Ryanair comes back to Ostend !

[regi]

FR is a good airline. i flew LH,SN,LX etc... in the past and all are great.
With Ryanair, you have what you pay for.... their seats are very comfortable too.
last month, i flew with them to Roma for 25€. Mallorca too for 16€. If you want a sandwich, it's 5€.
It's the market. A lot of people doesn't care about services. they just want to go to their destinations with the best fares. their planes are new and full of pax.

Very well, good for you.
But most passengers do also want arrive in time at the right destination. And when this goes wrong, these passengers expect that the airline would fix the mess. That is where it goes wrong with Ryanair. People realize what the cheap service of Ryanair means just when it is too late. I learned it in the hard way.
But the more positive reactions that come here the better. If I was than the sole poor exception, so be it.
Seems that I and about 1 zillion people are exceptions:
http://www.airlinequality.com/Forum/ryan_1a.htm
And yes, skytrax is useless.

[sn26567]

It is interesting to read Michel Ghesquière's comments about Ryanair's decision to come back to Ostend (sorry, original text in French). Excerpts:

• If you say Ryanair, you say subsidies. Ryanair is said to have gotten subisidies (a total of one million euros) from the cities of Ghent, Bruges and Ostend, the airport of Ostend and the Flemish Minister of Tourism Geert Bourgeois, the same man who heaviliy criticised subsidies to Ryanair in Charleroi.
• Bruges hoteliers expects some 20,000 tourists a year coming with Ryanair.
• SN Brussels Airlines, Jetairfly, Thomas Cook Airlines and Brussels Airport are not happy and have protested. The tour operators see Ryanair as an unfair competition to their own operations from Ostend.

[airazurxtror]

SN Brussels Airlines, Jetairfly, Thomas Cook Airlines and Brussels Airport are not happy and have protested. The tour operators see Ryanair as an unfair competition to their own operations from Ostend.[/list]

Of course : nobody ever is happy to have a competitor.
Competition means you have to improve your product so as to be better, cheaper, or at least equivalent to that of the other. And you are nearly sure to lose some of your customers ...
The only winner is the customer. Being myself one of them, I am glad to have more choice and more opportunities.
The good old times of the Sabena monopoly are over (not a bad thing, in my view) and Brussels Airlines seems not to have realized yet, even after having dropped the SN.

[Charlie Roy]

SN Brussels Airlines, Jetairfly, Thomas Cook Airlines and Brussels Airport are not happy and have protested. The tour operators see Ryanair as an unfair competition to their own operations from Ostend.

So let Brussels Airlines and Jetairfly propose new routes from Ostend and ask for subsidies, nothing's stopping them.

[euroflyer]

the winner here will not be the pax, you pay the same as before in the old times with the Sabena monopoly, my friend. This time you pay less for the ticket with FR, ok, but therefore you pay the rest via taxes (the subsidies to FR must be paid for somehow, you know). The change is: all people pay and only the few who actually fly with FR or who have a job at the airport get the return. Wonderful. And all airlines asking for (more) subsidies? What a perfect proposal , but not my idea of a market economcy

the only winners are: the shareholders of FR! They make more money than their company would be able to do in "normal" market conditions, thanks to the subsidies from the Flemish (and all the other European) regional authorities which simply help shifting taxpayers money into the pockets of MOL and his friends.

The hotels and towns which sponsor such behavior should think again: if you look at people who wait with traveling to Bruges, Ostend or wherever until the one-way flight is available for 9€ or 19€ to Ostend with FR instead of 49€ or 69€ as today via Brussels Airport with SN or nearly any other European airline; what do you think how much will those people actually spend in hotels, museums or restaurants?

[danieln]

The change is: all people pay and only the few who actually fly with FR or who have a job at the airport get the return. Wonderful. And all airlines asking for (more) subsidies? What a perfect proposal , but not my idea of a market economcy

If we would follow this opinion, we should also cancel most of the nationall railway systems in Europe. All the taxpayers pay for it, but only some of them travel by train. Same for public trams and buses.

