"Disaster in the Air" - Fascinating TV Programme

Comet · Post by **Comet** » 14 Jan 2004, 10:11

There was a fascinating programme on Channel 5 in the UK last night - "Disaster in the Air".

It was a compelling resconstruction of the Swissair flight 111, operated by MD-11 HB-IWF between New York and Geneva. The aircraft suffered a fire on the flightdeck and crashed into the sea six minutes after making its last transmission to Monkton ATC. The fire was so intense that it melted the systems of the flight recorders and the last six minutes of data was missing. The blame for this was laid at the door of the inflight entertainment system, which was believed to have overheated and continued to operate after the other cabin systems had been shut down.

The tragic fact was that the aircraft was only a few minutes from being able to land at Halifax in Nova Scotia. If it had have landed, 215 passengers and 14 crew would not have died.

A very compelling, watchable but ultimately tragic programme.

Comet · Post by **Comet** » 14 Jan 2004, 10:36

Here is a photo of the MD-11 involved - HB-IWF named "Vaud".

http://www.luftfahrt.net/galerie/new/bi ... alifax.jpg

Note of admin: image changed to link. Forum rule 9

Comet · Post by **Comet** » 14 Jan 2004, 11:30

Sorry about the photo!!!!!!!!!

I could do nothing to shrink the size of it as it is on another site and not my own!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Comet · Post by **Comet** » 14 Jan 2004, 11:47

"Disaster in the Air" is a series. Last week it was about how the loss of a cargo door caused the crash of a 747, but next week it won't be on.

If it is ever shown on cable/satellite, watch it if you get chance.

Comet · Post by **Comet** » 14 Jan 2004, 12:22

Here is a regular-sized photo of the aircraft HB-IWF (I really did not know that the other one had been so big on here!!)

vflies · Post by **vflies** » 14 Jan 2004, 13:23

Yes, very interesting indeed, Comet.

I found last week's episode more interesting. As you said, it was about that United 747 that suffered its main cargo door to open during a Honolulu-Aukland flight, ripping off part of the fuselage and sucking 11 passengers out.
But as the plane didn't crash and the pilots managed to return to HNL, the show had some very interesting reports from witnesses including the captain, two flight attnds and a few passengers who survived.
It also focused on the parents of a young NZ victim who fought against UA, Boeing, the NTSB and the FAA for 10 years before being heard and having the cargo door closing system fixed on all B747...
Fascinating!

Yesterday, BBC2 also had a very good documentary about PanAm 103 explosion above Lockerbie, Scotland. Very good dramatization mixed with news footage from 15 years ago already (Dec 21, 1988).
In the same daily series ("Days that changed the world") look out for a 9/11 documentary very soon!

VFlies

Avro · Post by **Avro** » 14 Jan 2004, 13:24

I once read the text from the cockpit voice rcorder. It was a terrible crash.

When I'll be home I can post the texts from the cokpit voice recorder if you want.

Regards
Chris

Comet · Post by **Comet** » 14 Jan 2004, 14:19

Vance - oh dear I missed the PA103 programme! I had known it was going to be on, but not when. I had intended watching it, or setting the video as well. I must keep an eye open for the 9/11 episode.

The UA passengers who survived that incident with the cargo door were very lucky. I have seen other programmes about that incident, which offered some very interesting angles on it! The pilots showed great skill in getting the aircraft to an airport and landing without further catastrophe.

Chris - I would be very interested to see the transcripts from the cockpit voice recorder of SR111.

Captain · Post by **Captain** » 14 Jan 2004, 16:50

vflies wrote:I found last week's episode more interesting. As you said, it was about that United 747 that suffered its main cargo door to open during a Honolulu-Aukland flight, ripping off part of the fuselage and sucking 11 passengers out.

I also saw that same programme. Amazing job from the pilots and the fact that the plane could continue flying and be landed 'safely' whilst having a hug hole on the side of the fuselage defies all aspects of aeronautics!

Go to the following link for a picture: http://www.warman.demon.co.uk/anna/united.jpg

Captain.

Comet · Post by **Comet** » 14 Jan 2004, 18:06

That is some hole! Those passengers and crew were very lucky to have survived that one. The pilot should have been given an award of some kind for safely landing the aircraft in such extreme circumstances without further loss of life.

