Failed bomb attack on Northwest Airlines, Amsterdam-Detroit

andorra-airport · Post by **andorra-airport** » 26 Dec 2009, 04:34

(all news agencies at this moment)

"A Northwest Airlines Airbus A330-300 in Delta colors, registration N820NW performing flight NW-253 from Amsterdam (Netherlands) to Detroit,MI (USA) with 278 passengers, was on approach to Detroit, when a Nigerian male passenger attempted to ignite a powdery substance attached to one of his legs. Passengers alerted by the smell and shine of fire stormed out of their seats and subdued the Nigerian. The crew declared emergency reporting a possible hijack attempt and continued for a safe landing at Detroit, the airplane rolled past the end of the runway (supposedly 04L) and stopped on the stop area, where passengers disembarked. The Nigerian was taken into custody and is reported to have received second degree burns to his leg" (avherald)

Propwash · Post by **Propwash** » 26 Dec 2009, 05:38

Latest CNN News H E R E (Explosive device set off aboard airliner)

TCAS_climb · Post by **TCAS_climb** » 26 Dec 2009, 10:39

Well... I guess you could say that it shows how current security measure are effective. By limiting the quantity of certains products you can still get 2nd degree burns but not blow up the whole plane. Zero risk is illusive anyway.

Unfortunately...

Security screening was already a pain in the butt and it's going to be even worse, just because the public -in its infinite wisdom (sigh)- wants our leaders to show that "they're doing something about it".

Propwash · Post by **Propwash** » 26 Dec 2009, 11:01

TCAS_climb wrote:Unfortunately... Security screening was already a pain in the butt and it's going to be even worse, just because the public -in its infinite wisdom (sigh)- wants our leaders to show that "they're doing something about it".

Yeah,

Merry Christmas from the Diked Marsh Madness Airport (AMS) security and 'Holy' Harry Potter muppets.

As 'Airport' security is BIG business, they will 'again' tightening up and sucking 'more' BS money out of our pockets :thumbdown:

Renegade (Barry Obama) was briefed on the incident during a secure phone call with aides, and instructed in a subsequent discussion with security that all appropriate measures be taken to increase security for air travel

source

Note: Renagade is the Secret Service code name for Barry.

Some

facts:
1. Database showed ties to extremist groups
2. One-way ticket (if true)
3. Carry-on luggage only

We must be lucky that this guy wasn't smart enough to complete his mission.
Once things are 'getting' on fire it's a recipe for disaster.

BTW within a few years the Diked Marsh Madness Airport (ELEV -3 meters) security problem is definitely (Global Warming) solved

NCB · Post by **NCB** » 26 Dec 2009, 14:07

Hah, another government set-up, public scare Richard Reid-style, "I swear that I'm from Al-Qaida" comedy.

What's the next step? Remove our teeth at the screening?

Sad that governments can so easily manipulate people into whatever measures they want to take... whatever their aim is (create jobs, play Big Brother, etc..), a single media event is sufficient to attract worldwide attention and to impose new measures that the public would oh so easily accept in these circumstances.

People remove shoes and pants at the front entrance, and yet the unguarded backdoors are wide open... just tells enough about the cavemen security policies applied at airports nowadays.
World airports like Brussels and Amsterdam have failed security tests and audits with flying colours, it would be best to focus on those threats first before jumping on the useless, costly, high-tech stuff.

Propwash · Post by **Propwash** » 26 Dec 2009, 14:27

NCB wrote:What's the next step?

Rectum intestinum checks :shh:

Inflight when entering hostile (U.S.) Airspace:
Passengers must remain seated
No access to carry-on luggage
No personal effects in posession incl. bags, pillows, blankets and diapers etc.
No cameras
No internet
No mobile phone calls
No satellite phone calls
No aircraft position announcements
No in-flight entertainment except U.S. Amish propaganda etc.
etc.

At bordercontrol you'll be threated as a 'potential' criminal/terrorist.

Welcome to the U.S.A.

Conti764 · Post by **Conti764** » 26 Dec 2009, 16:02

Since security for US bound aircraft is tightened again, demanding a second 100% check, I suppose the old 'US only'-zone at the end of the B-pier is reintroduced again? Only problem though is that almost every long haul flight from the B-pier in the morning is US bound...

Propwash · Post by **Propwash** » 26 Dec 2009, 17:19

To be honest the U.S.A. .... only misery (ECHELON II, Iraq, War on Terrorism, Afghanistan, Financial crisis, Opel, SAAB etc. etc.)

Be wise and spend/invest your 'holiday' money on more welcoming destinations!

Instead of going West, go South, South West or 'far' East where you feel welcome and they 'still' smile at you

NCB · Post by **NCB** » 26 Dec 2009, 17:25

Gunpowder and fire-crackers... like that is going to blow up an A330.

