SN A330 goes tech in DKR

[Air Key West]

http://www.standaard.be/Artikel/Detail. ... 082009_032
http://www.lalibre.be/actu/belgique/art ... dakar.html

Am I too pessimistic or do b.air's A330s really have technical problems too often ?

[sn26567]

As the spokesman of Brussels Airlines mentioned, operating conditions in Africa are not the same as elsewhere in the world...

See also this thread.

[SN1203]

Am I too pessimistic or do b.air's A330s really have technical problems too often ?

Could you please be so kind to share Brussels Airlines' dispatch reliability figures with us, and compare them to the average dispatch reliability of other A330 operators? As this is the kind of info you need to draw such a conclusion...

If not, do not come up with this kind of "statements".

PS: according to the press article, the technical problem can be fixed in 2hrs. If this would have happened at BRU or at any other major Western airport, nobody would have noticed the delay. This is the kind of risk factor any airline has when operating to airports with less infrastructure.

[Air Key West]

Sn1203, I have not made any statement. I have just asked a question and am getting answers back. However, you will probably know that SN's A330s have also experienced problems not only out of Africa, but also ex BRU ? My question was just : is this normal ? Do other airlines have the same technical problems with their aircraft at the same frequency ? Maybe nobody has data which can make comparisons possible. Perhaps someone will say : the frequency of the technical problems is quite normal ; we notice them perhaps more because b.air has less replacement capacity than other airlines. Just asking a question and trying to get answers back. No need to become agressive.

[LX-LGX]

SN1203, I have not made any statement.

Yes, you have : you've said: "...Am I too pessimistic or do b.air's A330s really have technical problems too often?"

It's not because you have put a question mark behind that statement that it's only a question. Therefore, please reply to SN1203, and give us the details about what you say "frequency of technical problems on Brussels Airlines' A330's". And if you can't, please don't suggest that they break down frequently. Because they don't.

[Air Key West]

Apparently, LX-LGX and SN1203 need to go back to school to learn the basic difference between a statement and a question. A ten-year-old child would know it.
And by the way, LX-LGX, if the delayed flight is only back in BRU tomorrow around 1030 am, it probably means it takes more than two hours to repair the problem after the technicians arrived in DKR.
But since this thread is only sparking agressive reactions, I suggest to the webmaster or his replacement to close it if nobody can react or answer in a normal way.
Other forum members can get additional info on ABNORMALITIES AT BRU and make up their own minds and draw their own conclusions from some members agressiveness.

[LX-LGX]

Apparently, LX-LGX and SN1203 need to go back to school to learn the basic difference between a statement and a question.

OK? let me try again. SN1203 asked you this question: "Could you please be so kind to share Brussels Airlines' dispatch reliability figures with us, and compare them to the average dispatch reliability of other A330 operators?"

Other forum members can get additional info on ABNORMALITIES AT BRU and make up their own minds and draw their own conclusions from some members agressiveness.

If you would also check that topic "Abnormalities at BRU", you would have seen that there were posts about the delay of this Dakar SN204 about 5 hours before you opened a new topic about this delay.

[JM]

I agree with Air Key West. Please close topic.

Thank you,
Greetz,
JM

[SN1203]

And by the way, LX-LGX, if the delayed flight is only back in BRU tomorrow around 1030 am, it probably means it takes more than two hours to repair the problem after the technicians arrived in DKR.

Again an unnecessary conclusion... if you look at brusselsairport.be, you'll notice that SN1206 is inbound from Dakar AND Conakry, which means that the aircraft has to make an additional stop at Conakry to pick up passengers. This shows once again that you need to pay attention & check your facts before you post something.

I am absolutely not being agressive, just asking you to back up your statements. I'd even say that you're the one reacting in an agressive way.

And I invite you to contact me privately if there's anything you'd like to discuss.

[Air Key West]

LX-LGX, I cannot provide any dispatch figures and this is why I asked the QUESTION I asked. But this is something simple you don't seem to understand.
Is everybody of the webteam on holidays ? If not, close my thread, please. I don't want to go round in circles if nobody really cannot answer my question. Even LX-LGX cannot provide comparative dispatch figures. So all of this is getting pointless.

[Air Key West]

Totally off topic for those who think I don't like b.air at all : I flew to NBO with them in February, in C class.
Both flights on time. Excellent food and wines. Good cabin crew on the outward journey. Excellent cabin crew on the flight back to Brussels. I would definitely recommend SN to Africa.
And now the webmaster can close this thread on a happy note.

[LX-LGX]

LX-LGX, I cannot provide any dispatch figures and this is why I asked the QUESTION I asked... Even LX-LGX cannot provide comparative dispatch figures...

Why should this topic be closed? Because you cannot proof your own statement, posted as a question?

Online Performance: SN204 has an on-time performance of 86%. Statistically, when controlling for sample size, this flight has on-time performance characteristics better than 78% of other flights.

Overall Rating: SN204 has on-time performance characteristics better than 75% of all other flights in the FlightStats database.

Delay Performance: SN204 has an average delay of 11.0 minutes with a standard deviation of 7,23 minutes. Statistically, when controlling for sample size, standard deviation, and mean, SN204 has delay performance characteristics better than 75% of other flights.

