Cargo B moves to LGG

[Desert Rat]

When I read some comments from our vlamingen friend's...I feel like I will throw-up...

Another little comment to the moderator of this website, you should be ashamed to let people's write shit like this on a forum...
But I guess they are from the same side of the fence...

Anyway just to stir the pot a little bit more...Historicaly,Vlaanderen is not region who developped aviation in this country, they manage to get the big part of the cake year after year by kicking off the french-speaking out of the airport, and by putting HR manager favorising the vlamingen...
It's the first kick back for the "race supreme", I can't wait for the next one...

[Conti764]

When I read some comments from our vlamingen friend's...I feel like I will throw-up...

That's your problem? In stead of countering with arguments you have a reaction that is typical in this country.

Another little comment to the moderator of this website, you should be ashamed to let people's write shit like this on a forum...
But I guess they are from the same side of the fence...

I hope the moderators see the political side of this story. Politics should be discussable in a case like this, where politics are influential and a large part of the story. In stead of whining about this 'shit' you might try to put some own input in the discussions to prove us wrong.

Anyway just to stir the pot a little bit more...Historicaly,Vlaanderen is not region who developped aviation in this country, they manage to get the big part of the cake year after year by kicking off the french-speaking out of the airport, and by putting HR manager favorising the vlamingen...
It's the first kick back for the "race supreme", I can't wait for the next one...

This is talk of a hypocrit. On one side you condemn our political talks, on the other side you can't withstand the need to 'stir the pot a little bit more...' Have it one way or the other, but not both ways.

To answer your 'argument'.

1. It is utterly false to state that the 'vlamingen' (as you like to call us) have no foothold in the development of Belgiums aviation when, in times Sabena got founded and Belgiums air exploration developed, Flanders was of no real intrest for Belgium and the flemish didn't have much rights. Back then, it was a unitary, solely french speaking country and certainly the upper clas was francophone. So blaming Flanders does not have a foothold in Belgiums aviation is very unfair.

2. Your statement that french speaking employees get kicked off the airport is plain bullshit. A very large part of the staff at Brussels Airport still is french speaking.

[Conti764]

(in dutch) http://www.luchtvaartnieuws.nl/News/?id=30560
(in french) http://www.rtlinfo.be/rtl/news/article/ ... t+poubelle+
the local residents complain that the airport became a "trash airport". I don't know how they dare complaining. They had compensation like nowhere in Europe, they had very good soundproofing, and those in the zone A had the opportunity to sell their house. Now shut up people !! (Especially when a new company flying silent -400 is comming)
(in dutch) http://www.standaard.be/Artikel/Detail. ... ection=214

That last line in De Standaard article says it best. It is time for Flemish politics to start working in Flanders future in aviation in stead of laying back and expecting everybody to come to BRU automatically.

One more thing about Cargo B: are they going to move that ugly wreck of them to LGG as well? Or will they leave it rotting away at the BRU appron? In that case it seems only fair the airpot authorities make them pay fully for the storage of the plane and possible environmental costs.

[Acid-drop]

is it possible to move that wreck you think ?

[Desert Rat]

looks like some vlamingen reach the EGT red line...

Welcome to LGG Cargo B.... ...

[Conti764]

is it possible to move that wreck you think ?

It was sarcasm, you know... But I do hope BRU will let Cargo B pay the full bill for it.

[flightlover]

Strange I don't see a note on the strict noise regulations in Brussels to which the Flemish government can't do anything and that is at the base of the whole tragedy. Sad that even a Flemish newspaper doesn't notice what is really happening.

And one more thing. If I read the article correct LGG would be investing in CargoB, not just by paying for the move. So just the same trick they pulled for getting Ryanair to CRL. (note: LGG is owned by the Walloon government)

These two things combined mean that Walloon politicians are working overtime to hurt BRU. So why should the Flemish ppl would have to hold back in theire comments?

And now the Walloon minister is whining about the Flemish complaint against night flights on LGG.
Talk about measuring whit to standards.

only in dutch: http://www.demorgen.be/dm/nl/996/Econom ... onie.dhtml

[Accry]

Conti764:
One more thing about Cargo B: are they going to move that ugly wreck of them to LGG as well? Or will they leave it rotting away at the BRU appron? In that case it seems only fair the airpot authorities make them pay fully for the storage of the plane and possible environmental costs.

and don't forget BrusselsAirport Cpy gets some interest into CBA also...

[Nevihta]

Well, always same problem in this country, political, linguistical stuff and so-called conspiracies are hiding the real problems, and preventing us from thinking further away, in a more "global" way.