Avro · Post by **Avro** » 14 Jan 2004, 18:23

Here is the Transcript of Swissair 111:

The transcript of final moments of Swissair Flight 111 were released on September 8, 1998. It details the final conversations on September 3 involving the crew of ill-fated Swissair Flight 111, air traffic control centres in Moncton, N.B., and Halifax, as well as the crews of two British Airways Speedbird flights and a Virgin Airlines plane in the area at the time of the emergency situation (times in parentheses are p.m. ADT):

Swissair 111 (9:58:15.8 ): Moncton Centre, Swissair one-eleven heavy good, uh, evening level three-three-zero.

Moncton controller (9:58:20.4): Swissair one-eleven heavy, Moncton Centre, good evening. Reports of occasional light turbulence at all levels.

Swissair 111 (9:58:26.1): Moncton, Swissair. (Extensive communications between Moncton Centre and other aircraft. Unintelligible squelch covered by United Flight 920.)

Moncton controller (10:14:12.0): United nine-two-zero heavy, Moncton Centre. Good evening, occasional light turbulence reported at all levels. Other aircraft calling, say again.

Swissair 111 (10:14:18.0): Swissair one-eleven heavy is declaring Pan Pan Pan. We have, uh, smoke in the cockpit. Uh, request immediate return, uh, to a convenient place, I guess, uh, Boston.

Moncton controller (10:14:33.2): Swissair one-eleven, roger . . . turn right proceed . . . uh . . .you say to Boston you want to go.

Swissair 111 (10:14:33.2): I guess Boston . . . we need first the weather so, uh, we start a right turn here. Swissair one-one-one heavy.

Moncton controller (10:14:45.2): Swissair one-eleven, roger, and a descent to flight level three-one-zero. Is that OK?

Swissair 111 (10:14:50.3): Three-one-zero. (Unintelligible words obscured by a noice. Possibly the noise associated with donning oxygen masks.) Three-one-zero . . . one-one heavy.

Moncton controller (10:15:03.1): Swissair one-eleven, Centre. Swissair 111 (10:15:06.6): Swissair one-eleven heavy, go ahead.

Moncton controller (10:15:08.6): Uh, would you prefer to go into Halifax? Swissair 111 (10:15:11.6): Uh, standby. Virgin 12 (10:15:15.9): Moncton, Virgin twelve will be standing by.

Moncton controller (10:15:17.3): Virgin twelve, roger, standby.

Swissair 111 (10:15:38.4): Affirmative for Swissair one-eleven heavy. We prefer Halifax from our position.

Moncton controller (10:15:43.8 ): Swissair one-eleven, roger. Proceed direct to Halifax. Descend now to flight level two-niner-zero.

Swissair 111 (10:15:48.7): Level two-niner-zero to Halifax, Swissair one-eleven heavy.

BAW Speedbird 214 (10:15:58.3): And, uh, Swissair one-eleven heavy, from Speedbird two-one-four, I can give you the Halifax weather if you like.

Swissair 111 (10:16:04.1): Swissair one-eleven heavy, we have the, uh, the oxygen mask on. Go ahead with the weather.

BAW Speedbird 214 (10:16:10.4): OK, it's the three hundred zulu weather was one-zero-zero at niner knots, one-five miles, scattered at one-two-zero, broken at two-five-zero, plus seventeen, plus twelve, two-niner-eight-zero, over.

Swissair 111 (10:16:29.8 ): Roger, Swissair one-eleven heavy. We copy the, ah, altimeter is two-niner-eight-zero.

Moncton controller (10:16:38.6): Swissair one-eleven, you're cleared to ten thousand feet and the Hal . . . altimeter is two-nine-eight-zero.

Swissair 111 (10:16:41.7): Two-niner-eight zero, ten thousand feet, Swissair one-eleven heavy. Moncton controller (10:16:52.5): And Swissair one-eleven, uh, can you tell me what your fuel on board is and the number of passengers?

Swissair 111 (10:16:58.3): Uh, roger, standby for this.

BAW Speedbird 1506 (10:17:15.5): Speedbird one-five-zero six is at Tusky listening out.

Moncton controller (10:17:19.3): Speedbird one-five-zero-six, roger.

Moncton controller (10:18:19.3): Swissair one-eleven, you can contact Moncton Centre now one-one-niner-point-two.

Swissair 111 (10:18:24.4): One-one-niner-point-two for the Swissair one-one-one heavy.

Moncton controller (10:18:31.0): Roger.

Swissair 111 (10:18:34.3): Moncton Centre, good evening. Swissair one-eleven heavy, flight level two-five-four descending flight level two-five-zero on course Halifax. We are flying at the time on track zero-five-zero.

Halifax controller (10:18:46.8 ): Swissair one-eleven, good evening. Descend to three thousand the altimeter is two-nine-seven-nine.