[airazurxtror]

the winner here will not be the pax, you pay the same as before in the old times with the Sabena monopoly, my friend. This time you pay less for the ticket with FR, ok, but therefore you pay the rest via taxes (the subsidies to FR must be paid for somehow, you know).

I guess it's a joke ?
In the unlikely case it were not, please let me remind you : in the good old times of Sabena, not only had you to pay a small fortune for your ticket at IATA tariffs, but in addition you paid via taxes the annual abyssal losses of the said Sabena ... and that, for 40 years in row. Speak of subsidies !

[euroflyer]

If we would follow this opinion, we should also cancel most of the nationall railway systems in Europe. All the taxpayers pay for it, but only some of them travel by train. Same for public trams and buses.

Hm, but at least with railways and busses (usually) the (main) shareholder of the company running that services in Europe is still the state, so not shareholders anywhere far away are the ones who make the money. Of course all 'public goods' are like this, all roads, schools etcetera are paid for by your taxes regardless if you have a car or a child. The difference might however be: having FR serving Ostend with flights to a handful of European destinations does not really bring SUCH A BIG benefit to the society overall, as a good infrastructure of schools, railways, motorways does. Fine with me for the state to build an airport and even to run it (as long as they do not build one every 50km ), in order to provide a good infrastructure, but than the fees which have to be paid by operators need to be the same for everyone and must be 100% transparent. And that is where it gets difficult with FR ...

[regi]

the winner here will not be the pax, you pay the same as before in the old times with the Sabena monopoly, my friend. This time you pay less for the ticket with FR, ok, but therefore you pay the rest via taxes (the subsidies to FR must be paid for somehow, you know). The change is: all people pay and only the few who actually fly with FR or who have a job at the airport get the return. Wonderful. And all airlines asking for (more) subsidies? What a perfect proposal , but not my idea of a market economcy

the only winners are: the shareholders of FR! They make more money than their company would be able to do in "normal" market conditions, thanks to the subsidies from the Flemish (and all the other European) regional authorities which simply help shifting taxpayers money into the pockets of MOL and his friends.

The hotels and towns which sponsor such behavior should think again: if you look at people who wait with traveling to Bruges, Ostend or wherever until the one-way flight is available for 9€ or 19€ to Ostend with FR instead of 49€ or 69€ as today via Brussels Airport with SN or nearly any other European airline; what do you think how much will those people actually spend in hotels, museums or restaurants?

20,000 extra nights at 14 euro a night ( at Bauhaus youth hostel in Bruges, see website ) is a whopping total income of ...hold on dear audience...280,000 real euro's. On the condition that those 20,000 extra passengers will come and stay in Bruges.
Add 5 euro a person a day for food and drink from the local supermarket, maybe 10 euro a person for public transport and we have a winner ! Euh...a looser. Me. The Brugian tax payer.
It goes about profit. Ryanair left us already once after cashing in and making the authorities so crazy that they even changed the name of the airport - which is older than O'Learry.
I still have not read here 1 valid argument that is positive for me as Brugian taxpayer that we give subsidies to a private company to bring tourists to Ostend.
Has somebody estimated the loss of business because there will appear all kind of low quality things chasing away the quality tourists?
Where is that study?

[pressman]

regi ,

You should be ashamed of some of your posts , which display you to be a snob , a xenophobe and a bigot . No one has any issues with your dislike of ryanair as a company but your utter contempt and bigoted view of their passangers is a downright disgrace .
Your understanding of economics is limited as well if you believe your own posts . I cannot believe that no one here has pulled you up on this extremely blinkered view of FR passangers , which by the way are very often extremely wealthy people travelling to their holiday homes .

