Failed bomb attack on Northwest Airlines, Amsterdam-Detroit

NCB · Post by **NCB** » 27 Dec 2009, 12:17

I'm not an explosives specialist, but I know that PETN is used as charge for ammo. I don't know how it compares to gunpowder, but if it is that explosive, then why did the A330 make it?

Now, my point is that just because the FBI claims it to be PETN, that doesn't make it PETN.
Most probably the first police reports of gunpowder and firecrackers are more likely to be true. If you read the first reports, the police didn't know whether to treat him as a psycho or terrorism.

joyraider · Post by **joyraider** » 27 Dec 2009, 12:46

NCB wrote:I'm not an explosives specialist, but I know that PETN is used as charge for ammo. I don't know how it compares to gunpowder, but if it is that explosive, then why did the A330 make it?

Now, my point is that just because the FBI claims it to be PETN, that doesn't make it PETN.
Most probably the first police reports of gunpowder and firecrackers are more likely to be true. If you read the first reports, the police didn't know whether to treat him as a psycho or terrorism.

Soon after the first reports they said the victim suffered 3rd degree burns on his lower limbs - not sure if you can accomplish that with firecrackers

Multiple people on board also confirmed that the "bomb" looked rather advanced, and the suspect was carrying sacks of "something" on his legs.

NCB · Post by **NCB** » 27 Dec 2009, 13:43

The dude had no bomb, it was dry chemicals.

All non-nuclear bombs have at least one thing in common, containment. Without containment there can be no boom. It's the container going critical, strain-wise, then bursting under extreme pressures that makes the boom. A pile of chemicals can do no more than burn very quickly, and a pair of skivvies offers no containment. This is a non-story, a fairy tale. The dude exists and he scared some pax with his chemistry set....but no way could he have harmed that plane in any significant way.

This has been magnified in significance to obtain maximum effect with the travelling public this holiday. People have been focussing too much on the failed economy, now they can argue the finer points of removing citizens rights to everything, in the name of "increased" security.

Another post with similar point of view on airnutters... the most plausible explanation.

It's been blown out of proportion by the media, stupid journalists.
The media are the terrorists here.

TCAS_climb · Post by **TCAS_climb** » 27 Dec 2009, 15:40

Fear sells paper... and Tamiflu

Atlantis · Post by **Atlantis** » 27 Dec 2009, 21:48

It will be very nice if you will travel to the US. The last hour of the flight all pax and crew have to sit still, no toilet visit, no help for kids, older people or people who needs some help. This is a violence against human rights!!!!!!!!

http://www.tijd.be/nieuws/buitenland/Dr ... 88-439.art

http://www.express.be/sectors/nl/horeca ... 118985.htm

Atlantis · Post by **Atlantis** » 28 Dec 2009, 23:07

http://www.demorgen.be/dm/nl/990/Buiten ... azen.dhtml

Sorry to go Off topic

It's strange that we didn't hear all the bashers on Brussels Airport when we can read such stories on other European airports.

On topic

Propwash · Post by **Propwash** » 29 Dec 2009, 07:44

As long as there are too many 'High, Hot and Wet' Virgins in heaven, we can't solve the problem.

They just like Cockroaches, arrest/kill one and you'll get 10 for free.

Random articles:
Latest terror attempt won't be last (The Wichita Eagle)

(Dutch) Al-Qaeda traint met bodyscans (De Telegraaf)
Diked Marsh Madness Intl. Airport (AMS) 'spokesman' said: "even with Bodyscans we can't guarantee explosive powder free boarding"

Note: due to strict 'privacy' legislation (EU), bodyscanners can ONLY be used for testing (flights within EU only) and Airport staff !

