They say: Charleroi is the most depressing city in Europe

[eu01]

A British newspaper says: Charleroi, the most depressing city in Europe becomes more depressing by the day. We can read: "Every year, millions of tourists and visitors pass through Charleroi's airport, the "Brussels South" home to Ryanair and other budget airlines, without glimpsing anything more than the city's terrils and abandoned factories.

"People fly in to visit Belgium on their way to Brussels or Bruges and they are shocked at the landscape of dirt, slagheaps and wasteland which looks like something from Russia," said Bert Thiry, 43, who works near the airport. "It does not make me proud to be Belgian."

Frankly, I have not been to Charleroi yet. And if I fly somewhere with lcc's, I never only pass by on my way elsewhere. I always try to see also the city where the airport is located. Do you also think there are no reasons to visit Charleroi on the way to Brussels?

[Desert Rat]

For sure the brits can give us a lesson...go to Lutton or Manchester and il looks the same, but the difference is that charleroi's people are sympathetic and open minded...

By the way, where are you from???

[Megaman]

Why would you want to visit Charleroi if your destination is Brussels? No hard feelings about Charleroi, but I doubt that's the reason why people fly in to Charleroi. Price and location (close to brussels) probably would be the assets of that airport but I guess that depends on what you're interested in.

personnaly, I don't recall terrils near the airport. Sure there's Caterpillar not too far and also Sabca and a vast technology business parc, but once you leave the airport site, you're directly on a plain motorway on your way to your destination.

I went on a trip to Sorrento once and had to land in Naples (probably one of the top 10 cities not to go to if you're a tourist unless if you're ready to take a few material risks). Nobody's pushing you to visit the city where you land. I very rarely heard of toursits creating congestion in the village of Zaventem...

Personnally, I find terrils remind us of the industrial era, just like any other landmark of history and it's probably something worth seeing out of pure interest. Just a pile of coal, but so many stories behind this plain pile of coal. You can say it's ugly of course, I mean it's just a pile of coal and stone, but maybe there's more than meets the eye.

[eu01]

By the way, where are you from???

I'm a typical modern days' European. Living in at least two different EU countries at the same time (one home in Central, an other in Northern Europe, travelling around). Nevertheless, I'm not British, if you mean that.

[Desert Rat]

You should probably read something else than Brits Tabloid...Also, there's a lot of place in Central Europe who looks even more depressing than Charleroi to me...

So get a life or hang yourself...

[summersso]

Have a look at www.charleroiadventure.com. Hilarious!

Regarding the comment on Central Europe- perhaps there are more depressing places, but they're generally on the way up!

[eu01]

Well, I've always been able to find many interesting places wherever I've flown to. I'm sure I will find enough points of interest around Charleroi as well. Don't blame me for what the British press has written about the place, I gave you the link and you can argue against it.

Btw. - where do you see so many depressing places in Central Europe? I know, geographically the center of Europe is somewhere in the Western part of Belarus, but I didn't mean just that. Ask Germans, Austrians, Czechs on Swiss citizens - they'll tell you they live in Central Europe.

[b720]

Belgium does have an image problem.. at the worst, people say that Belgium is grey, dark, wet, dreary..and boring..
at the best they say..that Belgium is the best kept secret of Europe..
In either case we need to promote our country a bit more agressively.. as it is a great place..

back to the link, I guess that people do not expect to see that misery in Belgium.. that is what shocks people.. it will be less shoking had it been in eastern europe..

[airazurxtror]

Although I do like Charleroi, I certainly would not recommend it to the ordinary tourist in search of a beautiful and artistic city.
Charleroi is down from its past glory, when the carbon mines and steel factories were in full swing. It's now rather a poor town, not overly clean or safe. But it has its charm, a "poignant" beauty that you feel if you come to it with an open mind. And the locals, the "Carolos" are cheerful and congenial. Even if Charleroi center and the surrounding area is occasionally rather risky (robbery and vandalism).
Going to CRL by highway, you see only the countryside and the airport car park is safe, as far as I know.
By train + TEC bus : the Charleroi Sud railway station late at night is like most railways stations : you have to be cautious ...

[regi]

As a true holder of a true Belgian passport and a very regular visitor of the Charleroi area, I can only say that indeed you don't see the grey, old coal mine hills and closed down steel mills near the airport.
The Caterpillar works nearby is a very clean and neat manufacturing plant of which there are very few comparable in the UK ( JCB at Rocester which is located in a park side)
And if you leave the airport and drive straight towards the highway up north to the real Brussels, and you don't look in your rear mirror , you will not understand what that article was all about.

