Afriqiyah Airways Airbus A330 crashes in Tripoli, Libya

[sn26567]

Crash of flight 8U771 in Tripoli - 12/05/2010

An Airbus 330 of the Libyan airline Afriqiyah Airways coming from Johannesburg crashed this morning at 6 am in Tripoli.

Several passengers were booked on a connecting flight to Brussels Airport.

The Passenger Information Centre at Brussels Airport has now been closed.

Friends and relatives who are looking for more information can contact the FPS Foreign Affairs, Foreign Trade and Development Cooperation at phone 02/501 81 11

Dutch residents can contact the crisis centre in the Netherlands on No. +31 703 48 7770.

Brussels Airport news release

[luchtzak]

Afriqiyah Airways press release: viewtopic.php?f=31&t=42089

[regi]

Again there was the immediate reaction that it was not a terrorist attack. Despite the investigation still had to be started.
Now we read the first reports about:
a fire shortly before landing
and...
an eye witness who saw an explosion.

No, this is not making assumptions before the official release blablabla.

But I am fed up with state officials who launch the impossibility of a terrorist attack, before any other report comes in.

[TCAS_climb]

Eye witnesses (i.e., the human brain in general) are known to be poor sources of reliable information. Once in a while we also have reports of relatives who claim they received an SMS/texto from someone on board just before the crash (saying they're in trouble, etc.), but eventually this turns out to be totally made up.

Can't imagine what the young survivor must go through now and the impact for the rest of his life.

[fcw]

an eye witness who saw an explosion.

An explosion and no fire? Highly unusual!
The fact that there was no fire at all after the crash, makes me curious about the amount, if any, of fuel they had in the tanks.

[RoMax]

The amount of dutch people that died in the crash is rised from 61 to 70.
And a spokesman of forreign affairs in Belgium told that there is also one Belgian victim, a man. Possibly there were even more Belgians onboard they said.

The boy that survived is now together with some familly that arrived today with a special flight out of Rotterdam operated by the Dutch government. There were also a lot of other important people onboard and experts that will follow the investigation.

[Comet]

There were two British people confirmed on the flight, one has been named, one yet to be named.

The media here is saying that the aircraft was one metre from the ground when it exploded (some sources say it broke up and don't mention an explosion). It also says that the visibility was good (at least safe for approach and landing) and that the pilot radioed ATC to say he was having problems before the aircraft made its final approach.

Some are blaming volcanic ash and some sources say that could not be the cause.

If this is not terrorism (and according to sources it is unlikely that it is) then surely it must cast more doubt on the reliability and safety of the A330 after what happened to AF447 last year. The aircraft involved was said to have had a good safety record until this happened.

[RoMax]

There were two British people confirmed on the flight, one has been named, one yet to be named.

The media here is saying that the aircraft was one metre from the ground when it exploded (some sources say it broke up and don't mention an explosion). It also says that the visibility was good (at least safe for approach and landing) and that the pilot radioed ATC to say he was having problems before the aircraft made its final approach.

Some are blaming volcanic ash and some sources say that could not be the cause.

If this is not terrorism (and according to sources it is unlikely that it is) then surely it must cast more doubt on the reliability and safety of the A330 after what happened to AF447 last year. The aircraft involved was said to have had a good safety record until this happened.

The media all over the world is telling completly different storys. Some say that there was good visibility and there are other sources and eye withnesses telling that the visibility was very bad.
Some are telling that the airplane exploded some meters above the ground, others are telling that the aircraft hitted some buildings and trees and than broke in pieces.
Most are telling that vulcanic ash is not the cause of the crash because the concentration of ash above Libya was too low. But still some media is telling that vulcanic ash is probably the cause.

Conclusion, nobody knows what happened and we all have to wait until the investigation delivers some answers.

[TCAS_climb]

Probably worth reading...

Theories about the disaster focused on a possible technical malfunction or pilot error, or both, just before the A330-200 Airbus was due to touch down. The Afriqiyah Airlines aircraft came down short of the Tripoli runway after a dawn approach in visibility of 6km (less than four miles) Mist had been reported.

Pilots who know the Tripoli approach have speculated that the airport's old-fashioned landing aids may have played a role. It lacks an instrument landing system. Crews have to rely on a VOR radio beacon and Tripoli's is subject to false readings, pilots said.
A navigational notice advises caution: the VOR is suffering "interference" from building work at the airport. Pilots make visual checks to ensure that they are lining up correctly. There was speculation that the rising sun would have been directly in the crew's eyes, reducing visibility.

The big Airbus did not touchdown level but appeared to have slammed into the ground and broken up.

It is unusual for final-approach crashes or crash landings to be caused by purely technical failures. More often an element of misjudgment is involved.

[andorra-airport]

I found some interesting news in dutch (nrc.nl) and wanted to translate it into english, but then found out somebody already did on PPRuNe. So here is his copy:

according to Afriqiyah employee who wishes to remain anonymous, Tripoli ATC always lets aircraft land on rwy 09 in the morning even if there is no wind. The reason for this is that aircraft landing on rwy 27 approach from the East, which obliges ATC to look into the sun, which they find unpleasant. [..]

Amongst Afriqiyah staff there has been discontent about this state of affairs for some time already. Not because it's now the pilots having to look into the sun, but since rwy 09 is fitted with the much older NDB (as opposed to ILS-equipped rwy 27). "rwy 09 is terrible, even compared to the rest of Africa", the Afriqiyah employee says.

