A G/A spotter's holiday to Czechia
-
jan_olieslagers
- Posts: 3082
- Joined: 24 Jun 2006, 08:34
- Location: Vl.Brabant
- Contact:
A G/A spotter's holiday to Czechia
Not quite sure if this is the right place for this kind of report, I'll post it anyway. Admins, tell me if it's ok?
I spent just less than a week touring Czechia, to visit museums and fairs. The weather was greyish and drizzly, so there was less flying to be seen than I had hoped for. Still, the musea were good, one even great.
1) The museum in Schleissheim: I got curious about this place when, browsing the internet, I accidentally learned that the aerodrome traffic pattern must be flown in a potato-shape. (1) Quite an interesting pilot's challenge! It turned out to be an absolutely magnificent museum, well worth the 6€ entrance fee. I spent three hours there, and had a fine and cheap lunch - for Germany - at the nearby "Phönix" pizzeria. Highlights of the museum are a Do-24 flying boat and a He-111 bomber, besides many engines, several half-open for better insight.(2)
Partners with less aviation interest can probably be diverted to the old summer residence of Bavarian Royalty, within easy walking distance.
That same evening I continued towards Czechia, visited the border train station of Bayrisch Eisenstein and tried to imagine the iron curtain that must have run right across. Czech border control was stricter than expected ("Where are you going? What are you going to do there?" &C) but after a quick glance inside my famous blue van they must have been sure I was just an innocent fool. I made no effort to make them any wiser. Only a few km into Czechia the blue van gave up, it has always been delicate on the engine electronics and they decided once more to step out. That cost a good deal of time, by noon next day finally another van came from Klatovy and towed us to a workshop there. The guys made a quick job of it and the price was incredibly low, just 1830 CZK, more or less 73€, including more than 20 kms towing. While in Klatovy I visited the aerodrome but it was very quiet, only as I rode off did I see a nice antique biplane on final. Near miss!
2) Aero Expo Europe in Pribram: this was the main reason for the trip, or at least for its date. It was organised by an English company, which made for some funny language misunderstandings. All in all a nice organisation, with some interesting stands. I paid a cockpit visit to a Pilatus Porter and was charmed by the horizontal panel before the dashboard - the salesman commented that, with a fuel capacity for 8 hours of flight, it was nice for the crew to have a place for their packed lunch... I wondered at the lack of corresponding sanitary facilities but, shy as always, I kept my mouth.
On Saturday afternoon there were some flight demo's, opened by a couple of Czech Saab combat planes. Apparently these are on lease from the factory, I heard some shrewd comments about how the deal was negotiated that made me sigh about the world being round. No further comments on my behalf, of course. The demo was quite nice, lots of afterburner screaming and all that. Among the other demo's were a Focke-Wulf Stieglitz, two English single-seaters with BELGIAN-made engines, a German-registered SF260 in Belgian military markings with a VERY self-aware pilot, and, most impressive to this beginner pilot, 3 gliders of varying ages, performing breath-taking aerobatics. The oldest reminded me of my grandfather's greenhouse, timbers and cloth and the pilot sitting in open air across a beam, yet it performed loopings and whipstalls and what not. Great!
Very impressive too were the guys working the radio, speaking Czech to the locals and English to the rest, keeping calm even when the military pilots were obviously confused having to synchronise with civilians, quietly mocking the SF260 pilot by calling him "MISTER Marchetti" every time, and not giving in to some quite rude visitors ("Delta what-what-what-ever, please state intentions?" "My intentions are to take off and fly home to Germany!" which is really rude if one realises there's Germany all to the North, West and South of that place)
3) Sunday morning at Medlanky aerodrome which was even harder to find than most recreational airfields - in incredibly hilly country, at the end of a "cul-de-sac" and not a single signpost - a glider made a few brave efforts from the winch but the weather was really too poor. So I continued directly to my second main destination: Kunovice and its open-air museum. This I visited on Monday morning, still under a drizzle of rain, it was rather sad. They certainly have some interesting planes there, like the L-610 prototype and a beautiful Aero-45, but they are just sitting there, lost and forlorn, rusting away in a grass field. The nice thing was some of the planes could be visited, I have some snaps from inside an Il-14. When I asked for a cockpit visit to the Aero-45, the only response was a polite smile.
4) The original idea had been to remain in Czechia until the next weekend, for the celebrations at Pardubice air base. But I was short on money and had my doubts about the van engine's reliability, so I only paid a brief visit of courtesy to Pardubice well before the event. Again, this was a dreary place, some little part at the North-East corner is being rented out as a kind of business park, I'd never want to do business from such a place even if it is close to an aerodrome.
