Brussels Airport is a delight.

[teach]

Second thing : how about the lack of friendliness of Brussels staff and barely hidden "Flamingantism"?

Very strange, because, as others have already said, I notice the exact opposite: people, especially in the food establishments, newspaper kiosks etc, who don't speak a word of Dutch, and don't even attempt to. They'll greet you in French, and only French. Some will speak Dutch or attempt to if you make it very clear that you're Flemish (by speaking Dutch to them), some won't.

I suggest it's inability rather than refusal.

It's refusal. It's not difficult to address someone in another language, or tell them how much something costs. Anyone can learn that. Nobody's suggesting that the people at Quick are fully bilingual and can enter into a discussion on foreign politics in another language. But the basics they should know. No excuses. If management can't find employees who know some very basic language skills, they should teach them, and check their employees to see they actually use them.

I'm not a 'flamingant', far from it, but when I'm at Brussels Airport, the national airport of this country, I wish to be spoken to in my own language by airport staff whose job it is to deal with customers. No ifs, no buts.

[stefanel]

I was talking about the check-in staff, passport controls etc. not the shop or restaurant staff.
They are really rude and unkind and I know many people think like me.
Of course, the language skills at BRU are excellent, we are in Belgium not in Spain lol
And yes they are Flemish, simply because French-speaking Belgians have poor Dutch skills.
Belgocontrol as well is totally flamingant. I worked there so I know it for sure.
Just look at the proportion of French-speaking persons working there!!!

[teach]

They are really rude and unkind and I know many people think like me.

What does that have to do with being 'flamingant'?

And yes they are Flemish, simply because French-speaking Belgians have poor Dutch skills.

In the kiosks, restaurants etc, the majority are French speaking. And the bad language skills are evident with quite a few. And that's inexcusable when your job is to deal with customers at Belgium's national airport. If you can't bring yourself to learning the basics so you can at least address your customers properly, you shouldn't be working there.

I wonder what makes you call the people at check-in and other services 'flamingant'. Do they refuse to speak French to you? Do they treat you worse than Flemish people?

Just look at the proportion of French-speaking persons working there!!!

Let's not forget that Brussels Airport is still in Flanders...

[Conti764]

Just look at the proportion of French-speaking persons working there!!!

There are plenty of French-speaking employees at BRU, but they mostly work in non customer related jobs, like bagage loaders, cleaners, push-back,...

[Vinnie-Winnie]

Lol losers seriously can you guys stop bickering about who speaks what language and jut realise that it does not matter what language is being spoken or not as long as the service is good?

I encourage you guys to come here in the US and see how many people do not speak English even in customer service related jobs. Think is talk any American and he doesn't mind!

Point is get on with your lives you got better things to think about and bigger issues than who or who not speaks French, Flemish or even English at the Airport!

Belgium is sometimes like it people: Narrow minded!

[teach]

Lol losers seriously can you guys stop bickering about who speaks what language and jut realise that it does not matter what language is being spoken or not as long as the service is good?

Language skills are part of good service. If I go to my own national airport and am not served in my own language, then the service pretty simply IS NOT good.

I encourage you guys to come here in the US and see how many people do not speak English even in customer service related jobs. Think is talk any American and he doesn't mind!

Americans don't mind? That's the exact opposite of what I'm hearing.

Oh, and your sincere apologies for calling people you've never met in your life 'losers' and 'narrowminded' simply because you disagree with them will be eagerly awaited.

[Conti764]

Oh, and your sincere apologies for calling people you've never met in your life 'losers' and 'narrowminded' simply because you disagree with them will be eagerly awaited.

It seems like a bad habbit on this forum, unfortunately. Some people are so full of themselves they think they can afford everything. This small group of elites are just some arrrogant pricks who don't deserve the attention they need.

On-topic: I'm getting pretty sick of all this BS about how BRU would be full of only Dutch speaking employees who dislike other languages and would resist to speak those languages. It is not the first topic that get's 'raped' by such comments which are further from the truth then the posters obviously seem to know.

I am sincerely sorry for the other users on this forum and the moderators to go offtopic about it, but once again it are other people who spark the discussion and I feel obliged to respond to them.

[Ozzie1969]

Funny how perceptions can differ: I sometimes have a problem with the inability or refusal to speak Dutch in places like the Starbucks or the Quick at BRU... But maybe we should all be a little bit more tolerant and comprehensive...

I'm always tolerant to people who can't (or won't) speak Dutch at Brussels airport : I just walk away and spend my money elsewhere.

