Ethiopian 737-800 crashes into the Mediterranean (25/01/10)

[Devon Rex]

in English:

http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/africa/01 ... tml?hpt=T1

And dutch:

http://www.gva.be/nieuws/buitenland/aid ... e-zee.aspx

[BrightCedars]

Flight 409 from BEY to ADD. 90 souls onboard, it is feared there are no survivors.

Stroms can be really nasty around Beirut in winter, but the plane did take off and so do many other flights.

RIP to the victims.

[fretn]

Flight 409 from BEY to ADD. 90 souls onboard, it is feared there are no survivors.

Stroms can be really nasty around Beirut in winter, but the plane did take off and so do many other flights.

RIP to the victims.

plus i can't imagine the meditteranean to be good for them in this part of the year, the waters must be freezing!

[regi]

Hold on a second: witnesses talk about a fire ball in the air.
Yes, can be lightning.
But why do they automatically rule out faul play?
That makes me nervous, suspicious.
A fire ball should provoke the normal reaction : explosion , bomb.
But no, our media rules it out, immediately.
So we will have to wait for the debris and bodies and black boxes. Will not be too difficult , with the crash between 1 and 3 km out of shore.

And nobody mentions that Ethiopia is now a Nr.1 target for islamic insurgents because of their involvement in the Somali conflict.

I don't draw conclusions yet. But I don't accept that the media draws immediately the conclusion that faul play is out of the question.

[Shanti]

Feel very sorry for the crew and passengers.
R.I.P.

[regi]

Just now that they ordered 10 more 737.

Would Ethiopian order 1 extra?

[BrightCedars]

plus i can't imagine the meditteranean to be good for them in this part of the year, the waters must be freezing!

It's not really freezing, we're not talking about the Belgian coast here. But it remains cold if you will have to stay for a long time. Plus the wave activity is very strong (storm).

23 bodies have been recovered so far, or even more, including that of the French ambassador's wife. I'm afraid the chances for survivors are quickly fading.

[sn26567]

RIP to the victims.

... among which the wife of the French ambassador to Lebanon.

[regi]

Just saw the images on the news. The first debris starts to wash ashore.

Not a good sight.

Btw: the bigger navy ships you see in the distance are navy vessels of foreign nations which block transport of weaponry to Hezbollah in Lebanon.
The Lebanese navy is virtually non-existant and uncapable to fulfill a rescue mission 1 km outside its shore during bad weather.
Personnal remark: the Israeli navy which participates in this blockade on its own could show a goodwill gesture to participate in rescue missions , with authorisation of Lebanese officials.

[BrightCedars]

Hi regi,

The Lebanese navy has very little means indeed but they have a very strong will to help, so does the Lebanese Red Cross and so does the Air Force.

UNIFIL at sea is indeed there to patrol in order to prevent smuggling of arms destined to Hizbullah. Now don't believe for a second that the Israeli navy would ever be invited in Lebanon's territorial waters, the countries are legally at war. The Israeli navy is allowed in its waters and in International waters only, they do tend to invite themselves quite a lot however, hence supporting Hizbullah's theory that arms are needed.

I'm sure if our German and Belgian vessels (do we still have a vessel there or did it return or move to the piracy zone) can't find survivors, others won't manage as well, sadly.

[regi]

and the news starts to change:
I spoke about that ball of fire. I tried to pass through a message referring to the Concorde accident but I had a time out. Guess what: now they say that the plane was already on fire shortly after takeoff. ( military source )
Aha !
And a second change of vocabulary:
they say now that the airplane broke up in the middle of the air.

This opens new possibilities: bird strike ( questionable : birds during a rain storm ?) , debris on the tarmac ( see Concorde accident ) or...a SAM attack from the hills. The engine fire alone should not be enough to makethe plane crash after take off. More damage should have been done on the wing, or disintegrating parts of the engine.

But again, we will have to wait for the final reports.
i just wanted to tell you dear members that if you stay close on the news, you see little but significant changes of reporting.

a bit different reading than the rest:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/ja ... hes-beirut

[b720]

Regi,

Please do not speculate.. This is not the only flight leaving beirut, nor the only airline operating at BEY; moereover BEY has a very good record, flights were not brought down even in the dark days of the civil war..

Let us wait for the investigations..right now first concern finding survivors, and bodies of the perished..and helping the families of the victims.

[regi]

Regi,

Please do not speculate.. This is not the only flight leaving beirut, nor the only airline operating at BEY; moereover BEY has a very good record, flights were not brought down even in the dark days of the civil war..

Let us wait for the investigations..right now first concern finding survivors, and bodies of the perished..and helping the families of the victims.

yes, you are right. I should not speculate. But why do you react on my message? If you would have understood my message, I complained about the media and officials who were speculating already from the beginning.
Not me.
Witnesses saw a fire ball in the air.Now it is that the airplane was on fire shortly after take off.
That is not speculation but some facts. And those facts point towards several causes . Please do rememeber that I was the first member on this site who mentioned the exact cause of the Orient Thai crash at Phuket airport , relying on reports in the press and some phone calls to sources in Phuket itself. Only weeks later the cause was officially pronounced - as I had said.
I have most problems with the repeated messages from officials that there is no sign of faul play. But they have not 1 clue what happened. So they can not rule out faul play.
We will see.

[regi]

question:
if a B737 has a burning engine during take off, is it still able to reach reasonable height and fall apart or explode 10 miles further?
This is not a speculative question; It is based on the remark of the military commander who pronounced that the airplane was burining shortly after take off.

[b720]

Should not speculate, nor report on unreliable witnesses.. we should only believe what investigation reveals..

[andorra-airport]

Instead of the media I guess you better read the latest news about this accident on avherald. Those guys are far more objective and accurate then the rest out there. Not that I want to advertise though, its only my personal notion.

http://avherald.com/h?article=4264b8d5&opt=0

[TexasGuy]

This is very sad news. I was in shock when i saw it on TV. My thoughts and prayers are with the families of the victims.

[Soulmaster]

they say it's hit by lightning. there are only 5 known by lightning crashe

[TCAS_climb]

Flash Airlines (unfortunately) demonstrated that an inappropriate pairing of inexperienced pilots could smash an aircraft having no significant malfunction into the sea.

Only the black boxes will be able to tell us what systems were hit and how the crew handled the emergency. The images from the surveillance camera would rather remind me of an engine stall, but I guess no camera captured the lightning strike(s) on the plane. One event does not rule out the possibility of the other. They may have had both in one way or another, regardless of any chain of consequence between them.

Also keep in mind that depending where the lightning strikes the aircraft the pilots may be blinded for seconds, if not minutes.

[regi]

they don't say it is caused by lightning. They suppose.
So they speculate.

It really ennoys me. The media is allowed to speculate about lightning, but any other cause is automatically dismissed.

Unreliable witnesses? Just because it are ( multiple ) civilians who have seen a ball of fire in the air, it is unreliable?