MY AIR (8I) went bankrupt

[secondlife]

One more very successful airline went bankrupt today. On the airline web site http://www.myair.com is stated that the italian CAA - Enac retired the AOC (airline operator certificate) of My Air and the booking system is off.

The interior rumors speaks about two others airlines, very close to bankrupcy. The first is Sky Europe, actualy under protection and the second one is Wizzair, who is constantly hiding its very bed financial results in order to avoid passengers panic, but soon it will be one of the biggest surprise for the industry...

[LX-LGX]

Their AOC is suspended (not withdrawn) as from Thursday 23 July 2009, 00h01.

http://www.corriere.it/economia/09_lugl ... aabc.shtml

[muggins]

Hi secondlife,

Interesting post. Thanks for sharing that information.

SkyEurope floated on the stock market, so they have to publish their results. It has been clear for a long time that they have never been profitable and therefore it is only a matter of time before they go bankrupt. As you say, they are now under bankruptcy protection whilst they try to restructure and find more investment. SkyEurope are amazing survivors. Somehow without ever having made a single cent of profit they have managed to keep flying so far. For how much longer?

Wizzair on the other hand is privately owned and financed, so they don't have to publish their results. They have gained from SkyEurope's withdrawal from Krakow and Budapest and are now attacking SkyEurope in Prague and most recently with a new route to Bratislava. Wizzair have reacted very quickly to the demise of MyAir by launching 3 new routes from Bucharest to Italy. Is this because they are desperate? You are right, if Wizzair do go under, it would be a very big surprise because so far they have managed to cover up any signs of trouble. They recently ordered a large number of new Airbus aircraft. Did Airbus check the financial health of Wizzair?

Do you have any more details that you can share? Is it possible that the rumours were started by competitors in order to damage these airlines?

[Ozzie1969]

One more very successful airline went bankrupt today.

I take it you were being sarcastic when you wrote this?

[RCMike]

in Brussels it did quite well...

[thienhuong]

Hi everbybody,

I am a new member of this forum and a recent victim of Myair bankcrupcy. The matter is on 13 Jul 09 I booked on-line 4 tickets for my relatives to flight from Barcelona to Venice on 31 Jul 09. They sent me a confirmation, charged my visa card. On that day, as we showed up in the Barcelona Airport (on our way from Mallorca to Italy(), we learnt that the company has gone bankrupt and does not operate anymore. We were totally shocked as we were kind of running out of money to buy new tickets with other airlines (they are extremely expensive at the last minute), let alone the fact that we had to find an accomodation to stay overnight on that night. One member in the group is my grandma and she is over 70. She has almost collapsed with the news. Luckily, with the help of my friends and a great deal of luck, we now managed to get out of Barca, but this costed us more than a thousand euros extra.

I am writing this now to ask for your kind advice whether we can consider this act of Myair a fraud, a cheating act? They charged my card, they sent me a confirmation ticket, yet they had no line of an information about the disapperance of the flight (I assume they could have at least informed us duly by e-mail about their bancrupcy and hence the cancellation/removal of the booked flight). They acted with such a disgusting irresponsibility. We were not the only victims of this. A few other people were in the same situation and they claimed this is a fraudulous act. They adviced us to sue Myair to court, which I think is very fair, but I don't know how I can do this.

Actually, 2 things I would like to do now regarding this shameless act of Myair: 1/ Get my money that I paid them for the Barca-Venice tickets back (its around 500 Euro); 2/ Get them answer for the consequences that we had to bear at the airport that resulted from their irresponsible act (of not having let us know their situation/cancelation); and 3/ Sue them to court for their fraudulous act.

I would appreciate very much if you could advice me whether my above wishes are realistic and how I can accomplish them. Please help me fight for justice. Thank you very much in advance.

[LX-LGX]

thienhuong,

I suggest you do two things:

1. contact your credit card company asap and tell them (by mail, followed by registered letter) that you suspect fraud for that payment to May Air, and that you ask them to withhold the payment to them. Once that is done, you could eventually file a fraud complaint with your local police station. However, prepare that complaint in written before you go to that police office. And don't expect too much from it.

