future of BMI, SN to Heathrow

[134flyer]

Seems like a centralized communication department at LH would definitely be a good thing to have, because whatever is at the basis of all this confusion, BD/SN are definitely NOT staging a good show here, much in contrast to the BD/LX side of the story! Hate to say it, but this is costing us customers thoughout or entire network, dudes! We're talking flights in less than 50 days here, so better streamline the communication asap....

Yes, even if it is technically possible to book a ticket BRU-LHR on both the BD & SN websites after 10 January and BD has communicated that SN will take over the LHR flights, given the fact that SN has denied that they will take over the LHR flights (or at least that no decision has been taken yet) would be reason enough for me not to book a ticket (after 10 January) with BD/SN to LHR, but go to BA instead...

[regi]

I have a booking with the last stretch LHR to BRU with BMI after 10th January. My travel agent cannot say yet what will be the rebooking.
This is the second time in a row that my long haul flights are rebooked .
I wonder what that rebooking will mean: cancellation or 10 hours waiting at LHR...

[Wim fan]

Probably a lot of people have a part of their booking on a BD flight after 10/01, including myself.

As mentioned by the press-release, contact travel agent after 2 december will be of more help than contacting the travel agent now. Probably SN's strategy on LHR will be clear by then and my guess is that all the sudden mess won't be that bad.

[tolipanebas]

Probably a lot of people have a part of their booking on a BD flight after 10/01, including myself.

I'd expect there are indeed, since the BD flights to LHR have been particularly popular with people going on a STAR alliance flight to the US.
For Belgians wanting to travel on to the USA on an American STAR alliance airline, there are 2 convenient options: either you take to once daily UA flight to IAD and connect to your final destination at Washington, or you go to LHR first and then have the benefit of a non-stop and often more convenient (multiple times per day) schedule to your final destination. In case people opted for the latter, BD was always the carrier for the first/last leg of the trip, so I can image indeed many people to be affected by BD's snap-decision to halt the route in the middle of the IATA season. Which makes it ever so strange for them to wind down the route on such a sort notice (and contrary to what they'll be doing with AMS, BTW), thus causing serious network disturbances to other STAR alliance partner airlines....
Unless they do have an agreement with SN to take over the route after all (like they have been saying all the time), but SN isn't in a position to announce it yet and thus simply denied it, ignoring the fact doing so would clash with BD's communication with customers on the matter?
Either way, this is definitely NOT a good show both airlines are staging here and this must piss off quite a few of the (future) STAR alliance partners! Can somebody from STAR (or LH) step in and streamline their communcation, please? ASAP!

[cnc]

why would SN lie about something like that?

[Bralo20]

why would SN lie about something like that?

Probably yes...

[tolipanebas]

why would SN lie about something like that?

Who said they did?

As things look to me, it seems SN have unwantedly caused a lot of confusion by not admitting straight out they are indeed going to take over the route to LHR, but rather stating they are still looking into the matter and weighing off all of their options for the time being, whereas BD already has the route swap announced as part of their plan!

Let's be fair, there's no way LH is going to let BD simply loose 6 highly precious slots at LHR (some of which during peak time) in an unilateral move, nor can I see SN not being bothered by them loosing the moring connection to/from LHR with their African operations.

My personal bet is the route will not be taken over on a copy-paste basis by SN and the reshuffle of the time table isn't fully done yet, hence SN being reluctant to announce it. Possibly also because (some) flights are going to remain operated by BD in the future, albeit on behalf of SN, similar to what is done on TXL and GVA, but this isn't sorted out yet with the Unions at SN... (try to explain such a plan to crews which are on economic unemployment!)

Seems like SN was taken off guard here and wanted to remain as vague as possible for the time being, yet by doing so did the absolute worst thing they could: i.e. contradict clearcut communication from BD and cause a lot of confusion with pax of STAR alliance worldwide.

If not, then someone at BD's communication department has just made sure to be amongst those hundreds of people that'll need to leave the company early next year!

[BrightCedars]

I don't think any of the decisions, at least concerning this particular matter, are taken at either BD or SN.

LH put the plan forward probably for all things relating DB, LH, LHi, LX, OS, SN and then probably things went a bit wrong on the local communication and implementation side.

The LHR link is important not so much for O&D traffic (Eurostar rules) but because it is what opens SN's entire network to BD and what puts BRU on the map at a major alliance hub. BD needs to hook into the Continental hubs (BRU, FRA, MUC, MXP, VIE, ZRH) to have a great deal to offer and sure will do so; and SN needs LHR to get (even) better yields and volume on its African network.

I believe the days of the LGW service are counted. It's a BA hub and brings nothing to SN that LHR doesn't.

[RoMax]

LGW wouldn't be dropped, believe me. LGW is an other market in the UK than LHR. Maybe they can drop the evening flight but not the morning flight. This mornig flight is often (always)operated by an B733, they aren't drop this flight for flights to LHR where they have competition of BA. I suppose they will take some of the BD flights to LHR, maybe all and hold the 2 daily flights to LGW.