I rode to Velim for the evening, there is a famous test circuit there for high speed trains but this too was disappointingly inactive. Attempts at photography were soon stopped by security guards.
5) Just in Prague's Eastern suburbs, the small aerodrome at Letnany was, again, rather inactive due to poor weather, but just across the road is Kbely air base with its famous museum. This in itself would have made the whole trip worth its time and money: the collection is extensive, with some rare highlights, and some unexpected Belgian links. Part of the exhibits are theme-bound, each in their proper hangar, like WW1 and WW2. Some are in open air, and the most interesting are in one big building, stacked very close, too close indeed for decent photography. Across the barriers, in the "no photography" area, were some active planes, among which the Czech state Airbus (an A-318?) and several big helicopters, besides not-used museum planes including a Li-2. Surprisingly, entrance to the museum was free! This must be on behalf of its military backgrounds. Still, the guides were obviously civilian volunteers, most looking like being retired, all very kind and polite, some even speaking some halting words of German, or English.
Conclusions:
-) Czechia is a great country for aviation lovers, the two museums I visited are most interesting and there's plenty of nice and sympathetic recreational aerodromes (I didn't mention all those I visited, must have been 10 or 15).
-) Czechia was surprisingly cheap, I had expected cost of life to be comparable to ours (in Belgium, that is) but that was only true of car and aircraft fuel. A meal in a restaurant would generally cost 100-150 crowns: 20-25 for half a litre of excellent beer (mostly Gambrinus or sometimes the famous Pilsner Urquell, and that IS good stuff!), 60-80 crowns for a solid main dish, 20-25 crowns for good coffee. Exchange rate must be about 25 crowns to the Euro, I haven't checked the Visa transactions yet. One striking remark I heard: "this country will be cheap as long it does NOT introduce the Euro". Makes one think twice, doesn't it?
-) Surprisingly few people speak any language except local. It was all I could do to explain to the villagers that I needed a truck to tow my van to a garage. Yet when once they understood they were helpful enough, first calling in a local mechanic who in turn called the guys from Klatovy on his mobile. At the small aerodromes, too, all R/T was in local language. Someone told me that, at Letnany near Praha, an English-speaking tower controller must be requested 24 hrs in advance.
-) There are some nice aviation museums around that make surprisingly little publicity, a little research can reveal much.
-) Yes, I'll go back willingly as soon as time and budget permit - but this time flying, if that can be managed.
(1) http://www.ednx.de/baseops/fsev-baseops.html
(2) http://www.deutsches-museum.de and continue to "Flugwerft Schleissheim"
Will try to upload some photographs separately, later on.
I spent just less than a week touring Czechia, to visit museums and fairs. The weather was greyish and drizzly, so there was less flying to be seen than I had hoped for. Still, the musea were good, one even great.
1) The museum in Schleissheim: I got curious about this place when, browsing the internet, I accidentally learned that the aerodrome traffic pattern must be flown in a potato-shape. (1) Quite an interesting pilot's challenge! It turned out to be an absolutely magnificent museum, well worth the 6€ entrance fee. I spent three hours there, and had a fine and cheap lunch - for Germany - at the nearby "Phönix" pizzeria. Highlights of the museum are a Do-24 flying boat and a He-111 bomber, besides many engines, several half-open for better insight.(2)
Partners with less aviation interest can probably be diverted to the old summer residence of Bavarian Royalty, within easy walking distance.
That same evening I continued towards Czechia, visited the border train station of Bayrisch Eisenstein and tried to imagine the iron curtain that must have run right across. Czech border control was stricter than expected ("Where are you going? What are you going to do there?" &C) but after a quick glance inside my famous blue van they must have been sure I was just an innocent fool. I made no effort to make them any wiser. Only a few km into Czechia the blue van gave up, it has always been delicate on the engine electronics and they decided once more to step out. That cost a good deal of time, by noon next day finally another van came from Klatovy and towed us to a workshop there. The guys made a quick job of it and the price was incredibly low, just 1830 CZK, more or less 73€, including more than 20 kms towing. While in Klatovy I visited the aerodrome but it was very quiet, only as I rode off did I see a nice antique biplane on final. Near miss!
2) Aero Expo Europe in Pribram: this was the main reason for the trip, or at least for its date. It was organised by an English company, which made for some funny language misunderstandings. All in all a nice organisation, with some interesting stands. I paid a cockpit visit to a Pilatus Porter and was charmed by the horizontal panel before the dashboard - the salesman commented that, with a fuel capacity for 8 hours of flight, it was nice for the crew to have a place for their packed lunch... I wondered at the lack of corresponding sanitary facilities but, shy as always, I kept my mouth.