2. The AOC (license) from My Air has been withdrawn by the Italian CAA, but My Air is not bankrupt yet (if someone knows for sure they are bankrupt meanwhile, please correct). Therefore, EU-Regulation 261/2004 still complies. My Air should have paid you back within 7 days after the cancellation, and because the cancellation is caused by their failure to comply to the Italian law, Article 7 from 261/2004 applies. For flights less then 1.500 kms, an airline must pay 250 euro indemnity per flight (and per person) if the cancellation is done within 14 days before the flight date. Contact the "National Enforcement Body" for EU-Regulation 261/2004 in your country: you will find the address in the link below. Tell them that My Air failed to refund you within the 7 days, and that they also failed to pay you the indemnity of 250 euro per person, as stated in Article 7 from 261/2004. Put all details in your mail to the N.E.Body (date of booking, date of flight, names, PNR / confirmation number, contact person, date of payment, etc.).

http://ec.europa.eu/transport/passengers/air/air_en.htm

However, My Air will probably not be able to pay you, as their banks will probably have blocked all bank accounts. But if some day My Air starts up again, your complaint has been officially noted by the European aviation authorities. Meaning: they will have to refund you, and pay the indemnity. Repeat: only IF they start up again. If they are declared bankrupt, forget about all this.

Only bookings, done by them after the withdrawal of their AOC will be seen as fraude by the Italian justice.

[sn26567]

I have read somewhere that Alitalia is offering special conditions for people with MyAir tickets. I think it would be worth calling an Alitalia office if you still have MyAir tickets.

[sdbelgium]

No, the offer was only until the 28th of July.

[thienhuong]

thienhuong,

I suggest you do two things:
......
Only bookings, done by them after the withdrawal of their AOC will be seen as fraude by the Italian justice.

Thanks everybody for your prompt sharing and advice. Particular thanks to LX-LGX for your very detailed advice on the steps which I certainly will follow and keep you all closely informed of its results and solicit your advice when/if needed.

I currently reside in Germany, but I am not a German by nationality. I hold a Vietnamese passport and I am here to accompany my husband who works at the Vietnamese Embassy for 3 years (until Jul 2010). Pls. advice whether I should file a complaint to the German police in Berlin?

In any case I will draft the complaint and post it here for your comment/ advice before officially sending it to the related authorities. Actually, even now that the money has been lost and it's highly uncertain that I could get it back, what disappoints me most is not the lost money, but the shameless and irresponsible behaviour of Myair. I assume it takes them really nothing to just send me a mail to notify me of their situation and its consequence on our flight so that we could have taken some action before hand. It was really a horrible situation when one gets to the airport far away from home (we were in the middle of our way from Mallorca to Venice with a transit in Barca) and gets informed that their flight will never happen!

Again, I thank you all and look forward to hearing your further advice.

Thien Huong

[chornedsnorkack]

However, My Air will probably not be able to pay you, as their banks will probably have blocked all bank accounts. But if some day My Air starts up again, your complaint has been officially noted by the European aviation authorities. Meaning: they will have to refund you, and pay the indemnity. Repeat: only IF they start up again. If they are declared bankrupt, forget about all this.

If Myair is declared bankrupt, are the passengers holding dishonoured tickets treated as creditors, invited to creditor meetings etc., and eventually paid a part of both ticket price refund and compensation, out of the proceeds of bankruptcy?

[LX-LGX]

yes, chornedsnorkack, if My Air goes bankrupt, passengers can ask the Italian liquidator to be put on the debtors list. However, the return on investment will be zero. Time, stamps, paper and electricity used to send mails will cost you more then you will ever get from the liquidator. Because after the Italian tax guys, all lessors, all staff and all banks have been paid out, there won't be much more left for the others. Airports, fuel suppliers, publicity agencies, their IT-company, ... What's in the bankruptcy that is worth something? Slots - no. Aircraft - no. Office furniture: probably (unless the computers were leased). Let's say that the liquidator will be able to realize 3% of the total debts from these non preferential suppliers: you will then also recieve 3% of your ticket value.

- - -

Thien, 261/2004 is a consumer protection law, and it doesn't matter which nationality you have: it applies to all outgoing flights from a EU-country, and all incoming flights into EU from a EU member state. Where to file the 261/2004 complaint? For a flight out of Barcelona: Spain's National Enforcement Body. Unless you can proof that you've have booked through the German site from My Air: then it's the German N.E.B.

Read this story: it will explain you that the EU takes complaints serious:
http://www.ombudsman.europa.eu/press/re ... l.bookmark

the complaint against fraud is only necessary if My Air has sold tickets after their AOC has been suspended, but I don't think they've done this: when Italy's CAA has grounded them, they had immediately published this on their website. However, could be that the credit card company asks you to file a complaint for fraud, in order to withhold the payment.

[secondlife]

One more very successful airline went bankrupt today. On the airline web site http://www.myair.com is stated that the italian CAA - Enac retired the AOC (airline operator certificate) of My Air and the booking system is off.

The interior rumors speaks about two others airlines, very close to bankrupcy. The first is Sky Europe, actualy under protection and the second one is Wizzair, who is constantly hiding its very bed financial results in order to avoid passengers panic, but soon it will be one of the biggest surprise for the industry...

