I am surprised that there are not any discussions about the headline news of yesterday: Sobelair filing for bankruptcy protection (except in the francophone forum https://www.aviation24.be/ftopic2791.html)
This major event will affect the whole Belgian airline industry. Four hundred fifty workers might be losing their jobs. Another Belgian airline might disappear.
Where are you all, in such a terrible time?
As a reminder, here are some of the possible options that were discussed:
1) Take over of one half of the staff and one half of the fleet (2 B767s and 4 B737s) by Birdy Airlines (Victor Hasson and Georges Gutelman), at the condition that the TUI contracts are maintained. SN Brussels Airlines would provide some of the logistics of the new company.
2) Take over by foreign investors (but the bids do not seem to be very serious)
3) Bankruptcy
After TUI jumped in, options 1 and 2 might be forgotten. Does anyone know what TUI is actually offering?
Sobelair filing for bankruptcy protection
Moderator: Latest news team
Sobelair filing for bankruptcy protection
André
ex Sabena #26567
ex Sabena #26567
Well the first proposal sure seems nice, but will it be economically viable?
Now that TUI launches it's belgian airline for short and medium haul services, I think the 737 fleet of Sobelair will be mostly out of work.
They will retain the long haul services for TUI, but shouldn't they then be incorporated in the new TUI Belgium?
Another proposal could be for the "Birdy-Men" to just take over two 767's and fly the Sobelair long-haul with them and in the mean time wet-lease some time to SNBA to open new Asian or American destinations
ciao,
TriStar
Now that TUI launches it's belgian airline for short and medium haul services, I think the 737 fleet of Sobelair will be mostly out of work.
They will retain the long haul services for TUI, but shouldn't they then be incorporated in the new TUI Belgium?
Another proposal could be for the "Birdy-Men" to just take over two 767's and fly the Sobelair long-haul with them and in the mean time wet-lease some time to SNBA to open new Asian or American destinations
ciao,
TriStar
I'm afraid that it is already too late. But our best hope is that most of the staff and aircraft are taken over by the successor.Comet wrote:I can only hope that Sobelair will survive.
Let's face it: TUI can start its own Belgian airline much faster tan expected, and at a lower cost. But they need only the planes used by Sobelair for JetAir customers, not those used for Thomas Cook. That means 4 or maximum 5 planes and less than half of the staff.
The Birdy offer had no chance to succeed from the moment TUI presented its own one, because Birdy could only fly if TUI provided the customers, which they will definitely not do. It's a pity, because Birdy would have taken over 6 or 7 planes (out of 11) and 350 staff out of 450.
sn26567 wrote:I am surprised that there are not any discussions about the headline news of yesterday: Sobelair filing for bankruptcy protection
If some people are wary to comment under their signature, they can send me their input directly by private message, and I will publish it as coming from an anonymous source.
André
ex Sabena #26567
ex Sabena #26567
Well, i don't feel too well placed to comment it, because i missed much of the news lately. I didn't have much time to watch the tv-news and yesterday i just started watching "Terzake", but then someone called me and kept me busy for as long as they were talking about it...
Nevertheless i can't say that i didn't see it coming. The struggle between the management and personnel was so big that nobody really seemed to believe in it anymore. I got the impression that Vastapane didn't want to invest anymore, if all costs didn't go down. And personnel didn't want to get another paycut. I can agree with that from their perspective, but do think what is the worst: working at a lower wage, and meanwhile maybe searching for a better job, and still being paid. Or bancrupcy with all consequences...
That's why i think that the TUI scenario is still one of the best scenarios there is for now. If they don't take over all aircrafts and are only interested in the leased ones (according to news on luchtzak), maybe personnel can then still recover some money from those planes that are left (which was their fear with the Birdy scenario, that they won't have any plane left to sell and pay out personnel).
Hard to comment on this, without stepping on peoples feeth here, but i guess economically seen, it was the best thing to ask for concordat. A company that makes heavy losses for so long can't survive anyway.
Pieter
Nevertheless i can't say that i didn't see it coming. The struggle between the management and personnel was so big that nobody really seemed to believe in it anymore. I got the impression that Vastapane didn't want to invest anymore, if all costs didn't go down. And personnel didn't want to get another paycut. I can agree with that from their perspective, but do think what is the worst: working at a lower wage, and meanwhile maybe searching for a better job, and still being paid. Or bancrupcy with all consequences...
That's why i think that the TUI scenario is still one of the best scenarios there is for now. If they don't take over all aircrafts and are only interested in the leased ones (according to news on luchtzak), maybe personnel can then still recover some money from those planes that are left (which was their fear with the Birdy scenario, that they won't have any plane left to sell and pay out personnel).
Hard to comment on this, without stepping on peoples feeth here, but i guess economically seen, it was the best thing to ask for concordat. A company that makes heavy losses for so long can't survive anyway.
Pieter
I don't really agree with you André. I don't think that TUI wants to start with long haul flights. This means that there could still be a place for Birdy to take over the 2 B767's and operate them with TUI contracts.sn26567 wrote: The Birdy offer had no chance to succeed from the moment TUI presented its own one, because Birdy could only fly if TUI provided the customers
The best thing of course would be that TUI and Birdy colaborate, to save the most jobs, but I fear as you allready mention André, that they won't colaborate for short hall flights.
Regards
Chris
8)
I share your opinion Chris!Avro wrote:I don't really agree with you André. I don't think that TUI wants to start with long haul flights. This means that there could still be a place for Birdy to take over the 2 B767's and operate them with TUI contracts.sn26567 wrote: The Birdy offer had no chance to succeed from the moment TUI presented its own one, because Birdy could only fly if TUI provided the customers
The best thing of course would be that TUI and Birdy colaborate, to save the most jobs, but I fear as you allready mention André, that they won't colaborate for short hall flights.
Regards
Chris
8)
BTW aren't those SLR 767s operating for both TUI/Jetair and Thomas Cook to Caribbean destinations etc...?
OO-VEX
As you all know that the proposal by the Birdy Team comes from the famous company and crew future demolition guys Hasson, Gutelman. If you go back in aviation history and see how many companies lead by them went bankrupt, than i can not at all agree that this is the best proposal. There should be a law to stop these from developping in aviation and to stop play with the future and lives of decent honest working flight x-crew? 
I disagree. Gutelman first made TEA a big success, for many years, before it finally collapsed. Hasson built EBA on the ruins of TEA and sold it with an enormous profit to Richard Branson. CityBird was a failure of the duo, but also after many successful years. And Birdy Airlines cannot be considered as a failure. Altogether, they had more good years and successes than bad years and failures.blue565 wrote:If you go back in aviation history and see how many companies lead by them went bankrupt, than i can not at all agree that this is the best proposal.
André
ex Sabena #26567
ex Sabena #26567