But I agree that a lot of the staff at Brussels Airport are rude : for some reason I'm always asked to remove my belt in French, at which point I always ask them whether I accidentally stumbled into Charles De Gaulle Airport...

[Vinnie-Winnie]

I ask you guys a simple question: Which countries in the world usually do better than the rest??? Countries that are open-minded tolerant and accomodating towards any individuals that is willing and able to contribute to society.

What do Belgium, France and Italy have in common: they reject minorities they want people to fit in according to their standards with great great result!

Now if I'm at BRU airport or any other I care about the following: Courtesy when delivering

I'm from the french part of Belgium. I can speak both languages though i tend to use french. I much prefer a dutch speaking individual that delivers a service with broken french but a smile than a french speaker that is moody.

Why did I call you losers? Because seriously you guys do not see the big pictures. Intead of focusing on things such as the airport,its facilities... you talk about the lingua used. Well not being funny here but at a higher level Belgium exaclty does the same in its linguistic squabbles. point is there are more pressing issues than languages at the airport or in this country.

About the US: I live here and tell u what latinos are a non-issue here. On the contrary they are accomodated and no-one is worse off because the focus is elsewhere...

[Stij]

@ Vinnie-Winnie

Point taken, but "cultural identity" is much more important here in Europe then it is in the USA. And it's not just Belgium, France or Italy: guess what happens when a German at FRA isn't served in German...

On the other hand, it should be irrelevant:

You shoukd (at least try to) speak the language of the customer, being it French, Dutch or English. If it's perfect or not, or if the customer has to switch eventually to the language of the supplier to get busisness done is irrelevant, but at least try... Not just at the airport, but everywhere. It's a matter of respect for the customer, the person that happens to contribute around 100% of our paychecks at the end of the month, whatever his language is.

So so off topic, I apologise...

Cheers,

Stij

[regi]

Vinnie Winnie,
Belgium was ranked last week at the top of the most open and tolerate nations..of the world. ( in a survey of best places to live at in the world )

At the airport Zaventem, the staff is not allowed to speak Flemish. They speak Dutch, one of the 3 official languanges of this country besides of French and German. And Flemish? That is a patois, a dialect derived from Dutch. ( We are used to that from childhood: Flemish children are forbidden to use their local patois at school, and are obliged to speak Dutch )

I was also surprised about the remark that Dutch speaking staff was rude. I did not react on it because I thought that the poster had made the opposite mistake.

We dealt with this subject already. For me personally, I must say that the last years my situation has improved in such way that I can use the language of the 60% majority of this nation during check inn and with officals. But as already indicated by another member, it is still French at the food stalls.

Just to take the tention away a bit : we Belgians shouldn't complain yet too much about language problems at Zaventem. During 5 check inns at Amsterdam, the Dutch staff bluntly refused to speak...Dutch ! They continued in English. And during some KLM flights, the staff who speaks Dutch among themselves, refuses to speak it to the pasengers. That are moments that I think Alzheimer overtook my brain decades before the normal release date.

[regi]

a confirmation about the title:
nobody mentioned yet the air quality.
Zaventem has - at most places - fresh air.
Only at some low ceiling places you feel like breathing through somebody else his mouth

Prestwick is a nightmare, standing in line in a narrow corridor, waiting to board a Ryanair "bus".
And East Midlands is also a cause of spreading air born diseases because of the low ceilings, narrow corridors.
Same with LHR in fact.

So, hurray hurray for Zaventem.

Pudong may look nice, but it shares the same problem as with BKK and Abu Dhabi: the aircon is put on -20, Celcius or Fahrenheit, whatever you prefer. It is too cold.

And DUS? Great airport, no complaints, except that they don't speak French

[teach]

I ask you guys a simple question: Which countries in the world usually do better than the rest??? Countries that are open-minded tolerant and accomodating towards any individuals that is willing and able to contribute to society.

Can you please stop assuming we are not open minded? I'm very open minded. I don't care one bit where someone comes from, what religion, sexual preference or skin color one has, or what their mother tongue is. However, that does not excuse them from doing their job properly. At Brussels Airport, the national airport of a country where 60% of the people speak Dutch, that means that when you are in a position where you deal with customers, you are able to address them in both French and Dutch. And as I said before, I don't expect them to speak the language fluently, but I expect them to be able to speak the very basics, and TRY. That's absolutely nothing to do with inability, everything with WILLINGNESS.

Demanding that people working at the airport in a customer oriented job are able to address customers in Dutch (and French) has nothing to do with being 'narrow-minded', it's everything to do with actually having standards. And let me rephrase your question and shoot it right back at you: Which countries in the world usually do better than the rest: countries that have standards for the quality of the work or services they deliver and expect, or countries who just muck around a bit?

