Belgocontrol is Close to Bankruptcy?

[OO-JFP]

by sn26567 » 19 Mar 2010 10:21 am

La Libre Belgique todahy publishes the results of an audit of Belgocontrol made by auditors KPMG at the request from State Secretary Schouppe. Bad weather for the current management!

Filou, it would be nice to give a translation or summary in English

Your words...

Pour Etienne Schouppe, les Régions doivent maintenant payer les services à Belgocontrol. En 2010, le manque à gagner de l’entreprise dans le cadre de ces prestations gratuites est évalué à 10,89 millions d’euros en Région wallonne (Charleroi Airport, Liège Airport, etc.) et 8,97 millions d’euros en Flandre (Anvers, Ostende).

Nice again: the tax payer pays on behalf of the users of the regional airports. And the winner is... yes, always the same.

10,89 millions d’euros en Région wallonne

8,97 millions d’euros en Flandre

Given the traffic numbers at the regional airports, the result must be a typical Belgian calculation.

Yes, you can start again your criticism on me.
OO-JFP

[Acid-drop]

Given the traffic numbers at the regional airports, the result must be a typical Belgian calculation.

I'm not so sure. Look at the movement information here:
viewtopic.php?f=31&t=41628
"Regarding the total number of movements, Charleroi ranks first (6,359), followed by Ostend (4,434), Antwerp (3,983) and Liege (2,981)."
Wallonia = 9340 mov, Flanders = 8417
looks like the % is correct.
Of course, it may change a lot when military leave Liège airport.

[Nevihta]

Yes, you can start again your criticism on me.
OO-JFP

Always bringing that to an opposition between north and south, so improductive.

Belgocontrol had to provide a service when this contract was concluded. Everything that came after was on charge of the Regions.
Meaning : TNT and Ryanair came after this contract ---> region pays for supplementary services

Traffic reduced in Ostende and Antwerp, and they still receive the same service from Belgocontrol.

[jan_olieslagers]

Of course, it may change a lot when military leave Liège airport.

Je dirais même plus: it WILL change a lot. And already today, Belgocontrol's regional ATC services are being used mainly in Wallonia, yet paid by Belgium, i.e. mainly the Flemish. I quite agree to have these services paid where they are supplied!

@Nevitha: are you saying there ARE payments from the Wallonian airports for ATC services? If so, any idea of the amounts/tarification?

[Acid-drop]

And already today, Belgocontrol's regional ATC services are being used mainly in Wallonia

The numbers I gave 2 posts ago proove it's not the case.
but it's going to change anyway, so you'll be happy

[Nevihta]

@Nevitha: are you saying there ARE payments from the Wallonian airports for ATC services? If so, any idea of the amounts/tarification?

No, but as far as I know, the "standard service" to regions was defined in 1989 when the agreement was concluded. So regional airports receive money according to their traffic in 1989, which in Liege and Charleroi, wasn't that important. When those airports grew, more staff was needed, but this extra staff had to be paid by the regions. I don't know the exact numbers.
As far as I know, the agreement also takes into account maintenance of the facilities, VOR/DME, Radars etc...

I might be wrong, but that's what I heard and understood.

Regarding the audit, it's a good thing that it's now written and government can't ignore it, although audit cabinets are not always neutral. ATCO's have been fighting for more than 10 years against this system.

[jan_olieslagers]

And already today, Belgocontrol's regional ATC services are being used mainly in Wallonia

The numbers I gave 2 posts ago proove it's not the case.
but it's going to change anyway, so you'll be happy

YOUR PARDON?

Wallonia = 9340 mov, Flanders = 8417

was written by you, wasn't it? Is it SO hard to recognise truth, even in your own words? Or is 9340 less than 8417 in French mathematics?

[Propwash]

Soon in this theatre "New isssue conflict with Frédéric Daerden and Co"

Just kidding

[jan_olieslagers]

it's hard to belive that frustration and jalousy can create such an amout of hate. Great job.

So if you're confronted with the truth in your own words you can only come up with trash? Great job indeed.
And no I do not hate Wallonia, or anyone for that matter. But I do believe "les comptes justes font les meilleurs amis" (even accounts make the best friends, my free translation). But I am not surprised that some consider it hateful, or jealous, to demand payment for services. It is so much easier to have "the others" pay the bill!

[[edit:]] Actually I do not hate Wallonia at all, it is where I go for flying - and to pay the bill for it! As stated elsewhere, I am happy enough the Wallonian authorities do not show the systematical anti-aviation bias of our Flemish politicians.

[Propwash]

Gentle people,

PLS don''t throw with mud

[Propwash]

De Redactie [19/03/2010 - 13:37] Audit maakt Belgocontrol met de grond gelijk

Regionale luchthavens moeten betalen

Momenteel moet Belgocontrol gratis werken voor de regionale luchthavens in ons land, zoals Deurne of Charleroi. Onder meer daardoor lopen de kosten bij Belgocontrol hoog op. Zo is er onlangs zwaar geïnvesteerd in een nieuwe controlezaal, maar de inkomsten blijven achter.

Extra inkomsten uit de regionale luchthavens zullen er in de toekomst wellicht wel komen, want volgens Europa komt het gratis werk door Belgocontrol neer op onterechte staatssteun en moeten de regionale luchthavens in de toekomst mee betalen voor Belgocontrol.

BTW by the end of this year the ING Loan is fully consumed/used!

[Propwash]

22/03/10 21u58
Spontane acties bij Belgocontrol niet uitgesloten (HLN.be)

Note: if such a negative audit... any normal thinking board would have fired the responsable 'Chicken Wings' management staff immediately. In Belgium it's the opposite, they 'probably' get promotion

[Acid-drop]

this is badly in control of politics so ... you can expect the opposite of what it should be

[Nevihta]

I think it's too late to complain about the past, and now is time to try to save what can be saved, and catch up with things that should have been done earlier

[Propwash]

this is badly in control of politics so ... you can expect the opposite of what it should be

That's why (mis management and political incomptence) worlds 2nd oldest airline (SABENA) ..... :thumbdown:

I think it's too late to complain about the past, and now is time to try to save what can be saved, and catch up with things that should have been done earlier

Yeah, fire/dismiss/replace (one way ticket(s) to Congo will fit the bill) the entire 'Chicken Wings' management staff with competent people, before it's too late

[Zorba]

On the 1 o'clock radio news: there will be actions tonight as from 22:00 local. Capacity for Liège will be reduced by 50%, same thing for Brussels Airport tomorrow.

[Propwash]

On the 1 o'clock radio news: there will be actions tonight as from 22:00 local. Capacity for Liège will be reduced by 50%, same thing for Brussels Airport tomorrow.

Believe me or not, this is 'only' a little warming up.

If the 'Chicken Wings' management staff stay/remain in the saddle, it will be a hot, humid and ATC less summer (high season).

Be prepared!

[Acid-drop]

that's great, but it looks to me that the airport and the pax are not the responsible for this mess.
You better go with a box of eggs to the gov building.

[Nevihta]

that's great, but it looks to me that the airport and the pax are not the responsible for this mess.
You better go with a box of eggs to the gov building.

Hit where it hurts when nothing else works...

[airazurxtror]

it will be a hot, humid and ATC less summer (high season).

I don't think so.
Air traffic is vital to the country.
There is such a thing as requisition of civil servants, or alternatively setting up a military ATC.