IMPORTANT message: Brussels Airport

[tolipanebas]

Excuse me?

Are you calling for public censorship????

We are living in an open and free society here, where it is everybody's irrevocable right to talk about what he thinks, knows, feels or believes! It a constitutional right to speak freely and nobody's economic interests can come before that. PERIOD.

If I happen to know something about an airline or an airport, I have the right to post it, even if that airline or airport doesn't like me posting it before they do.

I suggest you don't get carried away by internal memo's from BAC's (or some airlines') spin doctors who feel the regular obligation to point out the staff of their companies that public forums seriously harm their carefully staged PR shows. Remember they definitely have the right to try to win the harts and minds, but remember our constitution gives you the right to speak your mind and nobody can take that away from you for as long as you haven't personally signed up to some sort of a personal confidenciality contract, although I know some companies at BRU often refer to general company rules and policies in which they impose secrecy and forbid company staff from speeking with the press. It doesn't matter though: these clauses are against the law as they unilaterally limit your constitutional rights, something which they can not do, especially not since they are misusing their position as your employer. 100% illegal! Only YOU can decide to renounce to your rights, so if you haven't signed any contract, you are not bound by any of their rules they try to impose upon you! Don't be intimidated!

[teddybAIR]

tolipanebas,

you are largely right, unless we are talking about confidential information where you had to sign a non-disclosure agreement (NDA - standard practise in my business)...if you don't have such a document...well apparently you are leaving it up to faith wether things will be discovered or not.

In large companies such as BA I would opt to keep sensitive projects confined to the management team and only informing the rest of the company by means of an official statement that is timed a few minutes before a press release. Why? If you inform a large group of employees earlier, someone is always bound to disclose sensitive information and in a 1000+ employees company it is almost unfeasable to have everybody signing an NDA.

Best regards,
Tom

[Megaman]

What is the confidential information we're talking about???

[teddybAIR]

Megaman,

Hilarious: What a question, man!

[tolipanebas]

tolipanebas,

you are largely right, unless we are talking about confidential information where you had to sign a non-disclosure agreement (NDA - standard practise in my business)...if you don't have such a document...well apparently you are leaving it up to faith wether things will be discovered or not.

In large companies such as BA I would opt to keep sensitive projects confined to the management team and only informing the rest of the company by means of an official statement that is timed a few minutes before a press release. Why? If you inform a large group of employees earlier, someone is always bound to disclose sensitive information and in a 1000+ employees company it is almost unfeasable to have everybody signing an NDA.

Best regards,
Tom

If you've signed a Non-Disclosure Agreement, then you're bound by it. Period.
If you haven't, then you aren't, even if you have found out about something while on the job and even if the company has a 'confidenciality policy' which forbids staff from talking to the press or posting on public forums (like BA). Those 'corporate governance policies' are in fact illegal as they unilaterally limit your constitutional right to free speech.

I fully agree with you. if something is really that sensitive that it may not prematurely leak, then make sure nobody but a handful of people do know about it! Otherwise, just accept strong rumours and insider information will always precurse the official press release these days. Also, don't be pissed if some smart guy/girl happens to be able to add one and one together from what he sees while doing his job and gets the picture of what is kept secret for the time being. Be flattered this guy is working for you, because he could as well work for the competition, and then what?

[teddybAIR]

Tolipanebas, fully agree!

[Megaman]

I might be hilarious, I'm still interested in knowing what this is all about. It's not the first time that scenarios have been discussed on this forum (Jet airways expansion, Cargo B, Brussels airlines Merger, Sn brussels new name, ...). It's the companies problem to make sure information remains confidential. Punishing forums afterwards because the company couldn't keep the managament in line, is strange. Of course if the moderator works for BRU, I guess I can understand his fears...

[fcw]

Here it is Megaman, but don't say anything to anybody...
Rumour has it that Bru Airport is talking with MOLE about moving the FR operations from CRL to the new LCT in BRU.

[Vinnie-Winnie]

I'm sorry it is up to Brussels Airport to clean its own house, not up to moderators or enthusiast to shut their mouth simply cause BRU airport has said so.