Swissair 111 (10:18:51.8 ): Ah, we would prefer at the time around, uh, eight thousand feet, two-nine-eight-zero, until the cabin is ready for the landing.

Halifax controller (10:19:00:9): Swissair one-eleven, uh, you can descend to three, level off at an intermediate altitude if you wish. Just advise.

Swissair 111 (10:19:07.2): Roger. At the time we descend to eight thousand feet. We are anytime clear to three thousand. I keep you advised.

Halifax controller (10:19:14.5): OK, can I vector you, uh, to set up for runway zero-six at Halifax?

Swissair 111 (10:19:19.4): Ah, say again latest wind, please.

Halifax controller (10:19:22.1): OK, active runway Halifax zero-six. Should I start you on a vector for six?

Swissair 111 (10:19:26.3): Yes, uh, vector for six will be fine. Swissair one-eleven heavy.

Halifax controller (10:19:31.0): Swissair one-eleven, roger. Turn left heading of, ah, zero-three-zero.

Swissair 111 (10:19:35.1): Left, ah, heading zero-three-zero for the Swissair one-eleven.

Halifax controller (10:19:39.5): OK, it's a back course approach for runway zero-six. The localizer frequency one-zero-niner-decimal-niner. You've got thirty miles to fly to the threshold.

Swissair 111 (10:19:53.3): Uh, we need more than thirty miles. Please, ah, say me again the frequency of the back beam.

Halifax controller (10:19:59.5): Swissair one-eleven, roger. You can turn left heading three-six-zero to lose some altitude, the frequency is one-zero-niner-decimal-niner for the localizer. It's a back course approach.

Swissair 111 (10:20:09.5): One-zero-niner-point-niner, roger. And we are turning left to heading, ah, north. Swissair one-eleven heavy.

Halifax controller (10:21:23.1): Swissair one-eleven, when you have time could I have the number of souls on board and your fuel onboard please for emergency services.

Swissair 111 (10:21:30.1): Roger. At the time, uh, fuel on board is, uh, two-three-zero tonnes. We must, uh, dump some fuel. May we do that in this area during descent? (Note: Two three zero tonnes represents the current gross weight of the aircraft, not the amount of fuel on board.)

Halifax controller (10:21:40.9): Uh, OK, I am going to take you . . . Are you able to take a turn back to the south or do you want to stay closer to the airport?

Swissair 111 (10:21:47.0): Uh, standby short, standby short.

Swissair 111 (10:21:59.1): OK, we are able for a left or right turn towards the south to dump.

Halifax controller (10:22:04.2): Swissair one-eleven, uh roger, uh turn to the ah, left, heading of, ah, two-zero-zero degrees and advise time when you are ready to dump. It will be about ten miles before you are off the coast. You are still within about twenty-five miles of the airport.

Swissair 111 (10:22:20.3): Roger, we are turning left and, ah, in that case we're descending at the time only to ten thousand feet to dump the fuel.

Halifax controller (10:22:29.6): OK, maintain one-zero-thousand. I'll advise you when you are over the water and it will be very shortly.

Swissair 111 (10:22:34.4): Roger.

Swissair 111 (10:22:36.2): (Du bisch i dr) emergency checklist (fur) air conditioning smoke? [in German](Translation: You are in the emergency checklist for air conditioning smoke?)

Halifax controller (10:22:42.9): Uh, Swissair one-eleven, say again please.

Swissair 111 (10:22:45.3): Ah, sorry, it was not for you. Swissair one-eleven was asking internally. It was my fault, sorry about.

Halifax controller (10:22:50.8 ): OK.

Halifax controller (10:23:33.1): Swissair one-eleven continue left heading one-eight-zero. You'll be off the coast in about, ah, fifteen miles.

Swissair 111 (10:23:39.2): Roger, heading left one-eight-zero. Swissair one-eleven and maintaining at ten thousand feet.

Halifax controller (10:23:46.3): Roger.

Halifax controller (10:23:55.7): You will, ah, be staying within about, ah, thirty-five, forty miles of the airport if you have to get to the airport in a hurry.

Swissair 111 (10:24.03.9): OK, that's fine for us. Please tell me when we can start, ah, to dump the fuel.

Halifax controller (10:24:08.8 ): OK.

Swissair 111 (10:24:28.1): (Background phone). Ah, Swissair one-eleven. At the time we must fly, ah, manually. Are we cleared to fly between, ah, ten thou . . . eleven thousand and niner thousand feet? (Sound of autopilot disconnect warbler).

