Boeing 787 Dreamliner maiden flight
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Re: Boeing 787 Dreamliner maiden flight
ok, is it just me, or is there someone else who find the 787 one of the ugliest looking planes on this planet?
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smokejumper
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Re: Boeing 787 Dreamliner maiden flight
The weather was closing in (strong storms and wind gusts off Puget Sound) and I guess they just felt it prudent ot land after 3 hours. They probably wanted to return to Payne Field where the test program is based; they could have landed later at Moses Lake (Washignton - about 150 miles or 230 km over the Cascade Mountians), but decided to land at Everett.earthman wrote:The flight was cut short from 5 to 3 hours. That's not such a great start for Boeing's 'accelerated' flight test programme..
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smokejumper
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Re: Boeing 787 Dreamliner maiden flight
Seattle Times article on 787 flight. See: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/cgi-bi ... e=20091216
Article and Spaghetti-like, weather directed flight map.
Rain shortens 787 first flight, fails to dampen optimism
By Dominic Gates
Seattle Times aerospace reporter
The graceful arc of the Boeing 787 Dreamliner's upwardly swept wings wowed the large crowd of Boeing employees and spectators at Paine Field in Everett on Tuesday and underscored that this was no conventional airliner.
Viewed from behind as the plane took off on its first flight, the slender wingtip-to-wingtip curve of the first mostly composite passenger jet impressed even Boeing Chief Executive Jim McNerney, an aviation veteran.
"Those composite wings, they just look different than any other wings that have ever flown," McNerney said after the plane had disappeared from sight.
The plane's carbon-fiber composite plastic wings are lighter and more flexible than those in standard metal airplanes, and their elegant curvature in flight distinctively marks the new jet.
In the airplane business, however, beauty won't be enough. Boeing won't secure its financial future until the innovative but much-delayed jet proves itself over the next nine months of flight tests and can be delivered to eager customers.
Still, in an interview after the flight, Pat Shanahan, who headed the 787 program for just over a year and now oversees all Boeing's commercial-airplane programs, confidently portrayed the first flight as proof of Boeing prowess and a promise of further innovation to come.
"After all that hard work, the airplane performed like we had planned. The effort and the commitment was worth it," Shanahan said. "It was a long hard journey. The team working on this never quit.
"One by-product of all this challenge is a cadre of engineering and manufacturing professionals who really are going to be prepared for the next new, new thing we do, which isn't that far out," Shanahan said, perhaps alluding to Boeing's need to update its 737 and 777.
A break in the clouds
With a T-33 chase plane in front and another on his right wing, chief 787 test pilot Mike Carriker took advantage of a briefly bright window in the threatening Pacific Northwest skies to soar into the air at 10:27 a.m.
After takeoff and initial checks showed the plane "good to fly," Carriker turned the plane west over Puget Sound and then climbed above the cloud cover, where, he said, he was struck by an arresting sight he'll always remember.
"There were the snow-capped Olympics and the Strait of Juan de Fuca all framed in the front left window of the 787 at 10,000 feet," he said.
A Boeing T-38 advance plane had reported that toward Eastern Washington "the weather is bad and the air is really turbulent," Carriker said at a post-flight news conference. "So we went with plan B," which took the jet in a spaghetti-like pattern of turns across northern Puget Sound and the Strait.
Carriker said the air traffic controllers gave him free rein to fly wherever he wanted.
He said that in answer to their first question, "It was really cool to be able to say, 'You bet, we are airborne today.' "
He took the jet no higher than 15,000 feet and reached a relatively low air speed of 180 knots, or about 207 miles per hour. That's customary on a first flight.
Less than an hour after takeoff, heavy rain fell on Paine Field and the sky closed in. With visibility and the cloud ceiling both low, the takeoff probably would have had to be postponed if the jet hadn't taken off precisely when it did.
In the end, because the pilots wanted to complete the first flight under visual flight conditions and not depend on instruments to land, the weather shortened the flight from a planned 5 ½ hours to just three.
"We expected to be able to fly a very long, straight flight path," Carriker said. "The only thing that stopped us today was the descending cloud deck up in the Strait of Juan de Fuca. That's what slowed us down."
The jet turned back from the lowering clouds and, after flying around over a relatively confined portion of Puget Sound, headed south to Seattle's Boeing Field.
It landed there smoothly just after 1:30 p.m., greeted by a crowd of invited guests and Boeing executives.