[..] landing at 09 was made harder by low-hanging clouds. A pilot who landed on the same rwy a few minutes earlier was said to have warned his colleague on the ill-fated plane about this. Allegedly he even recommended him to request rwy 27 instead. The tower then merely answered "stand by". "They always do that. It means that you have to wait an eternity".

A KL pilot then is quoted as saying that he actually considers TIP ATC reliable and never had problems "well you can't fly a precision approach, but that in itself doesn't mean it is unsafe".

[...]

The captain of the plane, Yousif Al Ssady (1953), had an excellent reputation. "Everybody wanted to fly with him", an employee says. He had his training at the British Oxford Aviation Academy, who issued a press release yesterday in which it confirmed to have "a training relationship" with Afriqiyah.

[Propwash]

First class BS journalism and rabble rousing :thumbdown:

Note: same story for a h*rney "if it ain't Dutch, it ain't much" media lawyer, who said "I can't exclude any similarities with the AF 445 accident". BS and rabble rousing article in Dutch HERE (De Telegraaf)

If you prepare yourself and respect the 'higher' minima, there is nothing wrong with a non-precision approach.

Executing a non-precision locator approach, need aviator skills and is much more challenging than a boring 'A/P coupled' ILS...

As with any approach, if it doesn't feel or look good(?) Go Around!

Note: these days, aviators 'learn to' fly by automation and don't have the basic (Stick and Rudder (Aviate), Navigate and Communicate) skills anymore (latest example: TK 1951)!

BTW TIP RWY 09 missed approach point (D locator) is 0.6nm (MDH 358') from the runway.
The debris field (slightly right of the centerline) is at or near the missed approach point (D locator).

My 0,02 dirham.

[GORKI]

well said propwash
recent aircrashes showed us that aircrafts are safer than ever but the pilots that flying it cant event respect
the basics like speed (turkish) or attitude (ethipian)
although non-european carriers are involved,this should be no excuse as they make part of big alliances
One crash for an airline is one too much

[Propwash]

Flying isn't dangerous, crashing is dangerous!

BTW I have more respect for (example) the 'Single Pilot Trislander' operations of Aurigny Air Services etc. than a modern 'Multi Crew' LCD screen viewing Kettle Jockey (KJ).

[Bracebrace]

Note: these days, aviators 'learn to' fly by automation and don't have the basic (Stick and Rudder (Aviate), Navigate and Communicate) skills anymore (latest example: TK 1951)!

You are mixing up two TOTALLY different things.

It's exactly automation, and nothing more than calculating computers, that makes NPA's a lot safer to fly. An NDB is fairly unreliable about anywhere around the planet, you don't need to go to Tripoli for that. But when it's programmed in the computer, the aircraft uses all other resources to fly much more precies to the waypoint. This has nothing to do with stick&rudder work.

The other thing: if you fly an NPA programmed in your computer after a long duty, IMC and upsun in the last portion, pretty much every sound commercial pilot will let the AP fly the approach. When visual with the runway, you can elect to disconnect. It's much more precise and reliable. Monitoring and checking is easier than doing it yourself. The Turkish crash is one where the AP did it's work, the pilots didn't monitor enough.

PS: on Boeing aircraft, NDB tracking is not even an option for the AP. It can only do it when the NDB is programmed as a waypoint and lateral navigation is used. Works like a charm. Even VOR tracking works better when the VOR is programmed as a waypoint. With the VOR tracking function of the AP, it follows the needle and this can create some swinging...

[Zorba]

Every time these things happen, it is sad to see the media giving false information.
On every radio news, the airline changes name (on Terzake even Afriqi Airways), and they keep saying the aircraft's final destination was BRU.

Doesn't anyone check this??

[fcw]

if you fly an NPA programmed in your computer after a long duty, IMC and upsun in the last portion, pretty much every sound commercial pilot will let the AP fly the approach. When visual with the runway, you can elect to disconnect.

Bb,
You have to disconnect and land manually from an NPA. Automatic landing is not available from an NPA.
If you don't the A/P drops out 50ft below the MDA. Maybe that is exactly what happened, automatics to the minimums, no big deal...
"minimus... shit no runway, go around, TOGA, flaps", but in the mean time you are 50ft below the minimums and AP has dropped out, if you fail to realise you have a high energy impact within seconds. Looking at the debris, it looks like a high energy impact!
Any 330 pilot here who can confirm that the A320 OEB about deselecting app before the minimums on an NPA, in order to be able to fly an automatic go around, is also applicable to the A330?

[Depretair]

Hello,

My feelings about this crash are very strange.
When i compare the crash of this plane with the 737 of Turkish, it's also on final approach, but the 737 is "still" in 3 pieces while the airbus is stuck in thousands of pieces.
That"s really strange...

How do you feel about that ?

[tolipanebas]

In the mean time, some pertinent questions are being asked in the popular press, although as so often, in a few weeks, people will just forget about this all when they book their next dream holiday or look for the cheapest possible ticket to VFR in AFI...

http://www.hln.be/hln/nl/942/Economie/a ... s-in.dhtml

[Bracebrace]

...you are 50ft below the minimums and AP has dropped out...

Is that the case on the Airbus?

The wording "elect" was chosen because sometimes I keep in the AP a few seconds and look outside to "get the picture". I need a few seconds for the transition from flying on instruments to flying visually,. Don't like clouds at the minimums (Precision or non-precision, no difference) for that reason.

I was only referring to how you're supposed to fly NPA's. Use of the autopilot to fly the approach itself is the preferred way.

[regi]

and the word is out that it is a pilot's error, probably because he tried too late a restart ( because of bad view ) and tipped his wing .