Brussels Airport is a disaster when it freezes and snows

[regi]

technical question:

• is the product of de-icing being recuperated?
  Does it happen always at the same place where it runs in a drain, and can be filtered afterwards?
  Or is it just being disposed in the sewer?

[9vsmu]

technical question:

• is the product of de-icing being recuperated?
  Does it happen always at the same place where it runs in a drain, and can be filtered afterwards?
  Or is it just being disposed in the sewer?

I'm afraid it all goes down the sewer.

[airazurxtror]

It pays to invest in "winter-figthing" equipment when it lasts a few months a year compared to a few days.

In the same line : why invest in fire-fighting equipment when there is only one crash every ten years ?

[RoMax]

That is something totaly different. Safety is MUCH MUCH MUCH more important than a one year occasion when you have to close the airport for some snow. Snow on an airport is not easy, look at CDG, LGW these airports where closed to because of the snow and even longer than BRU. But if you think, "oh, why should we buy some new fire fighters if it is very unlikly we will get an accident here". That is very naive.

[cnc]

the platform has a de-icing drainage but when de-icing is done on other places it go's down the sewer

[cnc]

It pays to invest in "winter-figthing" equipment when it lasts a few months a year compared to a few days.

In the same line : why invest in fire-fighting equipment when there is only one crash every ten years ?

the airport can get its money back with airport fees, handling companies only with actual de-icing

[Nevihta]

In the same line : why invest in fire-fighting equipment when there is only one crash every ten years ?

Firefighting is not only for fighting fire, I think it's what they do the least...

[lambrusco]

Let us call a cat ... a cat ... This does not reflect any lack of respect towards Avia or Flightcare workers though.

When I read that it is not worth to invest in a coherent and sufficient material for a few days a year, I understand a very down to earth economical point but can't accept this at all.

BRU is an international airport at the capital of Europe ... over the last years BAC and the handling companies did put many travellers trips at stake with such an attitude ... People who know BRU airport from the inside also know the truth ... this is a big shame. When the de-icing product is not lacking, then it is the staff that has to perform the de-icing or it is the lack of coop between Avia and Flightcare and the lack of intervention from BAC ...

This is an attitude that even in the worst African airports you re not faced with anymore nowadays ...

It is freezing yes ... so what ?
There felt 5cm of snow 2 days ago so what ?
Would you guys agree not to have salt on our streets ... because it happens only once or twice a year ???

Bottom line, the fact is that situation is indeed unacceptable (whoever fault it is ...). Period.


Lamby

[RoMax]

It is a disaster, but believe me IT IS NOT BETTER ON SOME OTHER EUROPEAN AIRPORTS!! BRU was closed for some hours and after that still alot delays and cancells, but in several other European airports it was even worser.

[lambrusco]

Mr Boeing ... I believe you
But let's not compare BRU with other (real) leading European airports where traffic is xxx heavier.
It is not a matter (in my opinion) of comparing airport good or bad shows on this.
If the airport organisation is good, then, well, fair enough to have delays or cancellation because all possible measures have been taken.
The fact is that BRU airport organisation (with all involved bodies) is far to be optimum on this and that is the real shame ...
See what I mean ?
Cheers,
Lamby

[9vsmu]

I have a suggestion for a possible solution.

- AVP, Flightcare, DHL and BAC make a kind of temporary company that provides de-icing at BRU.
- BAC provides an environmentally acceptable de-icing platform (including recuperation an re-use of killfrost)
- AVP, Flightcare and DHL provide trucks, manpower for ALL a/c requiring de-iceing.
- this company also has also ONE tarif. Price will only depend on mixture used and quantity used.
- the temporary company is dismantled when de-icing season and re-assembled if needs require.

Any thoughts on this suggestion ??

[lambrusco]

Sounds like a good one indeed and probably lest costly and more realistic than a de-cing tunnel etc ...
People, make things move or we will face this again this year and the next ones ...

[Atlantis]

And more bad weather is coming. KMI expect 3 to 7 cm of fresh snow and heavy wind.

On the Brussels Airport site you can read that Brussels Airlines is anticipating. They offer a free service to the pax tomorrow to rebook their flight.

[cnc]

I have a suggestion for a possible solution.

- AVP, Flightcare, DHL and BAC make a kind of temporary company that provides de-icing at BRU.
- BAC provides an environmentally acceptable de-icing platform (including recuperation an re-use of killfrost)
- AVP, Flightcare and DHL provide trucks, manpower for ALL a/c requiring de-iceing.
- this company also has also ONE tarif. Price will only depend on mixture used and quantity used.
- the temporary company is dismantled when de-icing season and re-assembled if needs require.