The latter included some whose careers were tripped up by the plane's repeated delays: Scott Carson, who was CEO of the commercial-airplane unit until August, and Mike Bair, vice president of business strategy who was in charge of the Dreamliner program from 2003 until November 2007.
Shanahan, who took over from Bair as head of the 787 program, recalled a final review meeting Friday attended by all of the 787 leaders and managers, at the end of which Carriker stood and said: "I'll bet my life on the work you've done."
At the post-flight news conference, Carriker conceded that "there's always a bit of risk in flying an airplane that's never been flown before. There's apprehension."
But he joked throughout the exchange with journalists, saying that though landing safely was a relief ("I thought the landing was pretty good," he quipped), the flight was also "great fun." The less-than-ideal conditions still allowed him to complete many of the checks he wanted to do ("We got a functional check on the windshield wipers.").
And yes, Carriker said, he would take the jet up again right away if he had the chance.
Next up?
In fact, Dreamliner No. 1 will not fly again for a week or more. Now that it is housed at Boeing Field, engineers will install new instrumentation there.
Shanahan said Dreamliner No. 2 may fly before No. 1 flies again, and perhaps before Christmas. No. 3 will fly in January, he said.
With that, the flight-test program will begin in earnest.
The six test planes must perform well enough for the 787 to be certified to fly passengers by the Federal Aviation Administration and well enough to prove it's capable of meeting the range and fuel-efficiency targets Boeing has promised to airline customers.
Dreamliner program chief Scott Fancher said at the news conference he's sure "the 787 will be the game-changer it was meant to be" for the airline industry.
Representing the first 787 customer at the event, All Nippon Airways (ANA) Vice President Mitsuo Morimoto said he felt emotional watching the plane come in.
ANA is supposed to get its first airplane by the end of next year, some 2 ½ years later than originally planned.
"After the test flight today, I feel confident the delivery schedule will be on time," Morimoto said.
Boeing's top salesman, Marlin Dailey, said the first flight "fires everybody up."
"You know the journey that we've been on — it's been very difficult," Dailey said. "We hit it right. We have a great airplane."
Article and Spaghetti-like, weather directed flight map.
Rain shortens 787 first flight, fails to dampen optimism
By Dominic Gates
Seattle Times aerospace reporter
The graceful arc of the Boeing 787 Dreamliner's upwardly swept wings wowed the large crowd of Boeing employees and spectators at Paine Field in Everett on Tuesday and underscored that this was no conventional airliner.
Viewed from behind as the plane took off on its first flight, the slender wingtip-to-wingtip curve of the first mostly composite passenger jet impressed even Boeing Chief Executive Jim McNerney, an aviation veteran.
"Those composite wings, they just look different than any other wings that have ever flown," McNerney said after the plane had disappeared from sight.
The plane's carbon-fiber composite plastic wings are lighter and more flexible than those in standard metal airplanes, and their elegant curvature in flight distinctively marks the new jet.
In the airplane business, however, beauty won't be enough. Boeing won't secure its financial future until the innovative but much-delayed jet proves itself over the next nine months of flight tests and can be delivered to eager customers.
Still, in an interview after the flight, Pat Shanahan, who headed the 787 program for just over a year and now oversees all Boeing's commercial-airplane programs, confidently portrayed the first flight as proof of Boeing prowess and a promise of further innovation to come.
"After all that hard work, the airplane performed like we had planned. The effort and the commitment was worth it," Shanahan said. "It was a long hard journey. The team working on this never quit.
"One by-product of all this challenge is a cadre of engineering and manufacturing professionals who really are going to be prepared for the next new, new thing we do, which isn't that far out," Shanahan said, perhaps alluding to Boeing's need to update its 737 and 777.
A break in the clouds
With a T-33 chase plane in front and another on his right wing, chief 787 test pilot Mike Carriker took advantage of a briefly bright window in the threatening Pacific Northwest skies to soar into the air at 10:27 a.m.
After takeoff and initial checks showed the plane "good to fly," Carriker turned the plane west over Puget Sound and then climbed above the cloud cover, where, he said, he was struck by an arresting sight he'll always remember.
"There were the snow-capped Olympics and the Strait of Juan de Fuca all framed in the front left window of the 787 at 10,000 feet," he said.
A Boeing T-38 advance plane had reported that toward Eastern Washington "the weather is bad and the air is really turbulent," Carriker said at a post-flight news conference. "So we went with plan B," which took the jet in a spaghetti-like pattern of turns across northern Puget Sound and the Strait.