[regi]

During my many conversations with restaurant, pub and hotel owners I can tell you this:
Brittish and German customers are very welcome, good spenders. They demand quality and are sensitive for personnal attention instead of mass tourism.
The Japanese tour groups stay over in hotels more expensive than average. During the day they spend very little, just some souvenirs. But the Japanese expats from Düsseldorf appreciate very much the high quality of real Japanese food at Tanuki.
The Chinese stay in cheaper hotels,all tour groups, all costs included. They raid the morning breakfast, plastic bagg in the hand for the midday lunch. Not even 1 beer in the hotel bar at night.
The Brittish bring also many 1 day holiday shoppers by coaches, from even the Midlands . They buy some chocolates, some have a lunch, but at 16h00 they all start to walk back to the coach parking. On the way back , they will stop at a tabacoo and beer/liquor store.
French and Dutch tourists are a mix of cheap day tourists as well as people who stay over, visit a museum, watch a special concert, go for an expensive meal. They come by car or train.
Sometimes we see Italian and Spanish school groups ( arriving by coach ) , who stay mostly at the youth hostel outside the city center for 1 night. They are good customers of the hamburger restaurant at the central market square and some local pubs. And that is it.
A special group are the Belgians themselves. Arriving by car, coach or train, it is a very mixed lot. The impact of the Bongo cheque is quite important. Some higher class hotel owners complained to me that it brings them customers who received such a "weekend in Bruges" from the family or friends for early retirement or a jubilee. But those people hardly know how to behave in a hotel. And they complain that they have to pay for things that are not included in the Bongo ticket. Well.
1 group I have not mentioned: people who arrive by airplane. They do exist because the coaches from Charleroi ( Ryanair and Wizzair ) come to Bruges. Not from Zaventem
Where is the study that proves that those tourists coming by LCC bring us any benefit - if not chase away other tourists?

[galaxy]

Ryanair may refer OST as " Bruges west ". Instead of talking about the most depressing city in Europe , the British press can say now : " Bruges the most attractive city in Europe ".

[euroflyer]

FR passangers , which by the way are very often extremely wealthy people travelling to their holiday homes .

That I can confirm! The point is, those people would fly anyway, they just make some savings by flying FR instead of AF or LH or SN, paid for by - the average tax payer. Wonderful!

I do not have anything against people flying with FR. I just cannot see the point how it can make sense for public authorities to sponsor that particular company.

[regi]

regi ,

You should be ashamed of some of your posts , which display you to be a snob , a xenophobe and a bigot . No one has any issues with your dislike of ryanair as a company but your utter contempt and bigoted view of their passangers is a downright disgrace .
Your understanding of economics is limited as well if you believe your own posts . I cannot believe that no one here has pulled you up on this extremely blinkered view of FR passangers , which by the way are very often extremely wealthy people travelling to their holiday homes .

wrong
people who know me personally know very well that I have very personal reasons to be not a xenophobe.
I excused myself already that I generalised about Ryanair passengers. It was based on my fixation on strange behaviour of some passengers during my Ryanair flights that I had never witnessed during any of my other numerous flights except with Biman.
Why should I be ashamed if I tell that I don't agree that I should pay taxes to bring people over here who don't contribute to my well being?
You are clearly not aware about the fact that this whole Ryanair subsidy is a very hot issue here at Brugian politics. We talk about money. Not the way people dress.
My economic knowledge could be far greater than you might expect. I still wait for the publication of the negative impact study of the first arrival of Ryanair years ago. The study has been started, but been shelved because irrelevant because Ryanair disappeared again. I would say: bring it up before you give Ryanair all kind of incentives again.. Ask the people of WES. Sensitive subject. If you don't know WES, stay out of the economic discussion, because it shows you are not informed. I am.
Snob? Me? Because I dislike people who vomit and urinate all around the cheap guest houses? Same excrements that you don't find in front of the Tuileries or the Duc de Bourgogne?
Making a distinction between the origin of people is not xenofobism or racism. It is just a distinction. I rather like a good spending Polish tourist than a Belgian cheap charlie.

Your personnal attack shows clearly that you have no facts , which I do have. Come back with data to slam around my ears and I will accept your comments as facts.
And again: Ryanair is not yet here...