- A part at Bru doesn't want low cost... we have an important low-cost airports in europe 60 kms from Bru.

- Cargo is not "well accepted" in EBBR (see what happened with DHL...), and we have one of principal cargo airport in Europe.

- EBBR is not well fitted for General aviation, and we have a such a good aerodrome within the Brussels TMA...

- EBBR is doing very well for pax, both charter, Europe and worldwide.

What about thinking globally and what could happen in the next years ?

[Bralo20]

When I read some comments from our vlamingen friend's...I feel like I will throw-up...

Anyway just to stir the pot a little bit more...Historicaly,Vlaanderen is not region who developped...

Just to make something clear

Vlamingen friends is not something that exists in the English language. I think you mean "Flemish friends"?

Also Vlaanderen isn't an English word. The correct translation would be Flanders.

[Desert Rat]

.
Just to make something clear

Vlamingen friends is not something that exists in the English language. I think you mean "Flemish friends"?

Also Vlaanderen isn't an English word. The correct translation would be Flanders.

You guy's always moan because the rest of the planet is not speaking freaking dutch...I was just pleasing you by inserting some vlaaaaming in the text, so you would be more confortable...

[Atlantis]

(in dutch) http://www.standaard.be/Artikel/Detail. ... ection=214

The article says just the same like I did the last couple of days. Also the professor is right: Walloon has to put its targets on the rest of the world and not on the Belgian market where they just took away clients and companies. Nobody will win this battle. LGG maybe in this case but not for long.

PMV and Brussels Airport can't react at this moment and Cargo B needed very urgent fresh money. If the Walloon government will invest in Cargo B, other operators on LGG will complain.

We will see next week

You guy's always moan because the rest of the planet is not speaking freaking dutch...I was just pleasing you by inserting some vlaaaaming in the text, so you would be more confortable...

I think that everybody understood it. Please leave it that way and stop it!!

[LJ]

Right now only Flanders is loosing. There are huge investments being done at Brucargo to modernise the infrastructure and give customers a better package. B-cargo is het first one to move a sizeable operation to LGG. Who is going to follow? Singapore?

Now you´re mentioning them... Singapore Cargo is the only airline which is actually expanding their cargo ops at AMS (currently at 12 weekly flights)... Don´t know if they reduced their ops in BRU yet but if I look at the BRU website I do see them cancelling flights regulary.

[Acid-drop]

Atlantis : what may look like a "steal" to you is in fact just the opposite : LGG is helping BRU, the politics and the people living aroung the airport to realise their wish : have a quiet airport at night. LGG has nothing to do in that decision.
Now, LGG is also a belgian airport that helps a belgian company to survive. Just forget those community problems for a minute.
What if all those companies had to leave the country to go to AMS or FRA, would you be happy ? What if all those belgian had to loose their jobs instead of moving just 80km ? Think...

[MH53]

I don't see what all the fuze is about. Governments and airports can try whatever they want to attract or direct traffic to certain airports but the airlines and the market decides where they fly to.

For Cargo operators it is just important if the airport is;

- 24h/7d open
- Low landing & handling charges (I agree this can be influenced by the local government)
- Quick handling
- Good reachability, no congestion for trucking

In that way it makes perfectly sence that Cargo B is moving from BRU to LGG from an airline perspective because

- BRU is restricted in their night operations
- Highly congested road network around Brussels
- More expensive than LGG

Ostend maybe interesting but from a geographical perspective it is less interesting, LGG is just more central located (near to Germany) than Ostend. How many airports in Europe are still open 24h/7d without to many restrictions?

For cargo airlines & forwarders it does not matter to fly to another airport a few hundred kilometers if it is cheaper and operations are more flexible, trucking the last part is cheaper than flying directly. Besides that we are talking about a few hundred kilometers where most Cargo flights are Intercontinental except for Express services/integrators (UPS, TNT, DHL and FedEx) and even they are already trucking more and more just because it is a lot cheaper. In times of recession price is more important than 24h deliver assurance where it can be trucked within 48hours. Why otherwishe more and more perishables are flown via Belgium than straight to Amsterdam?

For Pax it is a different story and then again there is difference between LCC(Low Cost Carriers) and FSC(Full Service Carriers). CRL is perfect for LCC like Ryanair, BRU is not except for Easyjet because they have a certain amount of Business pax where Ryanair is more leisure orientated. Therefore BRU should not focus to much on LCC but more on FSC. After all a lot of important international offices (EU, NATO, etc etc) are located in and around Brussels and there fore they should focus on the business pax and less on Cargo because of the restrictions. FSC is also prepared to pay more because of their Hub and Spoke network than and LCC.