Carriker said the air traffic controllers gave him free rein to fly wherever he wanted.
He said that in answer to their first question, "It was really cool to be able to say, 'You bet, we are airborne today.' "
He took the jet no higher than 15,000 feet and reached a relatively low air speed of 180 knots, or about 207 miles per hour. That's customary on a first flight.
Less than an hour after takeoff, heavy rain fell on Paine Field and the sky closed in. With visibility and the cloud ceiling both low, the takeoff probably would have had to be postponed if the jet hadn't taken off precisely when it did.
In the end, because the pilots wanted to complete the first flight under visual flight conditions and not depend on instruments to land, the weather shortened the flight from a planned 5 ½ hours to just three.
"We expected to be able to fly a very long, straight flight path," Carriker said. "The only thing that stopped us today was the descending cloud deck up in the Strait of Juan de Fuca. That's what slowed us down."
The jet turned back from the lowering clouds and, after flying around over a relatively confined portion of Puget Sound, headed south to Seattle's Boeing Field.
It landed there smoothly just after 1:30 p.m., greeted by a crowd of invited guests and Boeing executives.
The latter included some whose careers were tripped up by the plane's repeated delays: Scott Carson, who was CEO of the commercial-airplane unit until August, and Mike Bair, vice president of business strategy who was in charge of the Dreamliner program from 2003 until November 2007.
Shanahan, who took over from Bair as head of the 787 program, recalled a final review meeting Friday attended by all of the 787 leaders and managers, at the end of which Carriker stood and said: "I'll bet my life on the work you've done."
At the post-flight news conference, Carriker conceded that "there's always a bit of risk in flying an airplane that's never been flown before. There's apprehension."
But he joked throughout the exchange with journalists, saying that though landing safely was a relief ("I thought the landing was pretty good," he quipped), the flight was also "great fun." The less-than-ideal conditions still allowed him to complete many of the checks he wanted to do ("We got a functional check on the windshield wipers.").
And yes, Carriker said, he would take the jet up again right away if he had the chance.
Next up?
In fact, Dreamliner No. 1 will not fly again for a week or more. Now that it is housed at Boeing Field, engineers will install new instrumentation there.
Shanahan said Dreamliner No. 2 may fly before No. 1 flies again, and perhaps before Christmas. No. 3 will fly in January, he said.
With that, the flight-test program will begin in earnest.
The six test planes must perform well enough for the 787 to be certified to fly passengers by the Federal Aviation Administration and well enough to prove it's capable of meeting the range and fuel-efficiency targets Boeing has promised to airline customers.
Dreamliner program chief Scott Fancher said at the news conference he's sure "the 787 will be the game-changer it was meant to be" for the airline industry.
Representing the first 787 customer at the event, All Nippon Airways (ANA) Vice President Mitsuo Morimoto said he felt emotional watching the plane come in.
ANA is supposed to get its first airplane by the end of next year, some 2 ½ years later than originally planned.
"After the test flight today, I feel confident the delivery schedule will be on time," Morimoto said.
Boeing's top salesman, Marlin Dailey, said the first flight "fires everybody up."
"You know the journey that we've been on — it's been very difficult," Dailey said. "We hit it right. We have a great airplane."
Re: Boeing 787 Dreamliner maiden flight
It's just you...brieky wrote:ok, is it just me, or is there someone else who find the 787 one of the ugliest looking planes on this planet?
The honor of must ugly plane goes to the Airbus whalejet.We'll have to get used to it. It's a new design from Boeing and I like it. The A350 will get a similar look so in a few years we'll be used to this design.
It's just a shame the sharktail got dropped from the design.
Re: Boeing 787 Dreamliner maiden flight
Conti764 wrote:It's just you...brieky wrote:ok, is it just me, or is there someone else who find the 787 one of the ugliest looking planes on this planet?
We'll have to get used to it. It's a new design from Boeing and I like it. The A350 will get a similar look so in a few years we'll be used to this design.
It's just a shame the sharktail got dropped from the design.
I don't like it neither
Re: Boeing 787 Dreamliner maiden flight
right, ugly airplanes. We had this subject in the past already .
I have a suggestion: next time that you book a ticket, refuse to take a flight on a B787 because it is ugly. I am sure that Boeing will give you a job to design beautiful planes.
When I am flying , the only thing I think about is: "How much longer?" and not " I am so ashamed I have to sit in this ugly looking airplane."
I have a suggestion: next time that you book a ticket, refuse to take a flight on a B787 because it is ugly. I am sure that Boeing will give you a job to design beautiful planes.
