The future of Brussels Airlines with Lufthansa

[RoMax]

Everyone is talking about SQ but I think that ANA is a more potential airliner to start the first new Asia route (*A route). When they get their 787's, BRU is a perfect airport to serve daily with a 787 from Tokyo-Narita. There is a lot of potential for this route. SQ is more an airline for over a couple of years with A330, 787 of A350. This planes are much better for a route to BRU, with this planes a daily route is possible (at least 5 a week) with a 777 even a -200 is not a daily route possible but more 4 times a week or so.

But I am wondering that SN didn't raise their amount of flights to France, Air France is their big enemy. The flights from France need good connections with the AFI network. LH has a lot of work to do.

[Boeing767copilot]

Air Canada (Star Allaince partner SN) announce the start-up of a direct service from Montréal to Brussels effective 12 June 2010!!!

[tolipanebas]

The route is the first consequence of SN joining STAR alliance soon (other than the obvious LH codeshares), as the route will not only be code-shared back and forth by SN, but also offer onward code-shared connections at both ends!
In Brussels, connecting flights will be available with future Star Alliance partner Brussels Airlines to/from several European and African destinations including:
Toulouse, Lyon and Marseilles,France
Bologna and Milan, Italy
Porto, Portugal
Abidjan, Ivory Coast
Dakar, Senegal
Douala, Cameroun

Definitely a major network boost for SN, and one that isn't going to be liked by AF.
I've been advocating this Montreal route for a long time already as you all know too well!

Too bad SN won't be operating it, but given the fact they are soon part of STAR, it must indeed have made more sense to remain focussed on AFI with the limited resources they have and let the North American and Asian routes to STAR partners, just as I've always maintained would be a good idea...
It is indicative of the direction SN will evolve in, IMHO

Now, how about announcing that 5th A330 for next summer on AFI?

[RoMax]

Air Canada will codeshare on several AFI flights and several European flights. And SN will codeshare on the Montreal route and several Canadian and some US routes. And with this route SN can focus on AFI, and that's what they need to do.

[HighInTheSky]

Very, very good news!

[Conti764]

Everyone is talking about SQ but I think that ANA is a more potential airliner to start the first new Asia route (*A route). When they get their 787's, BRU is a perfect airport to serve daily with a 787 from Tokyo-Narita. There is a lot of potential for this route. SQ is more an airline for over a couple of years with A330, 787 of A350. This planes are much better for a route to BRU, with this planes a daily route is possible (at least 5 a week) with a 777 even a -200 is not a daily route possible but more 4 times a week or so.

You give the answer yourself... If a 777 of any type proves to big for a daily connection to BRU, SQ or any other airline could start with a number of weekly flights so over time they could grow into a daily operation with either 777 (if big enough market) or a 787. If we have to wait untill the 787 (let alone the A350) comes in service, we'll have to wait many years I'm afraid.

I wonder why you mention the A330 and A350 as possibilities since the first one is merely an interim solution to their fleet (they are all leased) and the A350 is a direct competitor to the 777, so if they can fill a 350, they can fill a 777 as well.

[RoMax]

Ok you are right about that A350/777. But the A330 can be a possible plane for now, with their A380's there come some planes free for new routes or fase out the 747 but with the A330 there come absolutly extra capacity for new routes even the A330 is only an intrim solution. It is possible to start flights soon with a 77E or an A330 and later the 787 is a possible plane. But that change nothing on the fact that I think that ANA would start a route earlier than SQ.

[brusselsairlinesfan]

Very good news about Air Canada starting the Brussels-Montreal route next year!
This will undoubtly have positive impact on brussels airlines... even if I wished they could start to send some own metal over N-Atlantic but... wait & see, it will certainly come in the future...

[RoMax]

Yes you say it yourself in the future. In the firt couple of years they need to focus on AFI. Long-haul planes are still a uge investment for SN, when LH gets the ful 100% of SN than they get very easely new planes but now. So with the planes they get, they need to focus on AFI, AFI loves belgian aviation. And they need to feed AFI with their european network (especialy France) and with *A partners first and than they can fly to Boston or so.

[Conti764]

But that change nothing on the fact that I think that ANA would start a route earlier than SQ.