(Source: Flightstats, indeed)

[Cartman]

As a neutral reader of this forum, I can only say that Key West was asking a question, and that responses were a bit emotional. No harm there since we're all aviation enthousiast, but no reason to start yelling at each other as well.

The fleet size, which will be SN's biggest challenge for the future, does not permit swift action in these circumstances. But maybe with LH's help, improvement will come. There are ample subjects on this forum for this discussion though.

Concerning today's delay: sending a few tech guys to DKR takes some time. No matter if the problem is solved in an hour or two, flying there already gives a few (6?) hours extra delay. Unfortunately, this is the real life situation on the African continent since facilities there are limited and maybe not so well developed as in BRU where SN Technics would have solved the breakdown in a jiffy

Let's stay friendly to each other, and let's hope SN's renewed fleet (whatever it may consist of) will give us a reason to chant together "this is a great company"

[BrightCedars]

A few questions and statements, I hope they won't be seen as fire accelerators but rather grounds for debate:

- What aircraft is involved, is it the ex-Air Madrid one?
- Was the problem declared minor at BRU if there was a sign at all on the going leg and the aircraft let go to be stranded in DKR?

With a fleet of 4 problems are bound to happen and have a ripple effect on the entire operation. If SN thought it needed they would have dispatched another jet, changed routes for other flights, or asked LH to provide a spare.

Today's A330s are notably more reliable and better performing that the initial ones which SN has, it's an accepted industry fact. Statistically SQ is bound to have less trouble with it's fresh builds A330s than SN with theirs.

Africa is not Europe indeed but there are multiple daily operations from European hubs to Africa destinations every single day of the year by many players. Maybe they could set a shared shop somewhere in West Africa to help with that kind of trouble. Don't tell me Dakar can be compared to Harare either. Also, when you extract a premium from passengers for those destinations - which SN certainly do - compared to flying on much more competitive markets e.g. trans-Atlantic, you kind of imply that you will provide a similar trouble free technical experience because of that premium.

As far as the spokesman bragging about accomodating passengers, as an EU airline and flying to the EU in this case, SN is obliged by law to accomodate/re-route/refund, it's not a matter of a goodwill gesture.

[BrightCedars]

- What aircraft is involved, is it the ex-Air Madrid one?

If I trust a thread on airliners.net and the data on airfleets.net, it's OO-SFN, not the former Air Madrid one.

[sdbelgium]

A few questions and statements, I hope they won't be seen as fire accelerators but rather grounds for debate:

- What aircraft is involved, is it the ex-Air Madrid one?

AFAIK It was OO-SFN, which is not ex-Air Madrid, but ex-Air Inter, ex-Sabena and all successors.

[sn26567]

Is everybody of the webteam on holidays ? If not, close my thread, please.

No, I am not on holiday (or rather I am always on holiday since I am retired since January). But I am also the only active member of the latest news web team, and I am not connected 24 hrs a day. But I try to check the news forums at least once a day.

However, I see no need to close this thread, which is informative about the hazards of operating a route to Africa. The only request that I would like to formulate to all readers is to remain polite and to avoid aggressiveness. I hope that this will close all arguments. Back to the topic now!

P.S. As mentioned in my reply above, I am almost alone to moderate the news forums. Any candidate moderator may contact me: help would be highly appreciated.

[NCB]

Perhaps less wildlife control makes for more difficult operating conditions?
I don't know, SN's one-stop operation also involves an extra landing, if that is anything that could cause more AOG's?

I think the biggest factor is fleet age.
SN have the oldest fleet of A330's, which are closing on to the sunsets of their lives.
SN can't afford new planes, so they have to cope with higher maintenance cost, AOG's, etc...
In the end, it should save them some beans or else they would have ordered new equipment long time ago.
And yes, bean-counting is all airlines are about... aviation is one of the leas t profitable businesses out there.

[regi]

I was greatly surpirsed about the aggressive reaction on a question - even if it is a rethorical one.
A sentence ending with a question mark is still a question.

So now I go further: if somebody reacts so heavely on a question, feeling some criticism , I am curious why he feels so criticised ?

So, it is not Air Key West anymore who has to answer the question, but it is LX-LGX who has to answer why he can not stand soft criticism, hidden in a rethorical question.

We are waiting LX-LGX. Let us know why you cannot stand criticism on SN.
You are already in the minority: I count at least 3 members who are ( a bitcovered ) interested in your knowledge.

[FlyA330]

I dont think you can compare the dispatch reliability of Bru.Airlines with other operators. First of all, the A330's of Bru.Airlines or not the newest ones (in fact one of the first build-serial below 50's) Second, these A330's are only used for flights to Africa where runways are not of the best quality (Kinshasa is the worst!!) and without taxiways at the end of the runway. This means the aircraft needs to make a "180" turn most of the time and this is not good at all for the landing gear. The tosion of the main landing gear is icredible to see.
It's normal that these A330's needs more maintenance and that they can break down more frequently than with other operators. Other operators are flying their A330's to a bigger variety of "modern" airports.