The future of Brussels Airlines with Lufthansa

[Conti764]

Unlike a few other guests on this forum, I am still of the opinion that a second daily nonstop flight to/from ORD is needed for Star Alliance in addition to the current AA (oneworld) flight. I was a bit surprised UA will be trying out an ORD LHR BRU operation and not a nonstop ORD BRU, but maybe that will come later.
To outdo AA (oneworld) and DL (Skyteam), a second NYC flight would probably not be a bad idea ; approximately BRU EWR (in co-operation with CO) 2000 - 2200 hours and back 2355 - 1400 hours.
An evening flight to NYC would certainly attract a considerable numbers of business pax.
And probably last in SN's first move on the transatlantic market would come BOS and maube YUL.
But all the above is already a lot for an airline which currently only has four long haul aircraft.

UA and CO could operate a direct flight to ORD and NYC. Don't know about UA, but CO has 8 outstanding options for 777-200ER's, which even can be (partially) converted to 77W's so they could provide the equipment to fly twice daily EWR-BRU. SN should really focus on Africa with every 'new' equipment which comes in.

[summersso]

Just stumbled across these pics:
http://www.airlinemeals.net/meals/SNBru ... lines.html

Ah... catering in the good old days (just three years ago). I mean they even had tablecloths! Wouldn't it be a dream to that kind of service again?! Although I know that with the frugal Germans in charge that's unlikely...!

[Atlantis]

Imagine SQ at Brussels, i'd love to see a SQ 777 at Brussels.

SQ was flying years ago to BRU with their B747 via ZRH.

[Stij]

Although I know that with the frugal Germans in charge that's unlikely...!

I found catering at LH not that bad at all...

Cheers,

Stij

[Atlantis]

LX, if your figures are correct BruAir must have won the lottery or did you "forgot" the debts?
I know from a credit insurer that BruAir is on their avoid list, so they must have other or more figures than you do!

The figures LX gave are correct. If I'm not wrong they are from "De Rechtbank van Koophandel" and those figures are approved by the board on 14.05.09.
But be aware that those figures are for Brussels Airlines and NOT SNairholding. Two different things but a big difference.

[summersso]

Although I know that with the frugal Germans in charge that's unlikely...!

I found catering at LH not that bad at all...

Cheers,

Stij

I fly them very regularly and its clear they've cut back on catering on short-haul flights in the last few years - a tiny tasteless cheese sandwich with no butter or salad - on BRU-MUC or FRA-CPH etc is not what I call quality catering! And Swiss served me just a small hot sandwich on a flight from IST-ZRH. So I don't expect a real improvement on SN.

In fairness to LH, they seem to be the only airline in Europe making a profit...

[Atlantis]

I think that we are all agree that Africa is THE important market for SN. It was in the past, now and in the future.
Forget about NYC, SIN, etc, etc. Let the big boys fly those routes to BRU. But, what they maybe can consider is a daily flight to YUL.

What I was thinking. Is it not possible, in future of course, to open a second long haul wave in the evening to Africa? The morning is now congested. What if CO consider to open a second daily flight. It will arrive late afternoon. The same for SQ, EK, ANA, Thai, etc. They all arrive late afternoon and could fill the Africa flights.

And not only for Africa. *Alliance is the most present alliance at BRU airport. They connect with the other European flights.

[Air Key West]

I think a second daily flight from NYC would arrive in early afternoon (2 pm) and not late afternoon. If the mornings are congested in the B pier, the alternative is the construction of a new terminal iso the controversial LCC terminal where, I think, there would be space for a terminal which could accommodate at least some eight long haul aircraft. What most of us would probably prefer, is a new Star Alliance terminal, but where should they build it ?
And I think SN/LH will want the Africa flights to continue to arrive and leave in the morning because of the connections to the US.

[Atlantis]

I think a second daily flight from NYC would arrive in early afternoon (2 pm) and not late afternoon. If the mornings are congested in the B pier, the alternative is the construction of a new terminal iso the controversial LCC terminal where, I think, there would be space for a terminal which could accommodate at least some eight long haul aircraft. What most of us would probably prefer, is a new Star Alliance terminal, but where should they build it ?

The plans for a *alliance terminal exists already some years. See the other topic we have about this specific item.

A new terminal is not necessary. There is room enough to rebuild one of the two piers.
BRU has now 17 million pax while the airport can handle 30 million pax.

[Air Key West]

OK, thanks, but what do you mean by "rebuild one of the two piers " ?

[Atlantis]

OK, thanks, but what do you mean by "rebuild one of the two piers " ?