Still waiting for your apology. Or are you too 'open minded' for that?

What do Belgium, France and Italy have in common: they reject minorities they want people to fit in according to their standards with great great result!

I'm sorry, exactly what does this have to do with the discussion? Who mentioned minorities? Nobody did, so stop trying to insinuate things that aren't there. It's insulting, yet again.

I much prefer a dutch speaking individual that delivers a service with broken french but a smile than a french speaker that is moody.

Hence what I said before: I don't expect fluent Dutch from a French speaking person, but I DO expect them to try. What about a Dutch speaking person who REFUSES to speak French to you at the airport? You'll switch to Dutch you say? Good for you. Now what about those many, many Wallonian people who don't understand Dutch? You think it's perfectly OK if service people at the national airport refuse to speak French to them? If so, your standards and your definition of what good service constitutes are meagre at best.

[Conti764]

What do Belgium, France and Italy have in common: they reject minorities they want people to fit in according to their standards with great great result!

Ah, if you want to go down that path, be ready to see the bigger picture. Since you seem to live in the US, you should know what a hassle it is to even reside in that country, let alone in Canada or Australia. This makes that foreigners who get to those countries have a goal in mind and at least have some (financial and social) backing, while in the countries you mention we have the problem of overimmigration with people who are seeking their luck and fortune in countries like Belgium which are known to have a tight social security and who are easy to get into and reside without somebody bothering you. Whether you understand or not, this leeds to tentions.

I don't know about Wallonia, I never get there, but Flemish are amongst the most openmindend and welcoming people in the world. A foreigner gets easily helped in his own language or at least English or French. If a foreigner ends up in a Flemish hospital, chances are big he or she gets helped in at least English. Something which has even been mentioned in the CIA World Factbook a few years ago. Muslims f.e. are free to build mosques and the Jews even have their own school(s) in Antwerp. Speaking about Muslims, do you think the average Muslim has a joyful life in the US right now?

So stop claiming we are narrow minded and don't like foreigners and get your facts right.

We are leading offtopic now, but one cannot go around the fact that in Belgium, many discussions about language lead to politics.

[Vinnie-Winnie]

@ Teach:

I said open-minded, tolerant and accomodating not only open-minded... Picking one word out of many will obviously change the general meaning of what I said.

About apologizing? What I said still remains in my eyes valid. From this forum to the European Union, a lot of people tend to focus on non-issues with high sentimental value such as the use of languages.

Now you can talk all you want about defining quality of service. What I see is that I don't interact much anyway with the people this fuss is all about. Also if you want them to be good at languages, you going to have to pay them more to attract them/retain them. That will trickle down to prices which are going to be even higher than they already are.

Point is there is no point of asking the moon. I prefer good coffee to good service...

@ Conti

Back to politics: Don't know where you got that from but it is entirely incorrect! A lot of Indians, Ethiopians and Nigerians to name a few people that have been admitted here on all sorts of grounds. And no trust me Belgians from both sides do not have a reputation as welcoming people spoken to enough non-Belgians to realise that!

[regi]

Open mindness in Flanders:
the largest hospital in Bruges has a seperate working cell for people from the UK. Because of the enormous waiting list for not life treatening operations at the NHS, many English cross the channel.
We welcome them and they are treated here as ...anybody else, Belgian, Togolese or Americans.
And no, the first question is not " do you have an insurance ? "

My GP doctor helps quite some illegal immigrants - for free.( despite he is Flemish, catholic and wealthy ) He addresses the people in the language to get along with: Dutch, French, English and even Lingala.

