future of BMI, SN to Heathrow

[regi]

The partners are not happy, such as Qantas.

Regi, I would expect that QF is teaming up with BA, rather than BD/SN, no?

my e-ticket says that the return flight from LHR to BRU , after a Qantas flight is with BMI. Friends who return on another day come back by BA.

On the go flight BRU to LHR, it is also BA for me.
Yes, I know , complicated ticket. It will be a mess ( again)

[Boeing767copilot]

Would it be possible that BruAir will lease a couple of ERJ's and 1 or 2 A320s from bmi?
Maybe "operated for BruAir" to LHR?

[Boeing767copilot]

BRU-LHR: 4 flights daily operated by SN, 737 or 319

[regi]

still not confirmed

[sdbelgium]

Some flights are loaded...

Code: Select all

SN2091  BRU 0730  LHR 0740  x67
SN2093  BRU 0950  LHR 1000  *
SN2101  BRU 1915  LHR 1925  x6
SN2103  BRU 2125  LHR 2135  D

SN2092  LHR 0830  BRU 1040  x67
SN2094  LHR 1050  BRU 1300  **
SN2102  LHR 2015  BRU 2205  x6
SN2104  LHR 0650  BRU 0900  D

* Daily, but on Sat. and Sun. 5 mins later
** Daily, but on Tue. and Thu. 25 mins later

http://www.flightlevel.be/424/sn-4-daily-heathrow.html

[tolipanebas]

As expected, SN does indeed take over some of the flights of BD between LHR and BRU and the mistery is thus solved.

Looks like BD broke the news too soon while they announced details of their restructuring plan last month and SN simply didn't know how to deal with their unambiguous statement on SN taking over the route, trying to sell a lie even: they are talking about LGW, whereas BD explicitly mentioned LHR in their direct mailing to its customers!

Poor communication performance of both airlines, IMHO. Next time, be prepared, guys.

Back to topic: the schedule makes sense: it provides early morning connectivity to/from AFI (very important) and also allows for day returns on the entire European SN network, while it doesn't try to compete with BA or the Eurostar throughout the day.

The type of aircraft could also change to RJs for the evening flights though....

More network news to follow around 1700CET

[SmilingBoy]

A looooong gap in the afternoon, especially bad if you come back from LHR. Good to see that the 9:50 time for BRU-LHR is kept.

[RoMax]

This gap is there always, BMI operate for the moment two flights but there is still a gap. And the competition with BA and Eurostar would be to big for SN to afford these flights.

[SmilingBoy]

bmi operate 6-7 daily flights during the week! This Friday, for example, you can fly BD on LHR-BRU at 06:50, 08:30, 10:50, 11:45, 16:40, 18:35 and 20:40!

So it is a deterioration in schedule...

[Boeing767copilot]

SN will fly 3 times a day to Newcastle and Bristol, using ac from BMI, probably with ERJ 135 of 145, confirmed bij the new BMI ceo.

[tolipanebas]

I'd love to see formal confirmation of this somewhere, but if indeed correct, then I was close with my predictions about SN wetleasing some BD aircraft, just that they aren't going to operate the BRU-LHR route with them as I had been informed, but rather will be deployed elsewhere in the UK.

from my entry on 26 NOV in this topic:

What would be a viable option IMHO is to take over at least a few of the 6 daily flights [to LHR], operate some of them with own metal (notably those in the morning, which see good loads to AFI) and have bmiregional operate the other flights, so SN/BD can offer connectivity to the European network of SN throughout the day.

Interestingly enough, bmi has told its employees in relation to the 2 Emb145s operating to BRU and which will be returned to bmi regional in January, that bmi regional is in talks with potential customers to place those 2 planes, meaning obviously a wetlease of some sort. Could this be SN, maybe? After all, bmi is already operating wetleases for both LH (TXL) and LX (GVA), so the idea to have them operate on behalf of SN is not that far stretched, especially not since they could be providing a plane with a seating capacity SN doesn't have in its fleet...

Thanks to my sources at BMI, I was not far off, don't you agree, SN1203?

BRS and NCL are definitely good choices for wetlease E-jet operations, since loadfactors on these routes are really low and the schedule isn't perfect either (twice daily on BRS, with inconvenient connecting times, and only once daily on NCL, late in the evening for god's sake!), so using a smaller plane (while increasing frequency) seems like a good idea to me.

Now, let's see how SN tries to sell this one to the unions at SN...
Economic unemployment while outsourcing production, i'd love to see how they are going to sell us that idea!

[tolipanebas]

Okay, now I got confirmation from inside BD where they have sent out the news via internal communication to their very concerned staff, all eagerly waiting some good news about job security.

Flights to BRS and NCL will apparently be swapped from SN to BD (regional) on JAN 10, which is the same date SN takes over LHR from BD (mainline).