When I am flying , the only thing I think about is: "How much longer?" and not " I am so ashamed I have to sit in this ugly looking airplane."
Re: Boeing 787 Dreamliner maiden flight
some very nice pictures , showing also manufacturing.
I knew they would use 3M tape to hold this plastic plane together: see picture 19: the tool kit.
http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2008/for ... ne/19.html
I knew they would use 3M tape to hold this plastic plane together: see picture 19: the tool kit.
http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2008/for ... ne/19.html
Re: Boeing 787 Dreamliner maiden flight
Nose of the 787 makes me think of the Caravelle.
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smokejumper
- Posts: 1033
- Joined: 21 Oct 2005, 00:00
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Re: Boeing 787 Dreamliner maiden flight
It does take some time to get used to new shapes. Between 1965 and 2000, I thought the Porsche 911 was the ugliest auto ever! Gradually, I got used to it and in a "Eureka" moment in 2005, I thought it was OK - not good looking, but OK. In 2009, it is still OK, but lacks beauty. Maybe in another 5 years, I’ll like it.Bottie wrote:Conti764 wrote:It's just you...brieky wrote:ok, is it just me, or is there someone else who find the 787 one of the ugliest looking planes on this planet?
We'll have to get used to it. It's a new design from Boeing and I like it. The A350 will get a similar look so in a few years we'll be used to this design.
It's just a shame the sharktail got dropped from the design.
I don't like it neither
Re: Boeing 787 Dreamliner maiden flight
and smokejumper, did you buy a Porsche?
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HighInTheSky
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Re: Boeing 787 Dreamliner maiden flight
No, he just bought a B787regi wrote:and smokejumper, did you buy a Porsche?
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sn-remember
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Re: Boeing 787 Dreamliner maiden flight
It's designed to be efficient.brieky wrote:ok, is it just me, or is there someone else who find the 787 one of the ugliest looking planes on this planet?
A new step in a:c engineering for what looks like a great success for Boeing.
The challenge is now on Airbus. All the better for the aviation fans that we are
The bird to me looks special but I am not sure I would call her ugly.(neither the whale jet imo)
What strikes me most is the tail shape. It's a new design and I suppose it was validated as the most efficient.
Btw the tail of the A380 is also striking (and beautiful if esthetic considerations have any meaning)
With such lengthy tails, both a:c can provide for extended fuselage versions I suppose.
The engines seem close to the fuselage which to me seems more advisable ito material constraints but I am not an engineer in aeronautics..
Congrats to Boeing
Re: Boeing 787 Dreamliner maiden flight
The second Dreamliner, in ANA livery, also made its maiden flight yesterday.
viewtopic.php?f=31&t=41019
viewtopic.php?f=31&t=41019
André
ex Sabena #26567
ex Sabena #26567
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Desert Rat
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Re: Boeing 787 Dreamliner maiden flight
Will ANA have enough support from the banks to finance the acquisition of this new fleet??
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Propwash
Boeing 787 Dreamliner maiden flight
First flight of glitches for Dreamliner No. 2 (The Seattle Times)
Re: Boeing 787 Dreamliner maiden flight
Number 2 flew. Looks like they took the Xmas holidays off.
Why would they have to add more instruments at Boeing filed and not while nothing was happening at Everett?
Strange, you would think they would have number 1 in the air ASAP and finish the first checks while 002 was getting airborne.
Maybe overly suspicious, probably a lot of data to crunch to see if it met the expectations for the configuration they were flying in (low altitude, low speed and the gear mostly down)
Getting airborne was only hard because of all the delays, normally the issue start coming out once they are in test flight. This will be an odd one as many of the systems are pretty mature (as mature as they get ground testing) while the 64 dollar question is the airframe doing what it is expected to do, as nothing can really test that on the ground (wing test is static, its the dynamics that get interesting and if any issue what it takes to resolve them).
Why would they have to add more instruments at Boeing filed and not while nothing was happening at Everett?
Strange, you would think they would have number 1 in the air ASAP and finish the first checks while 002 was getting airborne.
Maybe overly suspicious, probably a lot of data to crunch to see if it met the expectations for the configuration they were flying in (low altitude, low speed and the gear mostly down)
Getting airborne was only hard because of all the delays, normally the issue start coming out once they are in test flight. This will be an odd one as many of the systems are pretty mature (as mature as they get ground testing) while the 64 dollar question is the airframe doing what it is expected to do, as nothing can really test that on the ground (wing test is static, its the dynamics that get interesting and if any issue what it takes to resolve them).