But if you are in a depressive mood and you need to be convinced that you have a good life compared with many other people, turn to the left at the highway, drive south towards Charleroi city centre.
First of all you will be impressed with the Charleroi one way ring road. The city centre is a bit on a hill where there are some churches. But your eyes will automatically drift away to the outside of the ringroad. It is the one terril after the other, grey brown factories, smoke (if they are not closed yet) , run down lorries, drifting old cars , all mixed with the most desperate suburbs I have ever seen such as Marchienne au Pont .
Torture yourself and visit places like Courcelles, Anderlues, and go further. Visit Mons and La Louvière. Thousands of people live there in the 80 to 100 year old miner houses, row after row.
Hey, hold on, that almost sounds like Manchester, Birmingham ( The Black Country ! ), Sheffield, Leeds, Newcastle and other UK places which are only good to make police movies like "Frost"
There exists a "nice" website of a professional photographer who made great pictures of the Walloon forgotten industrial past. I forgot the name but if you are a real masochist, you should be able to find that torturing website.

[Acid-drop]

Charleroi is down from its past glory, ok, true, but we have to agree that it's one of the ugliest place in Belgium right now. The problem is Charleroi is that there is no city center, it's just a whole big suburb, with factories in the center, without nice old building, without structure. Antwerp and Liège also have ugly stuff but they are mostly outside the city, keeping the center rather clean and nice to visit for their architecture and culture.

Anyway, I'm not sure that this journalist really visited Charleroi, the neighbourhood of the airport is rather nice, with high tech companies and nice landscape (I don't see how coal mine hills could be negative ... it's just decoration now, no negative impact). This part is really on the uptrend, and may save the whole city (we wish so).

We could also suggest the journalist to go one day to Brussels city, which I believe is the ugliest capital of the 25 in Europe.

[regi]

I did reread the article and found some strange things.
The article refers to the killings by Marc Dutroux at the house at Marcinelle, a Charlerloi suburb.
But even here the journalist has not done his home work properly.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Dutroux
The 2 girls Julie & Mélissa had been kept here in a basement cellar - while Marc Dutroux was in prison. His wife Martin didn't feed the girls and they both starved to death. The bodies were buried in a garden in Sars-la-Bussière. ( 30 km from Charleroi )
What the death of An and Eefje concerns, there has never been any proof that he killed the girls at this house. And there was no proof that he killed them at all. It is believed that he drugged them so severely that in the end he gave them away to Weinstein, another devilish accomplish , to get rid off the girls. Those 2 bodies were discovered at Jumet ( 5 km from the airport) , nearby the body of Weinstein, who Dutroux confessed he had killed.
And the 2 girls Sabine & Laetitia were found alive at the house.
So technically speaking, MD did kill just Weinstein, with uncertaintity about the place and cause of death of An & Eefje. And the starvation of Julie & Mélissa can be blamed on his wife.
If we look at data, Andres Pandi beat the record of Dutroux with at least 5 confirmed killings - in Brussels !
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andr%C3%A1s_P%C3%A1ndy

But both predators were heavely overshadowed by a French guy: Fourniret. He killed at least 7, but there is a wide believe that it could be several more over a longer time span. He partially committed his crimes also in the Walloon part of Belgium, near Gedinne, south of Charleroi...

Some extra notes for that journalist:
The terrils are no sign of poverty but are the monuments of wealth for thousands of Europeans. First Flemish peasant migrant workers, than Italians, Polish, Portugese, Spaniards,...It gave them a steady income and escape out of rural poverty.
Second thing about the terrils and Dutroux: the police dig out half of a terril looking for bodies because MD had a caravan nearby a terril.
They found a large underground network of tunnels, which the local council wanted to repair as a tourist attraction. But it was sealed off again because of lack of funds.

Some last personnel remark:
I believe that predators like MD, Pandi, Fourniret, the West couple and others could have stopped earlier in their exploits if society ( neighbours, police, family, friends ) was more aware and acting pro active.
The best proof of this was that the neighbours of Dutroux had heard the children cry in the basement. And a (alcoholic) policeman sent to check it out was convinced that it were the neighbours children.
But please do also not forget that when the father of An Marechall went to report the missing of his girl , he was handled very badly by prosecutor Berkvens - who is still in position by the way. If Berkvens would have believed the story of this concerned father and not have said that every daughter would run away from such a tirranic father - An & Eefje would have been alive and Sabine & Laetitia would not have been abducted.
There was a report about a white van that picked up 2 girls and 1 phone call of inactive Berkvens could have allerted the police .
Sad that I pay Berkvens his salary and his future pension. He should be cleaning child graves with his tooth brush.
Let us turn back to aviation now.

[Acid-drop]

dude, you're talking too much about this episode, this is not linked to a city or a country. Let's forget this.

