Air France AF447 crash into the Atlantic: Airbus A330 aircraft parts found

[TCAS_climb]

1. There's sometimes a huge gap between the theory and the reality. Severe damage remains possible, including a hole in the airframe (cfr. Delta Airlines CRJ). Even with the weather radar turned on you might be taken by surprise.

2. The weather breifing available didn't forecast any particularly hazardous areas.

[sdbelgium]

AF confirmed 1 Belgian citizen was aboard the flight. Full list is available here: http://adjix.com/6iqc

[AirBozz]

1. aircraft are designed and tested to cope with lightning - but all depends on the size and position of the lightning strike

2. oceanic routes are calculated depending on weather conditions - pilot briefings before flight include extensive weather coverage and charts - and they have a weather radar onboard which (if enabled and used correctly) shows severe precipitation (CB's or thunderclouds) which shall always be avoided
The significant weather charts from last night clearly show predicted CB's across the route
specific procedures exist to avoid weather on oceanic routes

They where flying in the dark - a huge towering CB (going up to the stratosphere) would probably not be visible with the naked eye

other factors could be "clear air turbulence" which is not visible


other info of interest:

Official press releases:
http://alphasite.airfrance.com/flight-a ... unique2499

significant weather chart AFR447:
http://twitpic.com/6ezau/full

[Depretair]

What about a rapid decompression or overspeed ?

[andorra-airport]

Is it possible that there is a a radio transmitter beacon activated ? Or is it not possible due to the high impact of the (presumed) crash?

[Bralo20]

Is it possible that there is a a radio transmitter beacon activated ? Or is it not possible due to the high impact of the (presumed) crash?

It has allready being confirmed that none of the 3 beacons available on the A330 were activated since no sattelite picked up a signal. The beacons don't work under the surface and normally are activated automaticaly during/after a crash (although they can be activated manually).

This can indicate to a very rapid disintegration of the airplane...

[cnc]

thx for the information
to be honest i'm surprised nobody (in general, not just from this forum) is thinking about a terrorist attack

[earthman]

thx for the information
to be honest i'm surprised nobody (in general, not just from this forum) is thinking about a terrorist attack

A terrorist attack seems unlikely due to the remote location: the main point of a terrorist attack is that everybody immediately sees the horrible results of the attack, not after days or weeks of searching the bottom of the ocean, if ever. Although I think the explosion on board the Philippine 747 did occur over water..

Anyway, nobody seems to have claimed that they attacked the flight. It also doesn't seem like a likely target, a French plane with mostly Brazilians on board. You would expect that an attack would occur on a French plane with French on board (or mostly westerners, at least), or a Brazilian plane with Brazilians.

[Bralo20]

A terrorist attack seems unlikely due to the remote location: the main point of a terrorist attack is that everybody immediately sees the horrible results of the attack, not after days or weeks of searching the bottom of the ocean, if ever. Although I think the explosion on board the Philippine 747 did occur over water..

Anyway, nobody seems to have claimed that they attacked the flight. It also doesn't seem like a likely target, a French plane with mostly Brazilians on board. You would expect that an attack would occur on a French plane with French on board (or mostly westerners, at least), or a Brazilian plane with Brazilians.

Although very unlikely, a bombing cannot be ruled out at this point. Since the wreck (or at least the debriss) hasn't been found yet all options remain open. It could be a simple electrical problem which caused a series of events resulting in the crash, it can be everything... including a bomb...

A couple of days prior to the event of the vanished A330, there was a bomb thread for an Air France flight leaving CDG to EZE... Although nothing as been found and the flight was going to Argentinia and not Brazil you cannot rule out an "attack" although chances are very slim.

Hopefully the wreckage can be found very soon so the cause of this incident can become clear. But then again, salvaging the wreckage can be a problem also... Since the lack of mayday calls it can be assumed that the airplane disintegrated very rapidly. Also the depth of the ocean can be a problem salvaging wreckage since it has an average depth of more then 3km's...

[regi]

to CNC:
if you read my first reply about this subject you will see I mentioned a sudden decompression by an explosion. I did not even dare to mention an attack instead off an accident.

But another member GRNKG immediately made it clear that I am not allowed to speculate about possible causes.

I admire your bravery that you brought it up . But don't be surprsied to receive replies that say you have to wait for the offical reports - let's say within 2 to 5 year when they have retrieved every piece of the bottom of the ocean. ( by the way: what is the depth over there? )

[Bralo20]

let's say within 2 to 5 year when they have retrieved every piece of the bottom of the ocean. ( by the way: what is the depth over there? )

Just one post above:

Since the lack of mayday calls it can be assumed that the airplane disintegrated very rapidly. Also the depth of the ocean can be a problem salvaging wreckage since it has an average depth of more then 3km's...

Which is actually 3.000 meters or more then 10.000 feet. Some areas are even 5.000 meters deep.

I doubt the plane will ever be recovered. Maybe some parts and when they can find it the CVR and the DFDR but I don't think they ever salvage every single piece they can find.

[Boeing767copilot]

Very interesting analysis about weather conditions on:

http://www.weathergraphics.com/tim/af447/

[aerophile]

The wreckage of TWA 800 was mostly recovered and reassembled by investigators but it went down in less than 50m of water off New York City.

Clearly that will not be possible for Air France 447 sitting in thousands of feet of water hundreds of miles from shore.

Given the problems of recovering aircraft voice and data recorders when aircraft go down in deep water does anyone have an opinion on why such data cannot be stored in real time via telemetry thus negating the need to physically recover the 'black boxes? Space and military agencies do this with their missile launches at flight parameters not unlike those of commercial aircraft. Obviously it would be a great help in the current situation if that data were sitting in a computer someplace on land.

[flightlover]

I think sending and recieving data at such a massive scale would be quite hard to do. But with the leaps in technologie humans make it should be feesable in a few years time.

[TCAS_climb]

I read somewhere that it would saturate all the available bandwidth available and cost 500 M$ !

[sn26567]

A simpler and cheaper way would be to attach the data recorders to an inflatable buoy that would automatically be expelled from the aircraft in case of a heavy impact.

[Desert Rat]

SSFDR records more than 800 parameters, and therefore the size of the memory is limited, on A330 I think it records the last 25 hours...the electrical failure(???) was probably transmited through ACARS via satcom (I doubt that they could have transmitted automated message trough VHF or HF so far away from the coast line...)on AF Airman server, It' a real time failure transmission but limited to Ecam warnings or PFR's...

[Desert Rat]

- and they have a weather radar onboard which (if enabled and used correctly) shows severe precipitation (CB's or thunderclouds) which shall always be avoided
[/url]

New weather Radar Multiscan or auto-tilt are much more efficient than the previous as they scan as well in the profile of CB's...I'm pretty sure that this new A330 was equipped with the latest technology in weather radar...

[itami]

For those interested in the meteorological conditions of this flight : a detailed meteorological analysis

[TCAS]

See ***** AF447 detailed meteorological analysis by Tim Vasquez.

Officials investigate Argentina bomb threat as pilot claims Air France Flight 447 was blown out of the sky by terrorists
By David Gardner
Last updated at 12:08 AM on 04th June 2009

Air France received a bomb threat four days before Flight 447 plunged into the Atlantic Ocean off the coast of Brazil, it emerged yesterday.

The telephone warning targeted a flight from Buenos Aires that was also travelling to Paris.

Although that plane arrived safely on May 27, the news fuelled speculation that there may be a more sinister explanation for why the Airbus from Rio de Janeiro vanished from radar screens with 228 people on board, including five Britons.

Full article (Mail Online)