[regi]

Ryanair may refer OST as " Bruges west ". Instead of talking about the most depressing city in Europe , the British press can say now : " Bruges the most attractive city in Europe ".

Am I right that you mean Ostend as depressing and Bruges as attractive ? Or did you mean it differently?
Just a question, not my opinion.

[regi]

the winner here will not be the pax, you pay the same as before in the old times with the Sabena monopoly, my friend. This time you pay less for the ticket with FR, ok, but therefore you pay the rest via taxes (the subsidies to FR must be paid for somehow, you know).

I guess it's a joke ?
In the unlikely case it were not, please let me remind you : in the good old times of Sabena, not only had you to pay a small fortune for your ticket at IATA tariffs, but in addition you paid via taxes the annual abyssal losses of the said Sabena ... and that, for 40 years in row. Speak of subsidies !

I think I have to stand with airazurxtror. I never bought a Sabena ticket because it was about 30% more expensive than the average competition for long haul. But...I had several Sabena flights as connecting flights to FRA I think.

[regi]

FR passangers , which by the way are very often extremely wealthy people travelling to their holiday homes .

That I can confirm! The point is, those people would fly anyway, they just make some savings by flying FR instead of AF or LH or SN, paid for by - the average tax payer. Wonderful!

I do not have anything against people flying with FR. I just cannot see the point how it can make sense for public authorities to sponsor that particular company.

Some people take Ryanair because it is just most convenient because of connections annex location. I was such a passenger.
Example: many business visitors at the Caterpillar works at Gosselies take Ryanair because it is next door. But I know already quite some UK managers who forbid their personnel to travel Ryanair because they missed their meeting because of delays. ( not only because of the fault of Ryanair: Charleroi is sometimes very foggy )

[pressman]

The facts I have are more ryanair flights than anybody else on this forum , In all my years I have never seen anything like you describe . Pax who fly ryanair spend just as much as pax from any other airline , do you really think that OST will settle for only 2 connections over a 3 year period ? Look at the medium term picture, in 3 years,if this works I would expect a minimum of 20 connections , if not a base . "brugians" are already paying for an airport which is a ghost town .The state employees will just have to do a little work now . If the connections increase , then there will be new employment which will mean less strain on the government finances . Seeing as you are such an economics expert I suggest you study supply side economics rather than the demand driven economics which are de rigeur in Belgium , there are many theories of economics which can be applied all with different results . Don't be so blinkered .
Sometimes you just have to suck it and see , every day i see the hundreds employed at CRL who would be on social welfare were it not for ryanairs presence .

CRL is now by the way a cat III airport so fog is not an issue , they also have the best on time record and most completions from every airline in europe according to IATA.

[Charlie Roy]

galaxy wrote:Ryanair may refer OST as " Bruges west ". Instead of talking about the most depressing city in Europe , the British press can say now : " Bruges the most attractive city in Europe ".

I also wonder if you are refering to Ostend as "the most depressing city in Europe"??! When was the last time you visited there (if ever)? If you were to rank every city in Europe on their visit-worthiness, Ostend would for sure make the top half of that table! But I don't dispute that most tourists flowing into Ostend airport will have the world famous Bruges as their final destination.
A very clever (albeit obvious) move by Ryanair to encourage Ostend airport to rename as "Ostend-Bruges International". It's called good marketing. The haven't changed the name back either, nor do they want to I expect.

Regarding Ryanair passengers, I think I represent a typical Ryanair passenger. Most people I know personally who also regularly use Ryanair are like me:
Arrive at destination, rent a nice big car, stay in 4/5 star accomadation, eat out every night in a good restaurant (aperitif, starter, main course, dessert), lashings of beer and spirits, some shopping, no urinating in public, no vomiting either...

[galaxy]

Ryanair may refer OST as " Bruges west ". Instead of talking about the most depressing city in Europe , the British press can say now : " Bruges the most attractive city in Europe ".

Am I right that you mean Ostend as depressing and Bruges as attractive ? Or did you mean it differently?
Just a question, not my opinion.

I'm refering to this topic :
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=39375#p215999