[eurojet]

Married to a Spanish, I need to pick my in-laws up at CRL very frequently. Once they asked me to visit Charleroi, which I did. They were shocked, and so was I, being Belgian myself. When we went to Maastricht once they wanted to see Liege, same thing, and at night even more frightening in the city center (drunks, homeless, dealers, police...). I travel frequently to Eastern Europe, and they do a much better job there using EU-money to clean up their past. I am extremely embarrassed as a Belgian about these two places. On a positive side, people living there are in general warm and helpful. Image these days is everything, and that they did not really get yet at CRL and LGG.

[an-148]

Married to a Spanish, I need to pick my in-laws up at CRL very frequently. Once they asked me to visit Charleroi, which I did. They were shocked, and so was I, being Belgian myself. When we went to Maastricht once they wanted to see Liege, same thing, and at night even more frightening in the city center (drunks, homeless, dealers, police...). I travel frequently to Eastern Europe, and they do a much better job there using EU-money to clean up their past. I am extremely embarrassed as a Belgian about these two places. On a positive side, people living there are in general warm and helpful. Image these days is everything, and that they did not really get yet at CRL and LGG.

sorry, but I think you visited Seraing or another industrial suburb and definetely not Liège itself: the historical centre is worth thousand pictures; people who visit Liège always come back !!!
just have a look to treakearth, you'll understand: http://www.trekearth.com/gallery/Europe ... ege/Liege/

[Acid-drop]

I believe this is the syndrom of big cities.
Bruges is nicer than Antwerp, Leuven nicer then Brussels, Maastricht nicer than Liège...
If you come from something nice and small, you may be scared by what is completely normal in a big city. Guess this is what happened with you when visiting Liège, altough quite different from Charleroi.
Liège has typically a nice core (what is missing in Charleroi), with ugly industrial suburbs in the first ring (what Charleroi and other industrial tows have plenty), and then rich country suburbs in the 2nd ring (like any big belgian city I guess).

[sn-remember]

Being from Liege (with mother -flemish origin from Marchienne-au-Pont) it is "normal" to defend roots and good memories linked to them..
However my opinion regarding LGG or CRL is :
"Can do better" (and in the case of CRL : "Can do A LOT better")
True the image is very important but we have to act more coherently and decisively applying true and tough policies to make things really go better ..
However I don't like the fast descriptions putting everything in dark shades.
Wallonia is full of contrasts often the worst mixed with the better .. I don't mind having a beer in Charleroi as in any other place in this country.
And now back to aviation

[airazurxtror]

However my opinion regarding LGG or CRL is :
"Can do better" (and in the case of CRL : "Can do A LOT better")

I fear there is some confusion here.
The title of the post is "Charleroi is the most depressing city ..." - meaning thus the town; CRL is the airport, at Gosselies.
Same for Liège, the city - and LGG, the airport at Bierset.
When you say that CRL can do a lot better, if you mean Charleroi can do a lot better, I agree; if you mean the airport, I would like you to explain in what it has so much to improve.

[regi]

Oh sorry, we did all misunderstood and nobody read that article - which was only about the city and its surroundings and no word about the quality of the airport.
OK, so the airport.
Good location, good acces, enough parking space and than starts the trouble.
But we are not allowed to complain because it is so called low cost. That means that you have to accept any inconvenience, bad airport lay out, expensive parking fees, unpolite officals ( I don't understand why there is a difference in attitude between airport police at Zaventem and Charleroi. It cannot be explained by the regional background , because other members told us already that the Carolo's are such a wam, friendly people. Maybe it is the nature of problems they are confronted with ), dirtyness ( Erna complained about dirty toilets at Zaventem, I guess she never has been at Charleroi Airport ) and so on.
So now we are back on track on the aviation subject.

[airazurxtror]

That means that you have to accept any inconvenience, bad airport lay out, expensive parking fees, unpolite officals ( I don't understand why there is a difference in attitude between airport police at Zaventem and Charleroi. It cannot be explained by the regional background , because other members told us already that the Carolo's are such a wam, friendly people. Maybe it is the nature of problems they are confronted with ), dirtyness ( Erna complained about dirty toilets at Zaventem, I guess she never has been at Charleroi Airport ) and so on.

I beg to disagree with you on a few points.
- bad airport lay out : as the saying goes : "You can tell how good an airport is by how quickly you can get out of it". In that case, CRL is not that bad.
- parking fees : 24 hours cost 15 euros at CRL, 17 or 22 at BRU.
- attitude of airport police : I can't judge here, I have never had any argument with airport policemen, either at BRU or CRL. If one remain calm, polite and considerate, one is generally treated in the same manner.
- dirty toilets : I have still to find an airport where the toilets are faultlessly clean 24/24. (And it's the travellers that dirty them fast).