Flights cancelled due to volcanic ash cloud from Iceland, Eyjafjallajokull

[TUB023]

No Brussels Airlines flights until tuesday 12:00LT !!

this is getting really dramatic now

[LJ]

The Dutch Transport Minister is also complaining about the way the current situation is handled. He proposes to look at where the ashes actually are instead of closing the entire airspace. It seems as if the Dutch government, the Dutch aviation authorities and KLM are on the same line here.

BTW according to the website of the Dutch aviation inspection, the tests KL conducted was in close cooperation with them and Dutch air traffic control. Thus KL didn't act solo on this.

link (in Dutch only)
http://www.ivw.nl/actueel/nieuws/nederl ... 00uur.aspx

[OO-LRM]

Bottom line(for Belgium):NO own decisions how to handle the situation.Always have to look to another party(UK weather,the dutch ,german test flights etc)BUT as our kaloote minister says:I decide when the airspace wil reopen

[Zorba]

Airspace will be closed until 19/04/2010 18:00 UTC.

Empty positioning flights are allowed as from 19/04/2010 06:00 UTC, below FL195 and under VFR.

[Filip146]

No Brussels Airlines flights until tuesday 12:00LT !!

Brussels Airlines does not fly until tuesday.... Seeks aid from the governement.
KLM, AF, LH.... want to fly desperately....
Even the airlines have different approaches to this dramatic situation!

[OO-LRM]

Airspace will be closed until 19/04/2010 18:00 UTC.

Empty positioning flights are allowed as from 19/04/2010 06:00 UTC, below FL195 and under VFR.

Does anybody remember VMC conditions?Under and above FL195.This is of course to simple...

[FLYAIR10]

[Empty positioning

Empty positioning

flights are allowed as from 19/04/2010 06:00 UTC, below FL195 and under VFR.q

Why don't they allow cargo-flights also then??

[galaxy]

These movies try to illustrate the dispersion of mineral dust particles (representing the particle components in the volcanic ash cloud) over Europe at 5 and 10 km height, respectively. The emitted amount is estimated, while assuming a permanent activity since April 14, 05:00 UTC.

Click on picture to watch current animations :
http://www.eurad.uni-koeln.de/index_e.html

[Bralo20]

ALL have done test flights and NONE of them have found anything.

Actually none of them made TESTflights with the exception of the very short and limited range KL flight yesterday... Every other flight was nothing more then a repositioning flight with most of them flight low level altitutes rarely climbing above FL125 to FL200 at most...

Only KL did a genuine testflight with flying through all altitutes from groundlevel up to FL410, but they did this flight only in Amsterdam FIR space so actually it was not more then a big PR stunt.... And yet what can a commercial airliner actually test??? Not a single thing since the commercial airplanes aren't equipped with measuring device for ash, they can only see if there is external damage to the plane (if the particels are big enough they can expect to see some parts that seemed to be sanded), they can check the pitot tubes and they can check the engines and there it all ends... Is it a testflight? No it's not... The flights did only prove that on specific timings and on specific routes and area's it was safe to flight at low altitute and in case of the KL flight they cleared Amsterdam airspace for about one hour, just in a timeframe when the images showed that the cloud was mostly gone.

If the airliners, wetter it's KL, LH, AF, AB, BA, SN, SK, FR or whatever airliner, want to genuily test something they have to send planes up to every altitude for several hours before landing and only then you have a very small prove of something...


I do agree that most of the closure is probably an overreaction, but the measurments are taken in everyones best interest and safety. I don't mind it even though it has affected my travel (I was scheduled on a flight tommorow). I don't like it that the airspace is still closed but I don't like the reactions of the airlines either...

[Filip146]

Airspace will be closed until 19/04/2010 18:00 UTC.

Empty positioning flights are allowed as from 19/04/2010 06:00 UTC, below FL195 and under VFR.

So...it is safe to fly an empty plane....but not a plane carrying pax and cargo.
I.o.w. if (....) something happens, the plane and the poor pilots can be sacrificed?
Hopefully they don't crash into Brussels then!
For me: it is safe or not safe. Safe=normal ops, Not safe=no flying at all.

[Propwash]

I regret reading that some of our smartest members (oa. tolipanebas) prefer to fly with
a small chance/risk without serious scientific info !
A few topics ago these same pilots won't fly with even a small risk ( ref. exit second pilot ).
These risks are close the same by me (very small).
Except in this case they won't fly and now they do.
I very regret these visions, risks are okay if there fine in their opinions ??
I guesses they would follow Mr.diaper but no..

The Brits and Germans flew hundreds if not thousand(s) General Aviation (VFR) hours last days, without a single sign of any damage.