Rebuild was not the right word for it. The A pier is very modern and well equiped and could be enlarged. Only the B pier needs a more modern look but they are working on it at this time.

[fcw]

LX, if your figures are correct BruAir must have won the lottery or did you "forgot" the debts?
I know from a credit insurer that BruAir is on their avoid list, so they must have other or more figures than you do!

The figures LX gave are correct. If I'm not wrong they are from "De Rechtbank van Koophandel" and those figures are approved by the board on 14.05.09.
But be aware that those figures are for Brussels Airlines and NOT SNairholding. Two different things but a big difference.

If these figures are correct and there isn't a big debt on the other side, WHY would you sell 45% for 65 mio€???

[BrightCedars]

I believe there is a concensus around the idea that SN's strategic strength lies in the Africa market.

African members of Star Alliance: EgyptAir (MS) & South African Airways (SA)

So taking this into consideration, what are the steps you think would be implemented rapidly to increase coverage of the Dark Continent in the shortest time possible? A few options:

• SN and MS start cooperating on CAI to create traffic flows based on through traffic via CAI to some destinations in Eastern Africa. We might even see SN metal in CAI.

• SN and SA start cooperating on South Africa, via codeshare with transit in Europe or Africa. I can see SN's code on flights to JNB and CPT, but I don't see SN metal that far South in the medium term.

• SN and ET (not a member of Star Alliance, but said to be leaning towards this alliance) further increase their cooperation.

The aim would obviously be to dramatically increase the number of dots on the Continent, increase the frequency, and stave off competition from growing players such as RAM and Afriqiyah, while containing the threat posed by Air France-KLM.

As far as hardware is concerned, I beg to differ. I believe that SN doesn't need the largest aircraft there is out there. A350's will be rather large in size and do not computer with a high frequency programme as the traffic remains light on many of the routes and potential routes. B787-8 seems to be a potential winner here, now of course I reckon it may be difficult to obtain in a reasonable delay and ownership may be a choice limiting factor. The second best option is then the A330-200.

Share your opinion!

[BrightCedars]

If these figures are correct and there isn't a big debt on the other side, WHY would you sell 45% for 65 mio€???

I think we all realize that considerable investment will be the key to the future success of SN, and that money isn't coming from the previous owners but will be committed by Lufthansa.

[sn26567]

Imagine SQ at Brussels, i'd love to see a SQ 777 at Brussels.

SQ was flying years ago to BRU with their B747 via ZRH.

Earlier SQ was flying SIN-BRU-JFK by B747 (with full traffic rights on all segments) and later SIN-BRU-MAN also by B747.

[Air Key West]

I got an email from CO today saying : "This fall, Continental will join Star Alliance and also begin to cooperate closely with United Airlines, linking our networks and services worldwide to deliver new benefits to our customers".
So, we can hope that CO (and UA) will also begin to cooperate with SN and link their networks and services worldwide to deliver new benefits to customers.

[BrightCedars]

Imagine SQ at Brussels, i'd love to see a SQ 777 at Brussels.

SQ was flying years ago to BRU with their B747 via ZRH.

Earlier SQ was flying SIN-BRU-JFK by B747 (with full traffic rights on all segments) and later SIN-BRU-MAN also by B747.

I myself flew SQ BRU-ZRH-SIN, SIN-CDG-BRU and BRU-MAN, all on 744. It existed, it was great, I'm waiting for it to be back.

Does someone know if SQ closed or moved their downtown office, I don't think I see the SQ bird sign anymore.

[kiwiandrew]

Does someone know if SQ closed or moved their downtown office, I don't think I see the SQ bird sign anymore.

I just did a search on SQ website for their offices - when I select Brussels from the dropdown box it gives me the address of the SQ office at Schiphol ! So unless it is a glitch on their website I assume that they have shut the Brussels office .

I know that TG still have their Brussels office on Avenue Toison d'Or/Guldenvlieslaan , I walked past it nearly every day for more than 3 years ( at least they still did in January this year when I left Belgium .)

[itami]

Does someone know if SQ closed or moved their downtown office, I don't think I see the SQ bird sign anymore.

I just did a search on SQ website for their offices - when I select Brussels from the dropdown box it gives me the address of the SQ office at Schiphol ! So unless it is a glitch on their website I assume that they have shut the Brussels office .

I know that TG still have their Brussels office on Avenue Toison d'Or/Guldenvlieslaan , I walked past it nearly every day for more than 3 years ( at least they still did in January this year when I left Belgium .)

Doesn't look very promising to see SQ flights at BRU soon.

[Airbus A330]

Didn't SQ close it's Brussels' office in June 2003 ?