H E R E (ABC News) ... picture of Mr. Abdulmutallab's explosive powder 'oversized Tentipi' knickers.

regi · Post by **regi** » 29 Dec 2009, 16:54

off topic - and in fact straight on topic : when I moved in a house in BKK many years ago, it was infested with cockroaches. I had no experience with these bugs, and everybody told me that it is a useless battle.
After the CD player gave up and a cockroache burned inside the TV set, that was it. I made up a battle plan. Quite accidentaly I just had read some books about the Indo Chinese conflicts . Search and destroy missions, Khe San and the TET offensive etcetera, resulting in the defeat of the western powers.
I started to study the problem and did not use my Baygon sprays yet.
I found out that cockroaches live in very large colonies. One colony lived in a drain. I sprayed through the cover hole quite some Baygon, went for a coffee, came back , lifted the tile and saw total anihilation. 100% succes.
The second colony lived between the 2 walls of my house and the neighbours. I attached a Baygon spray on a long stick, taped the spray so it would continu untill empty and sprayed from the one side to the other. Zillions of cockroaches climbed the walls, with their eggs . Half way they fell back. Dead.
I repeated this action in the morning, midday and evening .
For the next 5 months I did not see 1 cockroach in my house anymore.
Back to topic:
If we don't want to pay the price to live with potential danger, we have to anihilate it completely. If McArthur would have been allowed to nuke the Chinese/North -Koreans in the Korean war, there would be now a peaceful Korea. If the Americans would have dropped nukes on request of the French on general Giap before the Dien Bien Phu disaster, there would not have been a communist Vietnam.
If we don't want that the new enemy "the radical muslim" terrorizes our way of life, we have to exterminate him. It would involve measures such as during WW2 when US citizens of Japanese decent were sent to concentration camps. It would involve terror bombings such as on Dresden and Hamburg, and Hiroshima and N'Saki. We would have to behave in a racist/discriminating way against all muslims and people from Islamic countries. We have done this before with a 100% succes rate. See WW2 against Japan and against the nazi's. As long as we don't do that we will see these new style cockroaches pop up.

andorra-airport · Post by **andorra-airport** » 29 Dec 2009, 17:41

If life was that easy. There is only 1 problem with your "cockroaches" extermination plan: Yours lived in 1 house, the terrorists in millions and millions of houses in probably all countries in the world. And don't forget the huge mountainous areas in Pakistan etc, with who knows how many caves. And even if you could "nuke them down", that would form new "revenge" groups...

regi · Post by **regi** » 29 Dec 2009, 21:04

Fiew, luckely enough you could read well my message. It is not my opinion, nor my favourite solution.
But the ball is rolling:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8433601.stm
about the body scanners

fresh from the press: a new bomb attack at Milan airport:
http://www.vandaag.be/buitenland/23442_ ... ilaan.html

The house you refer to is our western world. We can protect it, by fencing the areas from where nasty people come from. And than we take the ultra facist decision to expell everybody we consider a possible risk back to the country of origin, even if they are born here. See the terrorists in the UK who blew up the busses and subway.
This program works in Israel. I do hate this way of protection. It is racist , discrimating, dishonnest. But it works. No more suicide bombers in Israel's borders. And its own citizens are not considered as potential hazards. This is what is happening now with all the air passengers worldwide. Everybody is checked. This could be turned around, if we look at the raw facts: how many white christians blew up western airplanes? So why control white christians any longer? It is time that we dare to say: look, you are not caucasian, you are listed as a muslim, so you are a treat. So you are vigoursly checked. If you don't like it, don't fly. El Al passengers complain about the heavy checks on non-Israeli/Jewish people. I know I can not stand such an interrogation. So I decided not to book on El Al, and choose a bit more expensive option.

Using nuclear bombs has proven to be 100% effective. It stopped the Japanese in a blink. Despite they were spreaded all over Asia ( China, Korea, Mantsouria, Indo China, Burma, Malaysia, Indonesia, Pacific, ...) You are wrong that it creates new revenge attacks. Nor the Germans, nor the Japanese continued guerilla attacks after they were beaten.
We don't have to nuke Islamabad, Kabul or Riad. We just put a fence around it. And we allow them to pass our gates only if they live according to our traditions, customs. Rome lasted about 1,000 years.
Oh, by the way, I know that the first plane hijacking was not by a muslim. It was by a white christian male...

regi · Post by **regi** » 29 Dec 2009, 22:19

and a man from Guinee succeeded twice to climb over the fence of Brussels airport and reach an airplane.
http://www.standaard.be/artikel/detail. ... 122009_037