On Saturday afternoon there were some flight demo's, opened by a couple of Czech Saab combat planes. Apparently these are on lease from the factory, I heard some shrewd comments about how the deal was negotiated that made me sigh about the world being round. No further comments on my behalf, of course. The demo was quite nice, lots of afterburner screaming and all that. Among the other demo's were a Focke-Wulf Stieglitz, two English single-seaters with BELGIAN-made engines, a German-registered SF260 in Belgian military markings with a VERY self-aware pilot, and, most impressive to this beginner pilot, 3 gliders of varying ages, performing breath-taking aerobatics. The oldest reminded me of my grandfather's greenhouse, timbers and cloth and the pilot sitting in open air across a beam, yet it performed loopings and whipstalls and what not. Great!
Very impressive too were the guys working the radio, speaking Czech to the locals and English to the rest, keeping calm even when the military pilots were obviously confused having to synchronise with civilians, quietly mocking the SF260 pilot by calling him "MISTER Marchetti" every time, and not giving in to some quite rude visitors ("Delta what-what-what-ever, please state intentions?" "My intentions are to take off and fly home to Germany!" which is really rude if one realises there's Germany all to the North, West and South of that place)
3) Sunday morning at Medlanky aerodrome which was even harder to find than most recreational airfields - in incredibly hilly country, at the end of a "cul-de-sac" and not a single signpost - a glider made a few brave efforts from the winch but the weather was really too poor. So I continued directly to my second main destination: Kunovice and its open-air museum. This I visited on Monday morning, still under a drizzle of rain, it was rather sad. They certainly have some interesting planes there, like the L-610 prototype and a beautiful Aero-45, but they are just sitting there, lost and forlorn, rusting away in a grass field. The nice thing was some of the planes could be visited, I have some snaps from inside an Il-14. When I asked for a cockpit visit to the Aero-45, the only response was a polite smile.
4) The original idea had been to remain in Czechia until the next weekend, for the celebrations at Pardubice air base. But I was short on money and had my doubts about the van engine's reliability, so I only paid a brief visit of courtesy to Pardubice well before the event. Again, this was a dreary place, some little part at the North-East corner is being rented out as a kind of business park, I'd never want to do business from such a place even if it is close to an aerodrome.
I rode to Velim for the evening, there is a famous test circuit there for high speed trains but this too was disappointingly inactive. Attempts at photography were soon stopped by security guards.
5) Just in Prague's Eastern suburbs, the small aerodrome at Letnany was, again, rather inactive due to poor weather, but just across the road is Kbely air base with its famous museum. This in itself would have made the whole trip worth its time and money: the collection is extensive, with some rare highlights, and some unexpected Belgian links. Part of the exhibits are theme-bound, each in their proper hangar, like WW1 and WW2. Some are in open air, and the most interesting are in one big building, stacked very close, too close indeed for decent photography. Across the barriers, in the "no photography" area, were some active planes, among which the Czech state Airbus (an A-318?) and several big helicopters, besides not-used museum planes including a Li-2. Surprisingly, entrance to the museum was free! This must be on behalf of its military backgrounds. Still, the guides were obviously civilian volunteers, most looking like being retired, all very kind and polite, some even speaking some halting words of German, or English.
Conclusions:
-) Czechia is a great country for aviation lovers, the two museums I visited are most interesting and there's plenty of nice and sympathetic recreational aerodromes (I didn't mention all those I visited, must have been 10 or 15).
-) Czechia was surprisingly cheap, I had expected cost of life to be comparable to ours (in Belgium, that is) but that was only true of car and aircraft fuel. A meal in a restaurant would generally cost 100-150 crowns: 20-25 for half a litre of excellent beer (mostly Gambrinus or sometimes the famous Pilsner Urquell, and that IS good stuff!), 60-80 crowns for a solid main dish, 20-25 crowns for good coffee. Exchange rate must be about 25 crowns to the Euro, I haven't checked the Visa transactions yet. One striking remark I heard: "this country will be cheap as long it does NOT introduce the Euro". Makes one think twice, doesn't it?
-) Surprisingly few people speak any language except local. It was all I could do to explain to the villagers that I needed a truck to tow my van to a garage. Yet when once they understood they were helpful enough, first calling in a local mechanic who in turn called the guys from Klatovy on his mobile. At the small aerodromes, too, all R/T was in local language. Someone told me that, at Letnany near Praha, an English-speaking tower controller must be requested 24 hrs in advance.