[Charlie Roy]

LGW wouldn't be dropped, believe me.

Never say never I'd say. It wouldn't surprise me if LH/SN/BMI/British Airways have a bit of behind the scenes collusion (geheime afspraken) going on and have agreed
>>> SN takes over LHR - BRU from BMI
>>> SN drops LGW
>>> British Airways waits a while (so as not to arouse suspicion) and then drops LHR and starts LGW - BRU
The only problem so far with this plan that LH/SN have made a cock up of the BMI/SN aanouncements.

Anyway, never mind my ramblings and conspiracy theories, my point is that LGW-BRU might not be a "safe" SN route.

[RoMax]

BA is/was reducing their flights from LGW and replaced some to LHR, so for me it is a bit strange that they will fly BRU-LGW and drop LHR.

[Established02]

> British Airways waits a while (so as not to arouse suspicion) and then drops LHR and starts LGW - BRU

Charlie Roy, you may want to (re)visit LGW and LHR to observe what is actually going on at those two places.

LGW = easyJet rules

LHR = BA's new Terminal 5

=> BA's destiny is at LHR.

[euroflyer]

Reading all this I am not so sure if it is positive news for SN or not ?? Obviously BMI could not make any money on the LHR-BRU route, otherwise it would not be stopped. So why should SN make money than? OK, they are interested in the connecting pax which they can (hopefully) fly into their hub in BRU from LHR and than on to Africa or other (south) European destinations. But given the quite good connections offered by BA from LHR directly and from many other airlines from LHR via CPH, CDG, FRA, MUC, ZRH, MAD and so on to the rest of the world AND because of the Eurostar competition, will the piece of the cake SN can get really be sooo big?

Another thought crosses my mind, maybe unfair, BUT: any losses BMI makes on the LHR-BRU route at the moment have to be paid by LH 100%, any losses SN will make next year on the route will only be paid by LH with 45% , and such losses ensure the price for the rest of SN does not get to high . Hm, I am not sure as I said, but that might have been one point in LH's calculation as well ... But at least it would be a chance for SN to prove inside the LH family they CAN operate such a route and make profit (hopefully), than that could mean more "jobs" like this for SN in the future.

Regarding BMI the whole operation can still mean different things: EITHER LH really aims at turning around this airline because they want to keep it, and therefore they have to stop the non-profitable routes, ok that is business. OR LH aims at actually closing down BMI or selling it to whoever (BA??), but before this happens they want to secure as many slots at LHR as possible, therefore than some to LX, some to SN and so on.

Anyway, I guess the whole thing will be watched closely by everybody at SN, OS and so on, it shows how fast LH can make changes inside the big company between the different airlines, if one is not competitive enough. So it is indeed a kind of indirect warning as well ...

[BrightCedars]

No way BA will ever drop LHR-BRU, unless there is a whole new mega airport in the UK that is. It's a profitable route that provides a good share of premium traffic onto its global network.

EuroFlyer has a very good point about the share of the cost for LH but that would be a very witty thing to do and would pose some real issues of trust. I think it's not worth the chance.

Soon enough we'll know what happens to this route.

[Conti764]

Anyway, I guess the whole thing will be watched closely by everybody at SN, OS and so on, it shows how fast LH can make changes inside the big company between the different airlines, if one is not competitive enough. So it is indeed a kind of indirect warning as well ...

I think LH realises that it is very hard to make BD a profitable branch in their group, so I wouldn't be surprised if they slowly will dismantle the airline, divide the valuable LHR slots amongst other LH group airlines or sell them to other Star Alliance carriers. The end goal may be to sell what rests of BD or to completeley dismantle the airline.

LH has a stake in BMI since 1999 so probably knows best what can be made of BMI and, more important, what can't be made. The acquisition of LX was a succes, the acquisition of BD was not. It depends on what can be made of SN wether the company will florish, like LX or fade away, like BD.

[tolipanebas]

According to sources from BD, the slots between BRU-LHR will indeed see a transfer to SN, but BD will continue to operate most of the flights under a wetlease agreement, just as I had speculated: only one daily flight would be operated by SN itself. My bet is this will be the morning flight ex-BRU, thus allowing BD to halt the nightstop at BRU.

Let's see how this turns out...

[SN1203]

According to sources from BD, the slots between BRU-LHR will indeed see a transfer to SN, but BD will continue to operate most of the flights under a wetlease agreement, just as I had speculated

You must have good sources then

[airtrotter]

BD will continue to operate most of the flights under a wetlease agreement

anybody an idea if the planes will get the SN livery?
and what BD planes currently fly LHR-BRU, only ERJs or 319 as well?

thx, greetings

[sdbelgium]

and what BD planes currently fly LHR-BRU, only ERJs or 319 as well?

Mostly ERJ's, but today also A319 and even A320.

[regi]

my travel agent told me to stay put untill they inform me after Wednesday - this week.
I am curious.