On topic: Did our US member forget 9-11 ? Was he not aware that when many US citizens were unable to fly back home, many Belgians have gone to the airport to invite Americans to stay with us as long as the problem lasted? I did. I had a US jewish family staying for 5 days. They repeated more that they were jewish than saying they were Amercians. Still don't know why they made that difference. Is that an example of the open minded open cultural USA? They cooked seperately and didn't say a lot. I invited them to use the phone, fax ad PC for free - which they accepted. 5 days later I drove them back to Amsterdam for another flight to the USA ( 500 km go and return) They didn't ask how much it costed me. Afterwards I did not get 1 letter,email , card. I guess I have insulted them to invite them into my house. Sorry not to know every culture.
I also was on good terms with a local guy from Cote d'Ivoire. He was a strict muslim, so we drunk tea. When my son helped his son once with his home work, they had drunk coca cola and eaten crisps. I got a phonecall from daddy that he would never have contact with us again because we pushed his son to eat "harram". Sorry again.
Open minded US? How many US citizens of Japanese decent were imprisoned during WW2 and how many didn't survive because of bad treatment? Comparison: we didn't do that to the Congolese when they went for independance from Belgium. Have your Nigerian friends told you that story as well when they were complaining about us? Have your Nigerian friends told you what Australians do with illegal immigrants ( they put them on a desolate island Nauru ) We give -even illegals, unbelievable - food, shelter, and after some years even official residence papers. Maybe the Nigerians are right about us: we should give them the full Belgian citizenship immediately when they start to shout for it. The US treats its illegals differently: they let them work at low wages, without any insurance, protection, union membership, child support ( you have that as well in the US?). When a local governor needs to show his strength they round up some busses of latin americans and pop them over the border. The children of illegal immigants cannot get US citizenship. Different story here in Belgium.
Did your Nigerians invite you to go demonstrate in front of the Thai embassy after the Thai Navy drag a vessel with 300 refugees back into the sea. About 100 survived when they landed after some weeks on the Nicobar islands.
Hey, keep on eating it, US man: why did you not write your congress man to protest that Thailand extradited > 4000 Hmong back to communist Laos, just 2 weeks ago? Hmong people, unknown to you? They helped your special forces to fight that other war in the sixties.
We Belgians do even accept victims of torture by foreign regimes. E.g. we accept ex prisoners of Guantanamo bay. So does that other so called racist country Denmark do.
Don't tell us about open mindness. The US refused more (German ) jews to enter the USA who asked for entry in the late thirties, than Belgian collaborators betrayed jews to the Gestapo in the middle of the Holocaust. ( different story in that other so called free minded country Netherlands where more jews were betrayed than in most other occupied countries.)
But I know, you don't want to know the facts. It doesn't interest you. You have made up your mind and stick with it. We open minded people know where that leads to: chaos, disaster, polarisation - see South-Africa at the end of the apartheid.

[teach]

I said open-minded, tolerant and accomodating not only open-minded... Picking one word out of many will obviously change the general meaning of what I said.

And exactly how am I not tolerant or accommodating? Tolerance means you respect people for what they are, it does not mean you reward laziness. Refusing to speak Dutch (or French for that matter) is laziness and actually shows an incredible amount of disdain and disrespect. And being accommodating? That's the job of the people serving me, by speaking to me, or at least trying to speak to me in my language in the national airport of this country.

a lot of people tend to focus on non-issues with high sentimental value such as the use of languages.

Use of languages is not a 'non-isssue'. Maybe it is to you, but to a very large majority of people (not just Belgians, or even Europeans) it is not. If you don't think showing the necessary respect to people of your own country by at least attempting to speak their language when serving them at the national airport is a part of what makes service good, then fine, but don't go around calling people LOSERS because they disagree with you. That may have been 'cool' for some people when they were fifteen, but I take it you're a grown man. Start acting your age.

What I see is that I don't interact much anyway with the people this fuss is all about.

And since there is indeed usually not a lot of interaction, that once more takes away a possible objection to the speaking the language.

Also if you want them to be good at languages

Can you please stop putting words in my mouth? I have never said or insinuated that they should be GOOD at languages. I said they should know or be taught some very basics, enough for them to get by in their jobs. The Flemish at the airport food joints generally speak enough French to serve the French speaking customers, so there's really no reason at all why that shouldn't be possible the other way around.

you going to have to pay them more to attract them/retain them.

To be able to say 'goeiedag', 'smakelijk eten' and say the numbers in Dutch? I can teach them that in an hour. Hardly a basis for them to get a raise, especially since quite a few already manage to do precisely that today. I repeat once more: this isn't a matter of not finding qualified staff with the necessary skills. Anybody can learn that in an hour or so. It's a matter of attitude. Nothing more, nothing less. I find it quite staggering that you are actually defending that attitude. I sure hope you don't work in customer service.

[Philippepompier]

And i thought this was an aviation forum..........

[airazurxtror]

for some reason I'm always asked to remove my belt in French, at which point I always ask them whether I accidentally stumbled into Charles De Gaulle Airport...

May I remind you that Brussels Airport is the airport of ... Brussels and that a large majority (some 80 or 85 %) of the Brussels inhabitants speak French ?
It's only natural that the security personal first speak French, they are right most of the time - then switching to Dutch if necessary ...

[teach]

^^^ We're talking about language use at Brussels Airport, in a thread about Brussels Airport and its stregths and weaknesses. This deals with customer service, and so is completely on-topic.