 2012.
For the rest of the year, obviously, there will be no problem in terms of capacity as I think that the replacement aircraft will start coming mid/end 2012. If they come sooner even better still but it'll depend on available delivery positions at Bombardier and Embraer. If they come later, I think that SN will need some interim lift using LH CR2 or maybe some RJ85's from Cityline as CR9's replace them?

Overall, it's a win-win for SN and Club Med and it'll be interesting to see if SN will open up sales to North Africa and Turkey to other customers as well.
Last edited by NCB on 12 Aug 2010, 18:46, edited 1 time in total.

airbuske
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Re: SN to take over TNT pax flights at BRU

Post by airbuske »

The partnership with Club Med will generate about 5% extra passenger revenues
Best regards,

Airbuske

GORKI
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Re: SN to take over TNT pax flights at BRU

Post by GORKI »

first of all change this topic title to "SN will fly for club med"
currently, TNT is operating only 1 (!) flight on B737 for club med which is RAK AGA on saturday(all year round)
about 70% of TNT pax flights are extra capacity for thomas cook and are thomas cook flights
The RAK AGA flight will disappear next winter because club med only cannot fill a B737 anymore as number of customers dropped significantly
egypt flights are covered by thomas cook since a couple of years
Therefore I would say that indeed only a very small part of the capacity of new airplanes would be used and only in summertime ( 5 aircraft in the weekend !? keep on dreaming!)
I would be suprised that revenues would be high as TNT operated at a very democratic price since the
operating costs for the B737 QC is already covered by its cargo flights outside the summer season

NCB

Re: SN to take over TNT pax flights at BRU

Post by NCB »

A partir d'avril 2011, le tour-opérateur Club Med confiera à Brussels Airlines 80 pc de ses vols affrétés au départ de Bruxelles, et ce pour une période de 3 ans.
Par ailleurs, le groupe français lance un programme intitulé "Focus Flandre 2010-2011" afin d'attirer plus de clients du nord du pays, a indiqué Philippe Mahouin, Manager général du Club Med pour la Belgique et le Luxembourg, mercredi lors d'une conférence de presse. Le Club Med a entamé, depuis 2004, son repositionnement pour proposer une qualité de service haut de gamme.

Dans cette logique, le tour-opérateur a désormais conclu un accord avec la compagnie Brussels Airlines. Le partenariat concernera dans un premier temps des destinations du bassin méditerranéen et du Moyen-Orient.

L'accord conclu représente environ 50.000 visiteurs supplémentaires par an pour Brussels Airlines, a estimé Bernard Gustin, co-CEO de la compagnie aérienne. La Belgique est actuellement, après la France, le marché le plus important pour le Club Med. Chaque année, près de 95.000 Belges profitent des offres du tour-opérateur et près de 70 pc de cette clientèle est francophone.

L'objectif du Club Med est désormais d'accroître sa clientèle néerlandophone. Pour ce faire, le tour-opérateur va étendre son réseau de vente en Flandre et engager de nombreux animateurs néerlandophones.
http://www.lalibre.be/economie/actualit ... 3-ans.html

Are we sure that SN is only going to take over TNT capacity?
Here it says that SN will be taking over 80% of Club Med's demand from BRU and SN CEO expects 50.000 Club Med travellers to use the airline every year.
Is it 50.000 seats or is it 100.000 seats ie 50.000 travellers doing a return trip? That could make a big difference.

acba
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Re: SN to take over TNT pax flights at BRU

Post by acba »

Are we sure that SN is only going to take over TNT capacity?
I think also the flights previously operated by Thomas Cook.

On the Club Med website I already get following SN flight:
BRU-TCP-HRG-BRU on Saturday 30/04 and 07/05
During the winter season these flights are still operated by FQ.

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tolipanebas
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Re: SN to take over TNT pax flights at BRU

Post by tolipanebas »

sdbelgium wrote:These b.flex tickets were probably sold for rock bottom prices to Club Med. To leisure destinations such as Athens or Seville, where b.light capacity is obviously needed, these Club Med passenger might end up taking seats that could have been sold for a much higher price to 'regular' revenue b.flex passengers. Not that I'm hoping for it, but I can imagine this can be the situation in some cases.
Of course package deals like these come at a reduced price, what did you expect?
The more seats you buy, the better the price gets; try booking tickets for a group of 10 pax online for instance? You're not even able to do so! As from 10 pax, you'll need to contact SN first and they'll quote a price for you, which is far better than what you'd get through the internet. Try it, if you don't believe me.... .

The interesting part to note here is the undeniable trend happening right now in that ever increasing numbers of seats on SN flights are indeed constantly going to be blocked out for individual point-to-point sales in future, either through increased numbers of codeshare-agreements with STAR alliance partners (on the many business destinations SN serve) or by tourists (on predominantly leasure destinations).
As you point out, this means SN would be having less seats to offer itself to the individual traveller... unless they increase the seating capacity of their fleet. :idea:

Coincidentally, isn't this matching exactly what I've said is the new LH fostered strategy of SN all along?
That the aim is to go to bigger planes on average? 8-)

The most heared remark is: "Heck they can't even fill an RJ, why the hell would they need more bigger planes and where are they going to find the extra pax to fill them?"
The answer should be pretty obvious now, doesn't it?
They need extra capacity not so much for the domestic point-to-point market but to accomodate pax sent to them by the ever increasing numbers of partners, be it STAR ALLIANCE or CLUB MED and for that they logically need bigger planes indeed, otherwise they would just distroy their yields.
Consider the idea of operating bigger planes however and you can keep the yield of the ptp traffic up, all while adding the revenues of the extra pax without any problem in return for a marginal operating cost increase and a seriously reduced unit cost even, thus considerably reducing the bottom line of the operations. 8-)