Now, let's see how long it takes before SN confirms the news as well?
Or are they first going to deny it too?

Looks like that 'next time' we've all talked about when we referred to the mess about the LHR slot transfer has already arrived...

[regi]

SN has no time to confirm. They are still in bed with a hangover after the Star Alliance party.

Anyway, thank you SD Belgium for the shedule. It relaxes me ( just a bit because I did not recieve it yet from my travel agent ) .

[tolipanebas]

SN has no time to confirm.

It's maybe because they simply do not understand the communication British Midland sends out....

If you hear the English of some people from SN, who are "appi and proat" to be in star alliance (pronounce as if you're talking French), it should come as no surprise.

[airbuske]

This is what I found on the website of travel magazine

Ook operationeel verandert er een en ander. Zo werden gisteravond de codeshare samenwerkingen aangekondigd met Austrian Airlines, op de vluchten tussen Brussel en Wenen; met Spanair, op de vluchten tussen België en Spanje; en met het Britse bmi voor de vluchten tussen ons land en het Verenigd Koninkrijk. Brussels Airlines neemt vier slots over van bmi op Londen Heathrow. Brussels Airlines gaat de vluchten zelf uitvoeren met B737’s en A319’s. De lijndiensten naar Londen Gatwick van Brussels Airlines worden stopgezet. Daarnaast gaat de Belgische carrier meer vluchten aanbieden naar Newcastle (3) en Bristol (3) vanaf Brussel. Deze diensten worden uitgevoerd door Brussels Airlines, doch met kleine ERJ-135 en ERJ-145’s die van bmi worden geleasd.

So Brussels Airlines will get 4 slots from BMI for BRU -LHR and these flights will be operated by a B737 or an A319.The BRU-LGW will be discontinued. And they will offer more flights to Newcastle(3) and Bristol (3) with the ERJ-135 and ERJ-145 , leased from BMI.

[cathay belgium]

So Brussels Airlines will get 4 slots from BMI for BRU -LHR and these flights will be operated by a B737 or an A319.The BRU-LGW will be discontinued. And they will offer more flights to Newcastle(3) and Bristol (3) with the ERJ-135 and ERJ-145 , leased from BMI.

Nice,but will these planes get a SN livery or just a small note/operated by..

A new livery for these planes would be nice !

( a small fleet increasement for SN)

CX-B

[sdbelgium]

Have just been in touch with Geert Sciot. He confirmed the LHR flights as well as the BMI wet lease agreement . On board product will be SN three class, crew is BMI. This has no effect on SN fleet usage/crew rostering, as these will be used on other routes, he says.

http://www.flightlevel.be/426/bmi-wetlease-sn.html

[airbuske]

Nice also for us , groundstaff of Brussels Airlines More work

[airtrotter]

a quick search for February showed flights BRU-LGW by BD but operated by SN.
while for next week, it shows just SN ???

does SN has the planes and people to take over LHR as well as continuing LGW? or will the BRU-LGW flights also be wetlease arrangements?

[tolipanebas]

Have just been in touch with Geert Sciot. He confirmed the LHR flights as well as the BMI wet lease agreement

Well, what else can he do, right?

There's no denying it any longer, BD has already sent out an internal communication to their staff about it, so there's no need to repeat the mistake from 2 weeks ago when SN tried to make the slot swap at LHR look like just an unconfirmed rumour, thus looking fairly stupid when proof came on the table right after!

On board product will be SN three class, crew is BMI.

That's what a wet lease is all about indeed.
.

This has no effect on SN fleet usage/crew rostering, as these will be used on other routes, he says.

Maybe SN should finally start to communicate on those new routes/frequencies too than, because some clarification is highly due: So far we've picked up 4 flights to LHR, lost 2 to LGW(if we are to believe some sources?), 2 to BRS and 1 to NCL... Meaning we're still down 1 on flight and even more so on total flight time, so I'd love to see his reasoning as to this being a 'neutral transaction'.
Or is SN going to continu to operate to BRS and NCL as currently is the case and are those BD operated flights on top of that? That's NOT how BD exlained it to its staff, if I am allowed to poke a bit more into this...

Besides, long term outsourcing through wetleases????
Hmmm, did somebody from management actually check if they haven't signed an agreement with the pilot unions on that issue some time ago? Not to mention that it is a bit weird for a company which is sending crews on temporary unemployment. Let me say the last word hasn't been said about this, which is probably also why he doesn't know too well how to communicate on it....

Anyway, good to see SN and BD getting so close, although it looks to me as if SN is almost taking over BD competely when it comes to the UK-BEL routes! In this context, one would start to wonder about EDI and GLA; will those be the only 'real BD' routes left at BRU, or is there something changing too there, which they haven't told yet?