A background as clown/entertainer can be an asset for terrorist recruitment.

And now there's the hero passengers:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091226/ap_ ... ner_attack

Richard Reid shameslessly tried to lit the "bomb" in his shoes for countless minutes before the "hero passengers" woke up and tied him... and now we can't even carry a can of Coke in our bags.
I wonder how much he got paid to do all that and if he really is sitting time in a high-security facility?

Propwash · Post by **Propwash** » 26 Dec 2009, 18:04

And the 'Holy' Dutch are cover their asses (Window Dressing) by saying NO securitycheck irregularities found @ Diked Marsh Madness Intl. Airport (AMS)

See article
In Dutch (source: NU.nl) Terreurverdachte onderging controle
In English (source: NCTb) Initial findings of investigation into security procedures at Schiphol

Note: NCTb = Harry Potter and his muppets National Coordinator for Counterterrorism

Yeah, "If it ain't Dutch, it ain't 'still' much"

The Global Warming can't be fast enough

Great future for BRU

airazurxtror · Post by **airazurxtror** » 26 Dec 2009, 19:38

The security at airports usually leaves something to be desired over the Christmas period.
For instance, I have been told by a frequent customer that the security search at BRU yesterday (Christmas day) was far down from the usual level.

Post by **sn26567** » 26 Dec 2009, 21:56

If safety was lax yesterday, it has been dramatically increased today for passengers flying to the USW: only one hand luggage, second personal search at the gate. Passengers are requested to arrive three hours in advance at the airport. These measures will remain in effect until 30 December and will require additional personnel, according to the spokesman of the airport, Jan Van der Cruysse.

The European Commission plans that liquids would have been allowed again on board in 2013 thanks to some new types of scanners. I'm afraid that such a measure will remain wishful thinking.

joyraider · Post by **joyraider** » 26 Dec 2009, 23:51

This case very much reminds me of an interview with security crew at a certain airport (I believe it was LHR): because of politics bullshit they weren't allowed to check on just black / middle-eastern looking types, but they had to make sure they checked white people just as much. Very efficient.

NCB · Post by **NCB** » 27 Dec 2009, 00:16

The European Commission plans that liquids would have been allowed again on board in 2013 thanks to some new types of scanners. I'm afraid that such a measure will remain wishful thinking.

The hilarious part is that the announcement of the lifting off of the liquid ban was pretty recent.

In 2002, following Richard Reid's "failed attempt", passengers in the US must remove shoes at the screening.
In 2006, a wave of arrests in and around London "stopped a mass-scale murder plot" which made the liquid ban reality.
In Nov. 2009, officials state that airports buying the expensive screening equipment can lift off the liquid ban in 2013.
Now this incident... what a coincidence.

I know that there's morrons trying to protect people from an attack using biological weapons, which by the way would be most contained and pointless to do on aircraft that benefit from the best filters and air circulation patterns that eliminate 99% of biological matter in the air.

Anyone who would want to do harm could go past security with a load of C4 sufficient to make a hole in the world anyway

The best medicine is to educate the media to stop them from being all-over everytime that something happens in/with an airplane.

Yes mr. media who often visit this website, you are promoting terrorism and hi-jackings on a daily basis and you are tearing aviation apart by scaring passengers by mentionning every single aircraft incident that happens on a global scale, every single day.
Why don't you write a breaking news article about every single bus that had a tyre burst somewhere in Calcutta or Rio de Janeiro?
Well, that doesn't sell as well because people are less scared of riding a bus, but you are partly responsible when something like 9/11 happens.
You promoted the idea by showing them how others did it before them!

Example of such behaviour:
http://www.hln.be/hln/nl/960/Buitenland ... -bom.dhtml
And by the way, what does a A380-300 look like?
It could have the range to fly to the moon! Ridiculous media...

Bralo20 · Post by **Bralo20** » 27 Dec 2009, 01:22

NCB wrote:Gunpowder and fire-crackers... like that is going to blow up an A330.
A background as clown/entertainer can be an asset for terrorist recruitment.

While the early reports stated fire crackers and gunpowder it was clear after a while that it wasn't any of those that was used. But even gunpowder and fire crackers can create enough damage if you know your way with it.

But... Since a while a release was been made that the substance used was identified as "PETN". PETN or Pentaerythritol tetranitrat is actually one of the most powerfull explosives available. It's more powerfull than C4 or Nitroglycerine for example. You can compare PETN with something like SEMTEX. SEMTEX is actually a mix of PETN and RDX, both high explosives. Only few explosives are more powerfull then PETN.

Even while we don't know the amount used we can safely asume that it would have resulted in a disaster when the substance would have detonated...