Re: Boeing 787 Dreamliner maiden flight
I don't think it looks bad at all, its different, but so was the Taurus when it came out, changed the auto industry. There may be even more radical designs in the future. Too bad they did not want the Sonic Cruiser!
A380 is far worse looking, though it flies well enough.
The only really important criteria is does it work as advertised? Can they get the excess weight out. I saw the barrel section at the museum at Paine field, amazing how thick it is.
A380 is far worse looking, though it flies well enough.
The only really important criteria is does it work as advertised? Can they get the excess weight out. I saw the barrel section at the museum at Paine field, amazing how thick it is.
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Propwash
Boeing 787 Dreamliner maiden flight
[Topic Off]
Boeing gets order for 11 Dreamliners (The Seattle Times)
and
Boeing has bustling week with 46 new orders (HeraldNet)
[Topic On]
Boeing gets order for 11 Dreamliners (The Seattle Times)
and
Boeing has bustling week with 46 new orders (HeraldNet)
[Topic On]
Re: Boeing 787 Dreamliner maiden flight
I think it is a beautiful plane. It will soon dominate the market.
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Propwash
Re: Boeing 787 Dreamliner maiden flight
Boeing 787 Flight-Test Program Progressing
EVERETT, Wash., April 20 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- The U.S. Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) granted Boeing (NYSE: BA) expanded type inspection authorization (TIA) today, clearing the way for its personnel to fully participate in future test flights and for the collection of required flight-test data. Initial TIA was granted Feb. 11, which supported the collection of flutter certification data.
The expanded TIA marks the FAA's confirmation that the airplane and team are ready to collect additional certification data. Boeing achieved the expansion by demonstrating the readiness of the airplane throughout a variety of speeds, altitudes and configurations.
"This TIA expansion is another significant step toward delivering airplanes to our customers. We remain on track to deliver the first airplane to ANA this year," said Scott Fancher, vice president and general manager of the 787 program, Commercial Airplanes.
In addition to receiving expanded TIA, Boeing finalized the aerodynamic configuration of the 787.
"We have completed sufficient testing to decide that no additional changes to the external lines or shape of the airplane are required," said Fancher. "Having an airplane match its expected performance with so few changes is rare and speaks to the maturity of the design."
The 787 flight-test fleet logged its 500th hour of flying April 16. On Sunday, ZA003, the flight-test airplane outfitted with interior elements, landed in Florida, where it will go through extreme weather testing at McKinley Climatic Laboratory at Eglin Air Force Base.
Boeing released two videos highlighting flutter and ground effects testing. These videos feature commentary by the pilots and the chief project engineer and are available on www.boeing.com and www.newairplane.com.
Source: Boeing Mediaroom
See aslo FAA grants expanded TIA to 787 flight test programme (Flightglobal)
EVERETT, Wash., April 20 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- The U.S. Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) granted Boeing (NYSE: BA) expanded type inspection authorization (TIA) today, clearing the way for its personnel to fully participate in future test flights and for the collection of required flight-test data. Initial TIA was granted Feb. 11, which supported the collection of flutter certification data.
The expanded TIA marks the FAA's confirmation that the airplane and team are ready to collect additional certification data. Boeing achieved the expansion by demonstrating the readiness of the airplane throughout a variety of speeds, altitudes and configurations.
"This TIA expansion is another significant step toward delivering airplanes to our customers. We remain on track to deliver the first airplane to ANA this year," said Scott Fancher, vice president and general manager of the 787 program, Commercial Airplanes.
In addition to receiving expanded TIA, Boeing finalized the aerodynamic configuration of the 787.
"We have completed sufficient testing to decide that no additional changes to the external lines or shape of the airplane are required," said Fancher. "Having an airplane match its expected performance with so few changes is rare and speaks to the maturity of the design."
The 787 flight-test fleet logged its 500th hour of flying April 16. On Sunday, ZA003, the flight-test airplane outfitted with interior elements, landed in Florida, where it will go through extreme weather testing at McKinley Climatic Laboratory at Eglin Air Force Base.
Boeing released two videos highlighting flutter and ground effects testing. These videos feature commentary by the pilots and the chief project engineer and are available on www.boeing.com and www.newairplane.com.
Source: Boeing Mediaroom
See aslo FAA grants expanded TIA to 787 flight test programme (Flightglobal)