Just be happy that we got 3 good running airports and who knows Ostend will florish one day again

Look at our Dutch neighbours, they don't got an airport where they can fly 24h/7d. It maybe be open 24h/7d but you don't want to operate their at night because of the restrictions and higher charges. Why would CAL otherwhise move to LGG?

People who are against aviation or have problems with noise by the way should not complain. Because the same people want to fly as cheap as possible during the summer holidays even when it is in the middle of the night with their charter flights.

I am just a guy who loves aviation and looks a bit further than local politics, you have to look a bit more global than local and therefore we should be happy it stays within the same country!

ps A lot of things which has been written here was already said before

[Megaman]

I hope the moderators see the political side of this story. Politics should be discussable in a case like this, where politics are influential and a large part of the story. In stead of whining about this 'shit' you might try to put some own input in the discussions to prove us wrong.

I hope the moderators have better stuff to do than worry about 3rd class politics. Belgium has no politicians, only clowns. Belgium has no leaders, only fools charging at windmills... Our grootouders are probably ashamed of what we've let this country become. Thank god Belgium still has a few families that are taking care of business (Solvay, Delhaize, AB Inbev, Davignon & co., etc...). I would like to see them run the country.

If you spend 2 years looking for a "premier" I think it says a lot about the kind of talent we've got taking care of this country.

Life's short, do you really want to waste it with this kind of garbage? I don't!!!

[jan_olieslagers]

we have a such a good aerodrome within the Brussels TMA...

Hm. TMA's are normally on top of a CTR, so they don't touch ground. Hard to imagine an a/d floating some 1500' or so AMSL... Apart from this bit of nitpicking, there's quite some truth to your words!

[Desert Rat]

[quote="Conti764
This is talk of a hypocrit. On one side you condemn our political talks, on the other side you can't withstand the need to 'stir the pot a little bit more...' Have it one way or the other, but not both ways.

To answer your 'argument'.

1. It is utterly false to state that the 'vlamingen' (as you like to call us) have no foothold in the development of Belgiums aviation when, in times Sabena got founded and Belgiums air exploration developed, Flanders was of no real intrest for Belgium and the flemish didn't have much rights. Back then, it was a unitary, solely french speaking country and certainly the upper clas was francophone. So blaming Flanders does not have a foothold in Belgiums aviation is very unfair.

2. Your statement that french speaking employees get kicked off the airport is plain bullshit. A very large part of the staff at Brussels Airport still is french speaking.[/quote]








Yes I must admit , I'm an hypocrit...probably my flamish part, my father is from Sint Truiden, I guess it's genetic...

I was assuming that the moderators would erase all that crap about Wallonia, but once again, you guy's are from the same side of the fence...

for the point number two, as you say "A very large part of the staff at Brussels Airport still is french speaking"....still is french speaking.... but for how long...It's shrinking like the snow in the sun...Brussels airlines staff 80% vlamingen,LHT 90% flemish,aviapartner same story...

I'm ex SNT, and I can tell you that in 2002 when they laid off the 600 guy's, there wasn't much flamish in the bunch, ...what would you expect...HR flamish...Union flamish...laid-off 85% french speaking...

And now you are moaning just because cargo B operation moves to LGG, you are crazy man...if they moved to LGG, it's because it better suit their plan. period.

Anyway who's working for Cargo B???do you think they will hire french speaking just because they move to LL?? Is it what you are afraid of??? Really??

Stop with the french conspiration it is ridiculous,as usual the vlamingen show that they are completly paranoic...

Waht are you trying to demonstrate here, that all politic in wallonia is crap, and everything is fair and professional in vlaaaanderen???...

Talk about aviation, and stop to break my balls with your stupid political comments...or may be the solution would be to switch luchtzak.be to luchtzak.vl, so at least you can full time bash the walloon and the fransquillion from Brussels...

I'm surprised though that we did not hear comment from regi,the jan oliebazar.... the full VMO-TAK-VB team would have been on the field ....

[Nevihta]

we have a such a good aerodrome within the Brussels TMA...

Hm. TMA's are normally on top of a CTR, so they don't touch ground. Hard to imagine an a/d floating some 1500' or so AMSL... Apart from this bit of nitpicking, there's quite some truth to your words!

You're right.
I should have explained I meant within the lateral limits of Brussels TMA.

For clarity, I was talking for Antwerp which CTR (Gnd - 2500 ft AMSL)is just below EBBR TMA2 (2500ft AMSL - FL195)

[sn26567]

PS mr. forum manager can we really not have a spelling checker again?

The forum manager cannot help on this. You should address the webmaster!