BRU winter 09-10: latest news, routes, airlines

[HighInTheSky]

As from summer 2010 SN will fly own metal on the BRU-CDG-BRU run, so no more Europe Airpost.

[tolipanebas]

Isn't CDG more slot restricted then ORY and more expensive to operate too? CDG is a great airport for a home carrier, but less for a carrier operating a feeder flight from the Paris region to their own hub.

As you know, SN has access to CDG at the times it wants (i.e. the morning rush hours), so it's a non-issue whether or not CDG is heavily slot restricted (which it isn't BTW). I don't know if you realise, but ORY is not the easiest place to gain access to either, especially not during the morning peak hours.

On top of that, it is a longer flight from BRU and there are no LH/LX/OS flights at ORY, so the single SN flight would be the odd bird out at ORY then and there are hardly any STAR alliance airlines there either, meaning the handling and station costs of such a single flight to ORY will be quite high, just at a time when SN could finally start making use of all the advantages of the LH group of airlines which has facilities almost all over.

Besides, for pax living in Paris, it makes no difference at all whether they have to come to CDG or ORY....

A swap from CDG to ORY would really make no sense at all, IMO.

As from summer 2010 SN will fly own metal on the BRU-CDG-BRU run, so no more Europe Airpost.

That's correct.

It was already planned for this winter season, but apparently the contract with Europe Airpost couldn't be terminated sooner. You'll find the reason in the termination of the contract with Europe Airpost in the fact SN can now operate their single flight to CDG much cheaper than before, now that they can tap from the LH toolbox (handling contracts and facilities at CDG).

[DannyVDB]

Which type of plane would they use on this route: the A319 or the B737?

Regards,
Danny

[brusselsairlinesfan]

WOOOW... a bunch of "booming news" about brussels airlines there :
- the most wanted 5th A330 probably joining the brussels airlines fleet!
- own SN metal on the BRU - CDG route (btw, which aircraft would be flown?)

[HighInTheSky]

Which type of plane would they use on this route: the A319 or the B737?

My best guess is the B737, since this type is already used now (Europe Airpost) and given the fact we only have 4 A319's which are needed on other routes (DME, GVA 1, FRA 1,...)

As stated, this is only a guess, not a fact

[Atlantis]

Singapore Airlines Cargo started a new cargo service to Atlanta via Hong Kong. The return flight is via Brussels and Sharjah

[brusselsairlinesfan]

Given the amount of PAX on the BRU-CDG route, an Avro would be enough isn't it?!

[tolipanebas]

Given the amount of PAX on the BRU-CDG route, an Avro would be enough isn't it?!

Depending the volume of their luggage, it will or will not.

Probably a mixture of types will be deployed to CDG, depending the daily needs, as was done in the past as well.

In this context, it is interesting to note 2 of the oldest 737s will soon leave the fleet: first one to go is 00-VBR in just a few weeks already.

[brusselsairlinesfan]

Oops... does that mean some cuts in the european network? Are these 737-300 or -400?

[sdbelgium]

Oops... does that mean some cuts in the european network? Are these 737-300 or -400?

OO-VBR is a -400. I guess the other will be OO-VEK or VEJ?

[tolipanebas]

Oops... does that mean some cuts in the european network? Are these 737-300 or -400?

STAR alliance membership means many overlaps with other STAR airlines will finally go.

SN has already announced it will no longer serve MUC with its own metal and FRA will be ended too, apart from a single early morning flight which according to some here will also go as from next season, once the slots have been re-arranged. In return LH ends its flights from TXL and HAM to BRU. A win-win for both.

Currently, SN is talking to OS to come to a same sort of arrangement on BRU-VIE and with BMI they are also said to be in the process of re-arranging flights between Belgium and the UK...

I can imagine them to knock on the door of all STAR airlines serving BRU like SAS, LOT and TAP too, so you can be pretty sure SN will be dropping some frequencies to WAW, LIS, OSL, CPH etc over the coming months as negociations are concluded successfully...

There's no benefit from flying half empty planes 3 or 4 times a day at around the same times as your STAR alliance partners, which are also struggling to fill their planes. Better team up and share the work evenly, thus reducing the airlines' operating costs of a destination, while offering more frequencies to that destination than before.

All in all, SN plans to fly more flights this winter than they did last winter, albeit with less planes.
It's definitely a good thing, because it means the fleet utilisation will rise and this was notoriously low last winter: on some of the quieter days in january last year, just over half the medium haul fleet actually flew...