-) There are some nice aviation museums around that make surprisingly little publicity, a little research can reveal much.
-) Yes, I'll go back willingly as soon as time and budget permit - but this time flying, if that can be managed.
(1) http://www.ednx.de/baseops/fsev-baseops.html
(2) http://www.deutsches-museum.de and continue to "Flugwerft Schleissheim"
Will try to upload some photographs separately, later on.
Last edited by jan_olieslagers on 12 Jun 2010, 00:24, edited 2 times in total.
-
jan_olieslagers
- Posts: 3082
- Joined: 24 Jun 2006, 08:34
- Location: Vl.Brabant
- Contact:
Re: A G/A spotter's holiday to Czechia
At the Flugwerft Schleissheim:
The Do-24 A Fairchild (Argus?) partially opened up. Observe the starboard cabin door standing open. Below is a PZL Mielec.
The Do-24 A Fairchild (Argus?) partially opened up. Observe the starboard cabin door standing open. Below is a PZL Mielec.
Last edited by jan_olieslagers on 12 Jun 2010, 10:09, edited 1 time in total.
-
jan_olieslagers
- Posts: 3082
- Joined: 24 Jun 2006, 08:34
- Location: Vl.Brabant
- Contact:
Re: A G/A spotter's holiday to Czechia
Some snaps form the Pribram fair:
This Marchetti almost made me whistle the Brabançonne! But this old bird's acro demo was to make a deeper impression. Copilot's seat in the Turbo Porter. That cockpit is a ballroom to an ultralight pilot's eyes! Czech ultralight makers seem to enjoy spreading confusion. Perhaps to show off their skills in engineering and body-building? Already there was a C172 look-alike, and now look at this... This neat acro single-seater proudly sports a Belgian engine, check the sticker on the cowl.
This Marchetti almost made me whistle the Brabançonne! But this old bird's acro demo was to make a deeper impression. Copilot's seat in the Turbo Porter. That cockpit is a ballroom to an ultralight pilot's eyes! Czech ultralight makers seem to enjoy spreading confusion. Perhaps to show off their skills in engineering and body-building? Already there was a C172 look-alike, and now look at this... This neat acro single-seater proudly sports a Belgian engine, check the sticker on the cowl.
Last edited by jan_olieslagers on 12 Jun 2010, 00:26, edited 1 time in total.
-
jan_olieslagers
- Posts: 3082
- Joined: 24 Jun 2006, 08:34
- Location: Vl.Brabant
- Contact:
Re: A G/A spotter's holiday to Czechia
From the museum in Kunovice:
All sadly rusting away in the lush grass I always liked the Aero 45, don't ask me why. Too bad I wasn't allowed inside. Galley equipment in the Il-14
All sadly rusting away in the lush grass I always liked the Aero 45, don't ask me why. Too bad I wasn't allowed inside. Galley equipment in the Il-14
-
jan_olieslagers
- Posts: 3082
- Joined: 24 Jun 2006, 08:34
- Location: Vl.Brabant
- Contact:
Re: A G/A spotter's holiday to Czechia
And finally, some views from the Kbely museum, where everybody kindly insisted that photography WAS allowed!
A line-up of old combat planes And here's the transports ("Doprava", not to be confused with "Oprava" which means 'workshop' as I learned) An Me-262 in the WW2 hangar. Did you know post-war Czechia went on producing them? Line-up of Walter radial engines
A line-up of old combat planes And here's the transports ("Doprava", not to be confused with "Oprava" which means 'workshop' as I learned) An Me-262 in the WW2 hangar. Did you know post-war Czechia went on producing them? Line-up of Walter radial engines
-
jan_olieslagers
- Posts: 3082
- Joined: 24 Jun 2006, 08:34
- Location: Vl.Brabant
- Contact:
Re: A G/A spotter's holiday to Czechia
Almost forgotten: industrial estate at an abandoned corner of Pardubice Air Base.
Last edited by jan_olieslagers on 12 Jun 2010, 11:35, edited 1 time in total.
Re: A G/A spotter's holiday to Czechia
Nice report ! :thumbup:
Re: A G/A spotter's holiday to Czechia
Dear Jan,
don't play the humble type, asking if this report is OK . Of course it is. It makes us dribble of jealousy.
Wonder what the soil pollution is. I heard in East-Germany near Grossenhain that the Russians left behind enormous polution problems.
With the Czech Repblic also in the EU, they have to comply to EU regulations , for example to turn a former airforce base into a industrial area, the soil needs to be cleaned up first.