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RoMax
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Re: SN to take over TNT pax flights at BRU

Post by RoMax »

I've just read the article in "De tijd" about the contract with Club Med. And it states very clear that some routes will be charter only, but some other new routes will be open for the individual traveller:
Het aantal bestemmingen van Brussels Airlines zal door de samenwerking met Club Med verder uitbreiden, met onder meer Marrakech of Antalya. Een deel van de vluchten zal exclusief -volgens het charterprincipe- worden uitgevoerd voor Club Med. Het gaat dan bijvoorbeeld om de vluchten naar Egypte.

Andere bestemmingen zullen een gemengde samenstelling kennen, en dus ook opengesteld worden voor de individuele reiziger. Daarnaast zal Club Med ook gebruikmaken van een aantal lijnvluchten, bijvoorbeeld op Faro of Athene.
So now the question is, on wich destinations will SN sell it's own tickets and wich destinations will be charter only. As stated in the article, Egypt routes will be charters, but what about routes like Marrakech, Antalya, Agadir...?

sean1982
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Re: SN to take over TNT pax flights at BRU

Post by sean1982 »

Is jetair affected by this? Or didn't they fly for club med anyway?

Bralo20
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Re: SN to take over TNT pax flights at BRU

Post by Bralo20 »

tolipanebas wrote: Of course package deals like these come at a reduced price, what did you expect?
The more seats you buy, the better the price gets; try booking tickets for a group of 10 pax online for instance? You're not even able to do so! As from 10 pax, you'll need to contact SN first and they'll quote a price for you, which is far better than what you'd get through the internet. Try it, if you don't believe me.... .
Not necessary, I've booked group trips which I arranged (for a party of 10) and it was always cheaper to book less then 10 seats at one time. The quoted prices (TATL flights) were always more expensive when I wanted to book 10 tickets at once (with UA, SN, AA, DL, 9W, US, BA)... I ended up booking 2x 5 tickets instead...

cnc
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Re: SN to take over TNT pax flights at BRU

Post by cnc »

sean1982 wrote:Is jetair affected by this? Or didn't they fly for club med anyway?
nope

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tolipanebas
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Re: SN to take over TNT pax flights at BRU

Post by tolipanebas »

Bralo20 wrote:
tolipanebas wrote: Of course package deals like these come at a reduced price, what did you expect?
The more seats you buy, the better the price gets; try booking tickets for a group of 10 pax online for instance? You're not even able to do so! As from 10 pax, you'll need to contact SN first and they'll quote a price for you, which is far better than what you'd get through the internet. Try it, if you don't believe me.... .
Not necessary, I've booked group trips which I arranged (for a party of 10) and it was always cheaper to book less then 10 seats at one time. The quoted prices (TATL flights) were always more expensive when I wanted to book 10 tickets at once (with UA, SN, AA, DL, 9W, US, BA)... I ended up booking 2x 5 tickets instead...
That can happen indeed, if the airline is not able to adapt the seat capacity offered. in that case, they don't like you taking so many seats at once, as it seriously limits their sale potential further down...

It's another proof that airlines don't like it when they are sold out weeks before the flight and will thus move to bigger planes when possible, to remain offering seats...

Ricard
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Re: SN to take over TNT pax flights at BRU

Post by Ricard »

Did anyone already think about the consequences these triangular flights for example to Egypt will have on the current cla's for pilots and cabin crew ? Until now, these kind of duties are not performed on the MH-sector.

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Conti764
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Re: SN to take over TNT pax flights at BRU

Post by Conti764 »

MR_Boeing wrote: So now the question is, on wich destinations will SN sell it's own tickets and wich destinations will be charter only. As stated in the article, Egypt routes will be charters, but what about routes like Marrakech, Antalya, Agadir...?
In the margin: maybe it is a good idea to keep a few B737's around anyway? They can be deployed to the 'charter only' locations on behalf of Club Med. If their clients are used to the TNT equipment, the SN equipment is actually an improvement, no matter what plane, age of the equipment or history (VEX or SN)...

acba
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Re: SN to take over Club Med pax from TNT at BRU

Post by acba »

Naast het lijndienstprogramma voert Brussels Airlines vanuit België, Zwitserland, Frankrijk en Denemarken komende zomer ook chartervluchten uit naar onder meer Tunesië, Turkije, Egypte, Marrokko, Corsica, Italië en Spanje. Deze chartervluchten worden uitgevoerd in opdracht van nationale en internationale touroperators, waaronder Club Med en Thomas Cook.
Apparently, Club Med has also attracted holiday charter contracts in Switzerland, France and Denmark for Club Med and Thomas Cook. Somebody has an overview of these flights?

Source: luchtvaartnieuws.nl

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sn26567
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Re: SN to take over Club Med pax from TNT at BRU

Post by sn26567 »

acba wrote:Source: luchtvaartnieuws.nl
Copy and paste from the SN press release
André
ex Sabena #26567

Shanti
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Re: SN to take over Club Med pax from TNT at BRU

Post by Shanti »

What about the TNT cabin crew? Do they work now for SN or do they have to look for another job?

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