If BRU airport is serious about keeping some news confidential then it better starts an internal investigation about who is leaking the information...

Can't believe you even had the guts to post such a thing Atlantis. You may have been asked to but still!!!

[teddybAIR]

Can't believe you even had the guts to post such a thing Atlantis. You may have been asked to but still!!!

Cut him/her some slack, will you!

Atlantis is just doing what you would/should expect from a good moderator. Did it occur to you that Atlantis formulated his/her request as follows:

may I ask to all members...

...and since it is a free world after all, you are free to answer "No".

Regards,
bAIR

[Charlie Roy]

Of course people are the source of confidential information shouldn't share it. But once information is in the public domain I have no qualms sharing it, discussing it, speculating on it, testing its verity.
If some journalist writes in a Greek newspaper that Easyjet are "possibly" going to launch Brussels - Athens, why shouldn't I share this information?
People should anyway know not to believe everyone and everything that they read... This is a forum afterall. Speak and let speak!

[JOVAN]

THREE MAY KEEP A SECRET, IF TWO OF THEM ARE DEAD....

BENJAMIN FRANKLIN

[sn26567]

Interesting discussion.

Until now the moderators have not found any confidential information that should be taken away from this forum. Unless a company asks us to remove confidential information pertaining to that company and obtained in an illegal way, we shall keep posting messages from our members that are in compliance with the forum rules.

[jan_olieslagers]

Well said, André, and well done. As always, my gratitude!

And I can't help wondering about the silence from Atlantis. Thinking it over? Nothing wrong with that.

[Atlantis]

Well said, André, and well done. As always, my gratitude!

And I can't help wondering about the silence from Atlantis. Thinking it over? Nothing wrong with that.

Because we have to work during the day!!!!!

I'm very surprised about the, sometimes, very hard words. Maybe I was not clear enough with my two posts in this topic. Maybe I can try in Dutch?

Ik heb geen enkele keer gevraagd om niets meer te posten over Brussels Airport. Ik heb alleen gevraagd om info die insiders of via via EVEN voor zich te houden tot Brussels Airport een aankondiging doet over een uitbreiding, de LCT, of het even wat. De meeste insiders die ik persoonlijk ken op dit forum doen dit omdat ze zichzelf en/of anderen niet in gevaar willen brengen.

Eens een aankondiging officieel is gepasseerd is kan iedereen gerust zijn mening geven. Ik heb toch nooit het tegendeel beweerd? Ik sta dan ook vol verwondering over sommige personen die serieus uit hun dak gaan en spreken over vrije mening en toestanden zoals in China. Waar halen jullie dat in godsnaam!!

Dit heb ik niet zonder reden geplaatst. Denken jullie dat ik niets anders te doen heb??

Ik hoop dat iedereen het nu doorheeft en gewoon rustig wordt en laat bezinken.

[LX-LGX]

The request by Atlantis not to publish a recent decision by Brussels Airport before BRU announces it, really makes sense. Simply because aviation-enemies also visit luchtzak.

Some people think Atlantis is forum administrator. Which he isn’t.

Some people think Atlantis works for Brussels Airport. Which he doesn’t.

Some people say that freedom of speech is guarantueed by the Belgian constitution. But it isn’t. The Belgian constitution guarantuees freedom of opinion. And the Belgian constitution guarantuees freedom for the printed press ("de drukpers is vrij"). But at the same time, the constitution reduces this if it’s linked to criminal offences. We have a nice example about this limitation of the freedom of press just today, when was announced that Saskia D.C. will be formally prosecuted because she has posted a letter to the editor of De Standaard, using somebody else’s name (Noël D.V.). Another example shows that freedom of speech is not unlimited: a stewardess has the right to order me to shut up during the safety briefing. Why? Because it’s a criminal offence if I endanger other passengers. Wonder what will happen if I then call in my constitutional right of freedom of speech…

Some say that the absence of a Non-Disclosure Agreement allows them to post what they want, where they want. But this is also not true. Every single person who is employed (= from the cleaner till the CEO) has "beroepsgeheim”/ secret of the job. Facts that one finds out about his employer or his company must be treated as confidential at all times. That’s way we all use nicknames here, isn't it? And please note: "beroepsgeheim" has to be distinguished from "ambtsgeheim" - ex. for lawyers, medical doctors.