Czech people are proud people. I was not surprised to see that Walter engine line up. In a car museum they would do the same with Tatra's.
don't play the humble type, asking if this report is OK . Of course it is. It makes us dribble of jealousy.
Wonder what the soil pollution is. I heard in East-Germany near Grossenhain that the Russians left behind enormous polution problems.
With the Czech Repblic also in the EU, they have to comply to EU regulations , for example to turn a former airforce base into a industrial area, the soil needs to be cleaned up first.
Czech people are proud people. I was not surprised to see that Walter engine line up. In a car museum they would do the same with Tatra's.
Re: A G/A spotter's holiday to Czechia
During my years at the UN I had to deal with that pollution coming mainly from the Czechoslovakian chemical industry. The Russians had nothing to do with it. It was mainly due to chlorinated organics and sulphur derivatives, as well as residues from the distillation of coal. But this leads us far away from aviation.regi wrote:Wonder what the soil pollution is.
To jan_olieslagers, congratulations for your fine report and your well organised programme of visits.
André
ex Sabena #26567
ex Sabena #26567
Re: A G/A spotter's holiday to Czechia
OK, but there is a massive problem with trichloroethylene and even more with tetrachloroethylene. They were used extensively in the maintenance of mechanical devises - read engines and transmissions. Almost every mechanical workshop around the world has this soil contamination. The problem is that it is heavier than water and doesn't evaporate but contaminates the drinking water.sn26567 wrote:During my years at the UN I had to deal with that pollution coming mainly from the Czechoslovakian chemical industry. The Russians had nothing to do with it. It was mainly due to chlorinated organics and sulphur derivatives, as well as residues from the distillation of coal. But this leads us far away from aviation.regi wrote:Wonder what the soil pollution is.
To jan_olieslagers, congratulations for your fine report and your well organised programme of visits.
A second problem with old military airbases is the leaking fuel - from the fuel storage but also from the constantly leaking airplanes, year in, year out. Together with hydraulic fluid etcetera.
Nearby Bruges, this lead to a huge problem when the former military baracks of Sijsele had to be converted into small business units. Some of the buildings were so heavely contaminated ( with diesel) that it stalled the commercial use of the buildings. I have been in the buildings. One of them still smells terrible of diesel, even after the clean up.
But as you said, it brings us too far away.
Maybe it is a good opportunity to launch a new subject about environmental issues in aviation. ?
-
jan_olieslagers
- Posts: 3082
- Joined: 24 Jun 2006, 08:34
- Location: Vl.Brabant
- Contact:
Re: A G/A spotter's holiday to Czechia
I was aware of the communist's disregard to environmental issues, and looked around here and there. Indeed I had been shocked at the environmental brutality I found around the old ferryboat terminal at Mukran/Sässnitz, but saw nothing comparable in Czechia. Either they were more conscient OR it has been cleaned up since OR they were clever at covering up.
On the other hand, piles of refuse were everywhere, particularly at Kunovice aerodrome. But one can see those around the North side of Zaventem/Melsbroek, too, not to mention Gosselies. An old industrial site is an old industrial site remains an old industrial site, wherever.
On the other hand, piles of refuse were everywhere, particularly at Kunovice aerodrome. But one can see those around the North side of Zaventem/Melsbroek, too, not to mention Gosselies. An old industrial site is an old industrial site remains an old industrial site, wherever.
Re: A G/A spotter's holiday to Czechia
That is right.jan_olieslagers wrote:I was aware of the communist's disregard to environmental issues, and looked around here and there. Indeed I had been shocked at the environmental brutality I found around the old ferryboat terminal at Mukran/Sässnitz, but saw nothing comparable in Czechia. Either they were more conscient OR it has been cleaned up since OR they were clever at covering up.
On the other hand, piles of refuse were everywhere, particularly at Kunovice aerodrome. But one can see those around the North side of Zaventem/Melsbroek, too, not to mention Gosselies. An old industrial site is an old industrial site remains an old industrial site, wherever.
Maybe my response was too one sided against former communist countries.
But there is a difference in polution between civilian industry and military bases.
On the other hand, if we see now how the BP disaster is unfolding ...
-
brownlitlle
- Posts: 2
- Joined: 22 Jul 2010, 06:26
Re: A G/A spotter's holiday to Czechia
The weather was greyish and drizzly, so there was less flying to be seen than I had hoped for.
Last edited by sn26567 on 23 Jul 2010, 10:18, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Removed commercial links
Reason: Removed commercial links