I guess the other will be OO-VEK or VEJ?

OO-VEK if I am not mistaken, but don't hold me to this...

Besides, the 734 is quite a big plane for a network carrier like SN.
It may have been the perfect plane for VEX, but they offered quite low frequencies on their routes.
SN on the other hand offers more frequencies, thus sees less pax per flight, making the 737-400 with its 160+ seats often overkill on a route. Other than on AGP, NCE, BCN in summer, they hardly ever fill more than half the seats on these planes. BCN will be operated on RJ100 this winter for instance.

[brusselsairlinesfan]

tolipanebas, thx again for all your much appreciated info! You are too kind...

[Conti764]

Besides, the 734 is quite a big plane for a network carrier like SN.
It may have been the perfect plane for VEX, but they offered quite low frequencies on their routes.
SN on the other hand offers more frequencies, thus sees less pax per flight, making the 737-400 with its 160+ seats often overkill on a route. Other than on AGP, NCE, BCN in summer, they hardly ever fill more than half the seats on these planes. BCN will be operated on RJ100 this winter for instance.

The average age of the ex VEX-planes probably makes much investments on this fleet not imminent, but wouldn't it be an option to replace some Y-seats up front in the cabin with true C-class seats, making these planes more fit for SN operations? If they could come to a capacity of 140 pax, of which 8 are in true C-class, it would fit them better, wouldn't it?

But then again, given the fact SN is probably going to an all Airbus fleet for their 100+ planes, too much investments in these old VEX birds are probably not in the planning at all.
When SN is going to renew its fleet with 'new' Airbusses and regional jets, are they going to offer true C-class seats or are they going to use the same system they do now on their smallbodies thus having an all Y-class cabin of which the C-class seats have a blocked middle seat?

[tolipanebas]

Concerning the possiblity to upgrade the interior of those 737s:
Do you know it took SN over a year to install a simple water boiler in the front galley of one of its 737, allowing the purser to be able to serve hot drinks in C class easily?
As such, don't expect much investment on these birds: they're leaving.
Besides, taking out some seats reduces the revenue capacity of a plane, but it won't reduce the operating cost: what is too big, remains too big, even when fitted with less seats.

About the dedicated C class seats on medium haul:
I know it is common to have those in the US, but how common is it in the EU?
I don't think many airlines do it actually; certainly LH or LX don't do it, so I woudn't expect SN to do it either.

[b720]

OS does..

SN should aim to be better than LH and LX, if indeed charging 1000 euro C class within europe, SN will need to offer a bit more than a vacant middle seat..

[Kapitein]

SU will be flying again during daytime to BRU.

On days 1-2-4-6 SU235-236 STA: 1210 STD: 1310
On days 3-5-7 SU231-232 STA: 2155 STD: 2235

[Zorba]

SU will be flying again during daytime to BRU.

On days 1-2-4-6 SU235-236 STA: 1210 STD: 1310
On days 3-5-7 SU231-232 STA: 2155 STD: 2235

When was this the case before? It's great to see such nice liveries during daytime.

[Kapitein]

SU will be flying again during daytime to BRU.

On days 1-2-4-6 SU235-236 STA: 1210 STD: 1310
On days 3-5-7 SU231-232 STA: 2155 STD: 2235

When was this the case before? It's great to see such nice liveries during daytime.

They started with the eveningflight on 28/10/01 before this date the SU flights came always at noon.

[euroflyer]

OS does..

(1) We all know how succesful OS has been in the past years

(2) As far as I am aware they only have dedicated C class seats on some planes doing a kind of medium haul flights (Moscow, Cairo ??). On flight from VIE to LHR or FRA or BRU they normally have no C class seats.

(3) It stops an airline to be flexible !! If you install 8 C-class seats you cannot sell more C-class tickets for any flight, even if the demand on certain days and routes might be much higher, this way you loose a lot of money.

[euroflyer]

Oops... does that mean some cuts in the european network? Are these 737-300 or -400?

OO-VBR is a -400

LH has no 737-400's in its fleet ... Only -300s and -500s. And as far as I am aware LX or OS have no -400s either (about bmi I am not sure ...). So I guess it is part of a fleet harmonisation plan as well. In order to reduce maintenance costs and felxibility within the group it is probably clever to have those relatively few -400s leaving the fleet of the big LH family as soon as possible. If SN will have the need for a short and medium haul plane with a higher seating capacity than the -300s or the A319s, than it will be probably easy to bring in a few A320s or A312s, which are already operated by LH, LX, OS and BMI as well.