A Irish Genereal Aviation pilot flew several times 'deliberately' thru the Vulcanic Ash layer and reported "the layer was very thin and smelled terrible (easy recognition). There was no sign of 'any' aircraft damage"

Since yesterday (Bloody Sunday) even glider 'tug' flying wasn't allowed :thumbdown:

I'm a General Aviation pilot and I'm perfectly capable of making my own decisions
Note: the number one (1) cornerstone is that the Pilot In Command (PIC) is the final arbiter on the go or no-go decision.

ICAO 'only' recommends IFR in Vulcanic Ash Areas should be pulled.
Recommends mean advisory and NOT mandatory (not binding)!

As we all now, Mr. Diaper King is a lightweight and NOT capable of making correct 'ad-hoc' decissions.
Same story after the Belgocontrol audit (he didn't had the guts/balls to dismiss the entire management staff).

How low can Mr. Diaper King Go!

BTW Several Dutch General Aviation Operators intend to sue the Dutch Civil Aviation Authority (Nederlandse Luchtvaart Autoriteit) for total incompentence. The Belgian Operators should stick together and do the same.

O/T
More or less, it's the 'Political' opposite as in 1986 (Tsjornobyl).
All Western EU Governments warned their citizens for fallout and health care risks, except the Belgian Government who even forbidded the TV 'weather'people to speak 'freely' about it. Surprised why our cancer rate is 'so' high? I'm not.

[FlightMate]

It might be safe to fly now, but isn't the volcano still erupting?

The air of yesterday isn't the same as the one of tomorrow.

Well, let's cross our fingers that all flights will be safe!

[Propwash]

Well, let's cross our fingers that all flights will be safe!

Regardless of (Commercial Operator) pressure, NO pilot or cockpit crew would make a go decission if he/she feels uncomfortable.

Healthy pilots aren't kamikazies

[Desert Rat]

Flying through a thin layer of volcanic ashes can't be worst than taking-off from a sand contaminated runway in a desertic area, the sand is much more abrasive and clogg as well the ventilation holes of the HPT blades...

Flying in very polluted area can be even worst, remember the story in India with the V2500 engines wich were destroyed one after the other, due to the pollution they were flying into...

[Propwash]

Flying through a thin layer of volcanic ashes can't be worst than taking-off from a sand contaminated runway in a desertic area, the sand is much more abrasive and clogg as well the ventilation holes of the HPT blades...

Been there (Sahara), done that and got the Ghibli T-shirt

BTW you can't compare Vulcanic Ash with sand.
Vulcanic Ash 'can' do much more engine damage than sand.

[Desert Rat]

BTW you can't compare Vulcanic Ash with sand.
Vulcanic Ash 'can' do much more engine damage than sand.

Well,It depends of the concentration of ashes and the duration of the engine exposure.

I guess the A/C’s are flying through the “cloud” just sometime during Climb or descent and not during the all cruise, so quite a limited exposure,if you 3000 kms away from the volcano.

When the A/C’s are descending here on a very dusty day, you can smell the dust “cooking” in the engine compressor.

Sand are very different among themselves, and the worst ones for the engines are located in some place in Algeria, Oman and Yemen, CFM had to redesign their 5B4/P at the Forward outer seal to avoid sand accumulation in that particular part, when the sand was liberated it was clogging the HPT blades cooling holes.

There’s not only the engine wich are exposed, all the bleed system with their tiny little sense line could be contaminated as well,leading to potential Bleed loss event, (Dual = emergency descent), Air data references,etc…

But at the end of the day if the concentration of ashes in the atmosphere is very low, what’s the point to shutdown the all business…

Sade that the RAF doesn’t have anymore that special C130 equipped with probes and athmospheric sensor, he might have given some good informations on the Ashes concentration.(I think the A/C now is the test bench for the A400M engine…)

[regi]

Well, as always , unexpected nature disasters can create opportunities .
The last line of the following article shows a good example: go visit the city where you are blocked. ( Singapore in this case )
http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/local/3 ... ean-cities

[regi]

I am a bit surprised about the immobility of the entire travel sector.
I am sure that there are some areas with secondary airports which can be reached without going through the destructive ashclouds.
Because this is a case of emergency, it should be possible to transfer landing and departure to those secondary airports , provide coach and train connections. It is a serious cost. But lodging all the stranded passengers is also a cost. And coming back to normal will also be very costly.

[Desert Rat]

. But lodging all the stranded passengers is also a cost. And coming back to normal will also be very costly.

This is "force majeure" I don't think the travel agent or airlines have to pay hotel for their stranded Pax, only rebooking or rerouting is their responsability, I might be wrong, not being a travel expert...

[regi]

looking at the animation ,it should be perfectly possible to reach southern France with a detour , and put "everybody" on the high speed train.

Euh...reading the press article about the measure taken by Air France, it seems that they had the same thing in mind.