Personnal comment:
20 years ago all combat platoons ( army, airforce, marines and commando's ) did a rotation watch at Zaventem, together with the nuclear installations of Doel, the Royal Palace and some other communal protection duties during international exercises.
Especially "Duty Zaventem" was very sensitive. ( security was doubled each time there was an El Al airplane movement ) 18 year old conscripts were given jeep ( Iltis

) mounted MAG machine guns loaded with life rounds. Box open, belt in the MG and bullet in the chamber.
One day a conversation on the radio went like this:
Airport police: " A black man has escaped . If you see him near an airplane immediately shoot him. But only if you are sure that you will not hit something else"
Squad sergeant: " Euh, can you repeat that please?"
Airport police: "Can't you hear, dum soldier? If you see a nxxxxx, shoot him. That is an order"

I was at the steering wheel of the jeep. The 18 year old boy behind the MAG said " let's get him", eyes wide open.
I stopped the jeep, ordered my sergeant to neglect the message of the airport police because they were not our superiors. We both dismantled the MAG and continued our drive around the inner perimeter, guns unloaded. The boy was shocked afterwards because of his cowboy behaviour. I am sure that if he would have seen a coloured person somewhere near the perimeter, he would have emptied his MAG in 5 seconds.
Accidents will happen, just wait and see.

regi · Post by **regi** » 30 Dec 2009, 17:57

There can be said a lot about this. I refer to the cockroaches in the previous posts. I do realize that some other communities see us westerners as cockroaches. The Vietnamese did and they wiped the US cockroaches out of their country, same as the Khmer and Lao liberation armies did.
The English succeeded to route out all resistance by the Boers. The Bolsjewiks used even the same expression of cockroaches and there was not 1 insurgency attack after WW2.
It is not nice to do it. But I rather belong to the "Roman" empire and live in a Pax Romana/Americana than in the barbarian world outside.
The Nigerian goernment does also want to belong to our world and decided to install body scanners, together with the Dutch.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8434805.stm

So if you don't want to be scanned and don't want to be hand searched (haram ! ) , well, you will not fly. Simple.

Propwash · Post by **Propwash** » 30 Dec 2009, 20:34

regi wrote:So if you don't want to be scanned and don't want to be hand searched (haram ! ) , well, you will not fly. Simple.

Even with full bodyscans NOBODY can guarantee explosive powder free boarding.

Governments are 'currently' over reacting and use fear for security policy.
It's much better .... (security policy) on relational basis.

Today, the Minister of the Interior and Diked Marsh Madness Relations (waterboarding Truusje Ter Dorst) did 'again' some serious Window Dressing, (Dutch article) wereld aan ramp ontsnapt (De Telegraaf).

Anyone who is familiar with the Diked Marsh Madness Intl. Airport (AMS) security situation, know it's a Swiss cheese and the 'Private hire' security employees are treated like 'low cost' throw away slaves.

The same newspaper (De Telegraaf) reports 'War on Terror minded' Uncle Sam wanna retaliate Mr. Abdulmutallab's action by attacking al-Qā‘idah in Yemen, (Dutch article) VS bereiden vergeldingsactie in Jemen voor.

I think Uncle Sam can better sit back & relax and accept they ain't the untouchables anymore.

regi · Post by **regi** » 31 Dec 2009, 01:05

Seems that you confused the sender and receiver :
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/de ... ikes-yemen
The Predators are doing over time

It are the cockroaches who are going to be sprayed, not the guy from Rentokil.

The Americans are untouchable. Well, almost. As long as they don't leave their compounds.

fretn · Post by **fretn** » 31 Dec 2009, 01:19

Well, they just can't sit down and accept it that there will be more (attempted) bombings on passenger airliners... can they?

I'd have no problems with a full body scan. safety above everything, as you don't know the people who scan you in most (say practically every) occasions i see no privacy issues over there. and "fuck" those people who don't want to have one, either they get a manual search on every part of the body or they don't board simple as that.

Although i do have my doubts on some of the personnel working over at airports.
Especially around city's with huge immigrant communities (like brussels), i can imagine that one extremist person who has sympathy for terrorism put's a bomb in the cargo hold, that shouldn't even be that much of a thing to do.

Anyway, flying is still safe to me.

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