Halifax controller (10:24:28.1): Swissair one-eleven, you can block between, ah, five thousand and twelve thousand if you wish.

Swissair 111 (10:24:45.1): Swissair one-eleven heavy is declaring emergency; (10:24:46.4 second voice overlap) Roger, we are between, uh, twelve and five thousand feet. We are declaring emergency now at, ah time, ah, zero-one-two-four. (Possible intercom sound toward end of transmission).

Halifax controller (10:24:56.0): Roger.

Swissair 111 (10:24:56.5): Eleven heavy, we starting dump now, we have to land immediate.

Halifax controller (10:25:00.7): Swissair one-eleven, just a couple of miles, I'll be right with you.

Swissair 111 (10:25:04.1): Roger. (Sound-probable autopilot disconnect warbler).

Swissair 111 (10:25:05.4): And we are declaring emergency now, Swissair one-eleven.

Halifax controller (10:25:08.6): Copy that.

Halifax controller (10:25:19.2): Swissair one-eleven, you are cleared to, ah, commence your fuel dump on that track and advise me, ah, when the dump is complete.

Halifax controller (10:25:43.0): Swissair one-eleven, check you're cleared to start the fuel dump.

Swissair 111 (10:25:49.3): ------------.

(There were no further communications from the Swissair Flight 111, the CTSB says. About six minutes later, the aircraft struck the water.)

Chris

Comet · Post by **Comet** » 14 Jan 2004, 19:52

Thanks for that Chris - it makes for sad reading. It must have been awful for the controller, and the pilots of the other aircraft (which were never mentioned on the programme last night) to be listening in on, and witnessing, such an event.

Post by **sn26567** » 15 Jan 2004, 09:25

Chris, thanks for transcript.

One question: what does "heavy" mean after "Swissair one-eleven"?

Comet · Post by **Comet** » 15 Jan 2004, 10:47

sn26567 wrote:Chris, thanks for transcript.

One question: what does "heavy" mean after "Swissair one-eleven"?

Don't they say that to indicate a certain aircraft type above a certain size or weight or something? I know when I saw a programme about the American Airbus which crashed after take off from New York, the ATC recordings from that aircraft featured the word "heavy" after the flight number. That aircraft was an A300.

Avro · Post by **Avro** » 15 Jan 2004, 15:27

Correct Louise

When an airplane has a callsign ending with heavy it means it has a certain weight. Unfortunately I don't know the exact limit anymore, but I'll check it.

As far as I know this is done so that pilots in other planes know which planes around them are big ones and which are not (I think

)

I hope this helps you André

Ciao
Chris
8)

Comet · Post by **Comet** » 15 Jan 2004, 15:38

Thanks for confirming that Chris. I thought that must be the reason, but I wasn't 100% sure. Is it something which is used for aircraft classed as "wide body"? As I said, I've only heard of it with the SR MD-11 and the AA A300.

Avro · Post by **Avro** » 15 Jan 2004, 15:39

Allright I found it (quicker than I thought

).

Airplanes that are called "heavy" need to have 300,000 lbs or more as gross weight. A few years ago the limit has changed and is now apparently set to 255,000 lbs gross weight.

One exception though is the B757. It produces a lot of wake turbulence, much more than a B767 in similar configuration. That's why you will often encounter B757's that will be called heavy.

As far as I know this is done so that pilots in other planes know which planes around them are big ones and which are not (I think )

To correct myself, the planes that get the heavy suffix will get a special "heavy" separation, to prevent other planes following the heavy one to fly in the wake turbulence.

When you llok cloesely at the transcript you will probably see that the SR plane is called heavy but not the BA plane. The reason for this is simple. Most of the time you just use the heavy suffix when you are descending or climbing and in contact with the tower or approach frequencies. During cruise you often don't have to say it, but some pilots still say it as a habbit

Ciao
Chris
8)

Post by **sn26567** » 15 Jan 2004, 16:35

Thanks for detailed explanation, Chris!

Avro · Post by **Avro** » 15 Jan 2004, 16:58

sn26567 wrote:Thanks for detailed explanation, Chris!

Your welcome

But be aware, I'm not totally sure about the weight limitations, it could be that those aren't the right numbers

Ciao
Chris
8)

Snoopy · Post by **Snoopy** » 15 Jan 2004, 17:12

Aircraft turbulence categoristaion :

Heavy : Maximum take off mass > 136000 Kg
Medium : 7000<MTOM<136000 Kg
Light : MTOM < 7000 Kg

ICAO document 4444