Maybe it will, maybe it won't

ANA will only fly to BRU from Japanese airports which warant a flight since I don't think there is very much connecting traffic between BRU and the Japanese market. I have always been told that NRT was a good market for SN, so this could be an option. But ANA will have to rely on the O&D market and even then, most pax flying to BRU will probably be Japanese tourists, so the yields won't be top of the market I guess.

Singapore however can have much more connecting pax between BRU and SIN with good onwards connections to Oceania and S.E. Asia. With BRU as a 'neutral' airport there probably wasn't much market between the airport and SIN, but with SN becoming a *A member and BRU a *A (mini)hub, things can change.

[RoMax]

Yes you are correct about Singapore, but ANA plans already for years to fly to BRU. When they can work together with SN (for AFI and connections in Europe) this route can work. There are a lot of potential passengers since Sabena doesn't flying to Tokyo anymore.
But this is my opinion, and I like to hear the opinion of others.

[Conti764]

Yes you are correct about Singapore, but ANA plans already for years to fly to BRU. When they can work together with SN (for AFI and connections in Europe) this route can work. There are a lot of potential passengers since Sabena doesn't flying to Tokyo anymore.

So why did they never fly to BRU and just codeshare with SN?

But this is my opinion, and I like to hear the opinion of others.

That's what a forum is for

[RoMax]

Starting a route to BRU is very risky when you can't codeshare, but I think they could easely codeshar with SN but they give the priority to other routes and expanding their network that already exists. But now SN and ANA becom *A partners this route can be something imporant for both SN (connections with asia)and ANA (connections with AFI).

[brusselsairlinesfan]

How did SABENA perform on their former asian & north-american routes (load factors, yields, etc...)?

[RoMax]

I only now that Boston and Montreal where two very good performing routes(good for Air Canada now ). And I supose that Tel Aviv was performing well also, maybe Beirut to. But I thought that Tokyo was a bad route but the ask for that route was growing after the bankrupty of Sabena.

[HighInTheSky]

We often talk about a 5th or 6th A330, but, as most of us know, there aren't much A330's available on the market... So, where can SN still find those much needed A330's?

[Conti764]

We often talk about a 5th or 6th A330, but, as most of us know, there aren't much A330's available on the market... So, where can SN still find those much needed A330's?

For what it's worth since I don't know how reliable a website is that everyone can visit:

http://www.planemart.com/FAA/Listings.a ... l=A330-200

(The first one seems to be the Belgian army 330)

For bigger aircraft (but no 333's available):

http://www.planemart.com/FAA/Listings.a ... l=A340-300

They are not the youngest around, but since SN's 333's are even older...

[BrightCedars]

In SE Asia the obvious best point for hubbing in the framework on Star Alliance would be BKK. Underlying demand is always there, even if the yield is dragged to the low end the breakeven point can't be achieved without this, and it is the best located point to cover the entire region and Oceania. TG needed here.

SIN and SQ are a wonderful combo but it is kind of out of the way already as for as connecting in the region is concerned. It's not as odd to fly BRU-BKK-SIN or BRU-BKK-HKG than doing it via SIN. HKG is said to be a very good potential destination but being CX and oneworld territory, I don't see that happening in the near future.

Japan probably needs to be reconnected to BRU but it is a difficult route because you cannot rely on a hub and spoke model, connections are very marginal. Best would be a 787 service by NH together with SN, geared toward point-to-point travel and broken even thanks to some connecting and some tourist traffic.

I hope SN would (re)start BEY (who doesn't know this by now), but I don't see it happening based on connecting traffic as MEA covers Africa pretty well and with a much better product than SN's. However, I can witness that on any given day there are dozens of people travelling between BRU and BEY and having to connect somewhere on the way. SN could extract a good yield as most connecting tickets have a big proportion of taxes which they would turn into revenue compared to a one-stop service priced for the same total amount. Nonstop would even allow them to extract a reasonable premium on top of that.

[Schep]

Yes you are correct about Singapore, but ANA plans already for years to fly to BRU. When they can work together with SN (for AFI and connections in Europe) this route can work. There are a lot of potential passengers since Sabena doesn't flying to Tokyo anymore.
But this is my opinion, and I like to hear the opinion of others.

And ANA can use TYO as hub in Asia and then propose more destinations from BRU...

[BrightCedars]

A340-300

Could SN have any kind of interest in AC's 343s that are up for sale? They would provide a more than adequate medium term solution to expand the fleet and provide good capacity on some key routes while allowing expansion to further away fields. Let them chat together...