Skyeurope declare the bancruptcy ... Wizzair follows:

skyeurope website state:
Please be advised that SkyEurope has suspended its sales and operations immediately.

Those of you who have purchased flights with a credit card, please turn to your credit card issuing bank to seek refunds for unused portions of SkyEurope's flights.

In case you have paid directly to SkyEurope in other means than credit card (e.g. bank transfer, cash), please be advised that a refund may not be possible.

If you have ordered your flight tickets via a travel agency or organizer, you should discuss the matter with them first.

If you are already at the destination or have rented a car through SkyEurope's business partner, you may stay at the hotel and use the vehicle during the period originally agreed. You must, however, order a return flight from some other airline at your own expense.

You may also wish to contact your insurance provider to seek further guidance and support.

We regret for the inconvenience that have been caused to you.

[regi]

Why do you think Wizzair will follow ?

[fretn]

Wizzair won't fail, surely not at this time.
They even placed on order with airbus for expansion plans.
Plus now that sky europe is out of the way, they will have less competition in central-europe.
plus it would only leave ryanair then as a major low cost...

[cristiqs]

Wizzair won't fail, surely not at this time.
They even placed on order with airbus for expansion plans.
Plus now that sky europe is out of the way, they will have less competition in central-europe.
plus it would only leave ryanair then as a major low cost...

MyAir had an order of 15CRJ's

In an interview recently somebody from Wizz said they are on profit, even the tough conditions and small prices they have. hum... kind of hard to believe it anyway! Do Wizz publish financial results?

To me, Wizz is to become a second Ryanair.

[luckyme]

Wizz have never been profitable. They rely on taking delivery of new A320s and immediately selling them (sale and leaseback) to usually GECAS (same idea and leasing company which SkyEurope used). Great short term stategy but needs constant deliveries hence bulk Airbus orders.

They have virtually zero assets but use the profits raised from selling their aircraft to fund day to day operations. The plan was to float the shares on a European stock market and make a profit for the shareholders (Indigo Partners) but the fiancianal crisis has delayed that. Wizz is worthless at the moment. Notice how they always decline to publish or talk about their finances other than very vaguely!

Indigo Partners also own or control large parts of Spirit Airlines USA, Mandala Indonesia, Tiger Singapore and the new Avianova Russia amongst others. Chairman David Bonderman is also chairman of Ryanair which runs a very different business model in that Ryanair actually owns its aircraft and makes a profit. Also note the absence of overlapping routes to give Wizz a head start - which won't last forever. It also distorts the market when there is an airline which never makes money as it also affects the genuine carriers negatively.

The difference between Wizz and skyeurope is rich and patient parents (for now) otherwise they are very similar

[Boeing767copilot]

Very interesting article on: http://www.centreforaviation.com/news/2 ... ense/page1

Ownership: Both Ryanair and Wizz Air have associations with private equity investment firm, Texas Pacific Group (TPG). TPG has an ownership interest in Ryanair, with TPG co-founder, David Bonderman, Chairman of the Ryanair Holdings and Limited Board since Dec-1996. Wizz Air’s major investor is Indigo Partners, a US private equity group with loose affiliations to TPG (along with equity interests and a big say in LCCs, Tiger Airways (Singapore and Australia), Mandala (Indonesia) and Spirit (US), all of which operate A320 equipment;
Aggressive cost focus: The operating structure of Wizz Air and Ryanair is relatively similar, with Wizz Air nicknamed the ‘Ryanair of Eastern Europe’ due to their structural similarities. For example, both carriers operate to secondary airports and follow a very cost-disciplined, no frills approach to maintain a low cost base. With its longer average stage length, Wizz outstrips Ryanair’s aircraft utilisation, achieving an extremely creditable 13 hours a day;
Quick to react to capacity cuts by competitors: Both Wizz Air and Ryanair are dynamic and flexible in their network planning, with both carriers’ reacting quickly to market developments. For example, Ryanair has focused much of its growth for 2009 in the Italian market, following cutbacks by Alitalia, while Wizz Air is planning to encroach on SkyEurope territory on the back of their recent move to ‘creditor protection’ and is playing on CSA Czech Airlines’ current uncertainty, launching its Prague base last month;
Growth focus: Wizz Air and Ryanair both have significant fleet expansion plans. Ryanair currently has 116 B737-800s on order and Wizz Air orders for 66 A320s. Both carriers are also among the fastest growing LCCs in Europe, each with double digit growth rates (although Ryanair, which has been operating for 19 years longer than Wizz Air, currently transports ten times the number of passengers).