NCB · Post by **NCB** » 27 Dec 2009, 02:41

But... Since a while a release was been made that the substance used was identified as "PETN". PETN or Pentaerythritol tetranitrat is actually one of the most powerfull explosives available. It's more powerfull than C4 or Nitroglycerine for example. You can compare PETN with something like SEMTEX. SEMTEX is actually a mix of PETN and RDX, both high explosives. Only few explosives are more powerfull then PETN.

Even while we don't know the amount used we can safely asume that it would have resulted in a disaster when the substance would have detonated...

Manipulation is working here.
PETN is one kind of "gunpowder" . Richard Reid tried to lit the same substance contained in his shoes back in 2001... or so they say, thank god that Al-Qaeda conveniently recruits among donkeys.

An engineering student who got a briefing on the material would most certainly know the necessary quantity to create the necessary damage and how to operate a match to lit the substance.
Least likely is that he'd admit that he's from Al-Qaeda after a failed attempt... why not save on jail time so he can get out and try again if he really is commited that much?

Soon we'll go undressed through the scanners... that's the only way to detect explosives on or in our bodies.
And if we don't, those guys with an agenda or the terrorist will dare to blow up an airplane just to prove their point.
Either way, they win, the public loses.

Like they say, terrorism is best ignored.
Governments and terrorists have something in common, they both use the media to manipulate people.
The media love to victimise themselves and they always claim to act in the interest of society/nature but in this case they should be held responsible for taking away our freedom just to sell some publicity space.

Propwash · Post by **Propwash** » 27 Dec 2009, 05:38

Even if you are technical superior (example: Afghanistan) the 'fake' War on Terrorism can NEVER (you get what you paid and/or voted for) be won. It's all propaganda and politics of perception!

If .... idiot, weirdo, smart guy or terrorist wanna do 'some' real Fireworks (blow up an airplane), it's much easier to do it from the ground (missile) .... boarding an airplane and do it enroute.

Note: these days it's 'quite' easy .. trace what you're looking for (example: Live ADS-B and with '2-3 minutes' delay Radar virtuel Airnavsystem etc.), even in bad weather (overcast) and dense Airspace.

[Topic OFF]

We can't put the entire world into reservations, as (example) Uncle Sam did with the real Americans (read: Indians), (example) Australians with the Aboriginal and (example) Israelis with the Palestine etc. etc.

Do we (EU) need G*d Bless ....?
The answer (my opinion) is NO

Europe (without the 'always' counteracting Brits and € consuming NATO) can better sail it's own course and ....... to the 'Far' East instead of the West.

Within a few years (2013) Europe have it's own Global Navigation Satellite System (Galileo) and Oil will not be paid in $ anymore etc.

[Topic ON]

Bralo20 · Post by **Bralo20** » 27 Dec 2009, 11:52

NCB wrote: Manipulation is working here.
PETN is one kind of "gunpowder" . Richard Reid tried to lit the same substance contained in his shoes back in 2001...

NCB, can you verify the things that you write before posting them?

You say that PETN is a kind a gunpowder? Well, I sure wouldn't be in the neighbourhood of a detonated PETN substance rather than gunpowder.

Some figures:

Gunpowder aka Black powder has a R.E. factor of 0.55 and has a detonation velocity of 400 meters per second. FYI, TNT has a R.E. factor of 1.00 and a detonation velocity of 6.900 meters per second. Now PETN has a R.E. factor os 1.66 and a detonation velocity of 8.400 meters per second. Gun powder is classified as a "low explosive" while PETN is a "high explosive". Now you may think what's a low and a high explosive? Well a low explosive doesn't detonate, it deflagrate at a subsonic speed while a high explosive does detonate at supersonic speeds and creates a shock wave. So in simple man's words: gun powder will give you a nice burn with maybe some tiny explosion while PETN will detonate and create a shockwave if activated properly.

80 grams of PETN is sufficient to create a detonation that's big enough to create one large hole in the fuselage at least. Since a plane is less stable during take off and descent this could be sufficient to crash a plane, even when the guy is really lucky and fragments penetrate the fueltanks it would be enough for an inflight disintegration of the plane.

Bralo20 · Post by **Bralo20** » 27 Dec 2009, 12:05

Propwash wrote: If .... idiot, weirdo, smart guy or terrorist wanna do 'some' real Fireworks (blow up an airplane), it's much easier to do it from the ground (missile) .... boarding an airplane and do it enroute.

Actually on the contrary... While it may seems easy to "shoot down" a plane from the ground it's not that easy to do with some old and cheap missile... Unless you have a newly designed infrared or laser guided missile but those are very expensive and I assume hard to get since they are rather new. Leaves the problem of transporting the device which can also be a problem.

We won't see SAM'/GTAM's used by terrorists in the future... A man's life cost not a single dime to those terrorists while explosives are available and rather "cheap".

Propwash · Post by **Propwash** » 27 Dec 2009, 12:09

Terror suspect's father tried to warn authorities (CNN.com)

In other words, they knew he was coming

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