And I fully agree with Atlantis that most of the reactions here are indeed against forum rule c.

[jan_olieslagers]

You seem to know and to love Atlantis very much, LX*? Are you two lovers, perhaps? Or even one and the same person? It 's all so mysterious... While I admit the comparisons to China &c are not serious, the insistence on secrecy on your behalf is also contrary to forum rules. And don't come whining about judicial subtleties please: there is feedom of speech on this forum, indeed. People who are professionally bound to discretion have to respect their engagements, of course, but that is not the point. I for one have every confidence in the moderators - which apparently Atlantis (and/or yourself) don't. As I immediately replied, I really wonder what is behind all this, besides Atlantis/LX-LGX obviously having been scolded, from quite high up likely.


*not the first time...

[tolipanebas]

Some people say that freedom of speech is guarantueed by the Belgian constitution. But it isn’t. The Belgian constitution guarantuees freedom of opinion. And the Belgian constitution guarantuees freedom for the printed press ("de drukpers is vrij").

LX-LGX,
you really should know better that that.
Although the constitution doesn't mention electronic newsforums by name, it is widely understood that the freedom of speech (deducted from the combination of freedom of opinion and freedom of press) is not limited to the printed press alone, but also includes the 'modern media' like radio, television and internet...

Besides, that's one funny interpretation of freedom you have there!
Basically what you're saying is: "You're entitled to THINK what you want, but you may not EXPRESS it in any form." You haven't been to lawschool in the DPRK by any chance, have you?

The constitution reduces this if it’s linked to criminal offences.

And what criminal offence is there in disclosing a fact before it is officially announced by the stakeholders?
Indeed, there isn't, which is why it's never an offence to break news...

Some say that the absence of a Non-Disclosure Agreement allows them to post what they want, where they want. But this is also not true. Every single person who is employed (= from the cleaner till the CEO) has "beroepsgeheim”/ secret of the job. Facts that one finds out about his employer or his company must be treated as confidential at all times.

You're wrong and you know it.
Otherwise why bother having NDA's in the first place, right?
As an employee, one has a contract to do a certain job, for a certain salary and at a certain standard; one does not automatically also resign the right to have and express any opinion which may not fit those of the employer!

Your views of labour relations constantly show a very 19th century attitude my friend, but unfortunately for you, we're no longer working at the textile factories of Aalst, you know?

[Ducatibiker]

I always suspected that some posts here were meant for internal justification. On other forum, when someone officially speaks for a company directly involved or named in the discussion, at least they clearly identify themselves and even put their title.

I see this as another token of unprofessional attitudes found at the airport which I realise does not reflect the entire management but I wish their effort would be aimed at improving their service to the customers. Security agents and the absence of a fast lane make the security screening one of the worst to be found in Europe and their managers actually behave in the very same way to be found here: they think we are children to be taught a lesson. Sorry but this is wrong and trying to control what we say or what we read is just…ridiculous!

[LJ]

And what criminal offence is there in disclosing a fact before it is officially announced by the stakeholders?
Indeed, there isn't, which is why it's never an offence to break news...

In case of BRU it is illegal to disclose information not available to the general public at the same time for eyryone. BRU is part of a publicly traded company (Macquaire) and therefore the general disclose rules of a publicly traded company apply (which mean that the company, or its employees, may not disclose information before it´s publicly announced). Note that the fines may be very high for the company and may result in criminal charges.

Having said this I feel it´s the responsibility of a poster to know what he/she may disclose (and those in management should know this very well). If confidential information is leaked to this forum, I can only say that the airport as some very serious issues with its employees. I´ll never disclose information which I received from work nor do I disclose information on what my company is doing and with whom they do business (allthough sometimes hard if someone else says something which is 100% untrue). Unfortunately not everyone has the same principles. Also note that I do support whistleblowers, but only if there are really wrongs things going on at the company they work for.