Any thoughts on this suggestion ??

that idea is already old and never put in action so i guess there is more to it then you would think.
-not every company provides the same amount of trucks
-not every company provices the same workforce (btw de-icers are mainly the people who do the pushbacks)
-who will decide where to go and de-ice first? all handling companies will demand their flights are prior
-who will pay when a truck gets damaged or workers get injured

i like your idea but its all about money

[zteven]

Today we had to cancel all our cargo flights
because the workers just couldn't move the
vehicles on the 900 stands.

It was impossible to un/load an aircraft because
they (BAC) still didn't take away the snow & ice...

After some phonecalls they sent sent some crew
over to start 'deicing' the stands but way to late.

Tomorrow we expect some more snow so everything
will start over again i'm afraid.

Greetz



Steven

[Conti764]

Today we had to cancel all our cargo flights
because the workers just couldn't move the
vehicles on the 900 stands.

It was impossible to un/load an aircraft because
they (BAC) still didn't take away the snow & ice...

After some phonecalls they sent sent some crew
over to start 'deicing' the stands but way to late.

Tomorrow we expect some more snow so everything
will start over again i'm afraid.

Greetz



Steven

How can BAC de-ice a stand so it would not be dangerous anymore? They can remove snow, yes. But then you would have a slippery underground. They can't use salt since traffic is way too low and slow for salt to be effective.

[lambrusco]

How they do it is their problem no ?
Com'on ... within a few days we're in the year 2010 and we have to hear that ?
Using e.g high pressure blower or things like that followed by spreading effective salt should do it no ?
How do they do that in the Nordics ? In the Northern part of the U.S ... com'on guys ...
Cheers dudes
Lamby

[Mavke]

Hi,

wel DHL hires a truck that sprays the platform with some chemical stuff, dont ask me what it is but it isnt freezing agian .... wel at least they did it last year , not seen it this year though ...

i de-ice planes for 5 years in row now , and all i can tell " its a big bizznes "
we were 2 days ago de-icing the OO-ASL and 2 bizjet operator came to us for help, they had to leave as soon as possible but their planes were covered with 7cm of snow .... no other company with able to do it ( flightcare or aviapartner ) we helped those guys out ! wel i can tel you they payed alot for or help !
we used 1900liters for 1 gulfstream !! ( 1900 liters x 4euro/liter = you cant coint eh ! )

ken

[Depretair]

Hello

Brussels airport closed again ...

Have a beautiful cold snowy sunday !

[tolipanebas]

When it snows, it's a mess EVERYWHERE, because no airport (not even in Scandinavia) has sufficient de-icing capacity to avoid some kind of delay during peak hours. When you have all outbound flights lined up for de-icing, you just know there is going to be some delay for the last ones in the line. Obviously, airports like OSL, CPH or MUC are better equipped than places like BRU, so the delay there will be generally shorter, but things can turn nasty there too.

What is UNFORGIVABLE however, is the way things go at BRU when it stops snowing.
Contrary to most airports that I visit professionally (and as you all know, I fly for SN), BRU seems to be about the only non-southern European hub airport where aprons aren't cleaned up after a snow shower.
Indeed, it seems BRU thinks snowcovered aprons needn't be swiped, sanded or chemically de-iced, but just left as they are till the snow melts off naturally!

This incredibly stupid approach means that it can take days, even weeks before all snow and ice patches are gone, especially in sustained sub-zero temperatures! You should have seen see how our pax had to glide their way from the steps of our remotely parked aircraft to the busses during the morning rush yesterday, just because it happened to have snowed 2 days ago!

How can BAC de-ice a stand so it would not be dangerous anymore? They can remove snow, yes. But then you would have a slippery underground. They can't use salt since traffic is way too low and slow for salt to be effective.

BRU likes to hide behind the fact that removing snow makes the apron even more slippery and salt is not approved as it is very corrosive indeed, but there are other (albeit far more costly) ways available, which are conventiently overlooked by the airport.... Start de-icing the parking stands chemically for instance, or at least sand them like they do in Scandinavia. Just letting the snow melt and then freeze on again over night, days after days after days is NOT an option! Brussels looked like an ice ring yesterday!

Even better, i hope that at the future westerly extention of the A pier, SN and STAR alliance make BRU build heated parking stands like in OSL, so they are always clear of snow and ice!