Issue with Triple 7 ?

[OO-VCL]

Hello everyone,

I just heard something about (serial) motor issue on T7 during the 7pm news. But I was too late & missed explanation. Can someone give me more info on this ?

Thanks & nice w-e to all of you

[Conti764]

Hello everyone,

I just heard smthg about (serial) motor issue on T7 during the 7pm news. But I was too late & missed explanation. Can someone give me more info on this ?

Thanks & nice w-e to all of you

I saw it on the 'journaal' of 13h... It wass about the freezing issues of T7 engines (most of them RR engines) on (very) long haul flights. They used the BA T7 short of the runway at Heathrow as example.

I thought it was funny about the aviation 'expert' stating that 'several US airlines fly the T7 to BRU' Only one airline overall is flying the T7 to BRU, and it's United.

[SN056M]

Isn't Jet airways also flying the T7 to BRU sometimes.I know they also use the A330

[OO-VCL]

In the meantime, I found this article from last wednesday :

Urgent repair recommended !
http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/03/11/boeing ... index.html

[sdbelgium]

Isn't Jet airways also flying the T7 to BRU sometimes.I know they also use the A330

No, they pulled the 77W and thus also the 9W First Class Lounge of Brussels routes last January. All 9W-flights into BRU are now operated by 2-class A330-200s.

I thought it was funny about the aviation 'expert' stating that 'several US airlines fly the T7 to BRU' Only one airline overall is flying the T7 to BRU, and it's United.

Both American and Continental will start to fly the 777 this summer, but technically now only United flies them indeed.

[euroflyer]

I saw a report on UK SkyNews o Friday morning and they made a quite big issue of it, asking why BA would not ground its whole fleet of T7s immediately. They said the report did say the same fault which led to the LHR accident could happen again at any time to all T7s because of a design-fault somewhere around the fuel pumps ?! Anybody more info on what the report really said?

[Boeing767copilot]

Washington, DC - Following two engine thrust rollback events on Boeing 777 aircraft powered by Rolls-Royce engines, the National Transportation Safety Board issued an urgent safety recommendation today calling for the redesign of a Rolls- Royce engine component. The Safety Board also recommended that, after the redesign is completed, the new system be installed on all affected B-777 airplanes at the next maintenance check or within six months.

These recommendations are being issued in response to the findings in two investigations - an accident and an incident - involving engine thrust rollbacks on Boeing 777-200ER airplanes powered by Rolls-Royce RB211 Trent 800 Series engines. In both cases a build-up of ice (from water normally present in all jet fuel) on the fuel/oil heat exchanger (FOHE) restricted the flow of fuel to the engine, resulting in an uncommanded engine rollback.

The first event, which is still being investigated by the UK's Air Accidents Investigation Branch (AAIB), occurred on January 17, 2008, when a Boeing 777 experienced a dual engine rollback on final approach and crashed short of the runway at London's Heathrow International Airport. One passenger was seriously injured, eight passengers and four of the flight crew sustained minor injuries; the airplane was substantially damaged.

The second event occurred on November 26, 2008, when a Delta Air Lines Boeing 777 experienced a single engine rollback during cruise flight over Montana while en route from Shanghai to Atlanta. Normal operations resumed after the flight crew followed Boeing's published procedure to recover engine performance; the airplane landed safely in Atlanta.

Testing in support of the UK accident investigation led Boeing to develop procedures to help prevent ice accumulation, and to recover thrust in cases of ice blockage. As more information from the Delta rollback event was developed, Boeing modified the procedures, which became the basis of an airworthiness directive issued by the Federal Aviation Administration.

While the procedures may reduce the risk of a rollback in one or both engines due to FOHE ice blockage, they add complexity to flight crew operations, and the level of risk reduction is not well established. And because the recovery procedure requires a descent, the aircraft may be exposed to other risks such as rising terrain or hazardous weather, or the inability to achieve maximum thrust during a critical phase of flight, such as during a missed approach.

Because of these hazards, the Safety Board has determined that the only acceptable solution to this safety vulnerability is a redesigned FOHE that would eliminate the potential of ice build-up. On February 23, 2009, Rolls-Royce indicated that a redesign of the FOHE was underway, and that they anticipated the redesign to be tested, certified and ready for installation within 12 months.

"With two of these rollback events occurring within a year, we believe that there is a high probability of something similar happening again," said NTSB Acting Chairman Mark V. Rosenker. "We are encouraged to see that Rolls-Royce is already working on a redesign, and we are confident that with the FAA and EASA (European Aviation Safety Agency) overseeing the process, this flight safety issue - even one as complex as this - will be successfully and expeditiously resolved."

The NTSB has made the following two recommendations to both the Federal Aviation Administration and the European Aviation Safety Agency:

Require that Rolls-Royce redesign the RB211 Trent 800 series engine fuel/oil heat exchanger (FOHE) such that ice accumulation on the face of the FOHE will not restrict fuel flow to the extent that the ability to achieve commanded thrust is reduced.
Once the fuel/oil heat exchanger (FOHE) is redesigned and approved by certification authorities, require that operators of Boeing 777-200 airplanes powered by Rolls Royce RB211 Trent 800 series engines install the redesigned FOHE at the next scheduled maintenance opportunity or within 6 months after the revised FOHE design has been certificated, whichever comes first.
The NTSB and AAIB will continue to work together closely on both of the rollback events as each of the investigations move forward.

Safety recommendation letter to the Federal Aviation Administration: http://ntsb.gov/Recs/letters/2009/A09_17_18.pdf
Safety recommendation letter to the European Aviation Safety Agency: http://ntsb.gov/Recs/letters/2009/A09_19_20.pdf

[euroflyer]

"With two of these rollback events occurring within a year, we believe that there is a high probability of something similar happening again," said NTSB Acting Chairman Mark V. Rosenker.

Hm, so is everybody still happy to board a T7 than? Should there not be some restrictions / recommendations whatsoever on the operation of T7s be put in place for the time until the redesigned parts have been built in? I am no specialist in a/c safety, but this does seem a bit strange to me. If my garage would tell me there is a design fault with your car, and there have been already two incidents / accidents, one ended with a total crash, and there is the high probability it will happen again sometime with either your car or another one of the same type; well I would not be happily going on to drive down the motorway with 120km/h (or more ) and wait until they have come up with a redesigned part ...

[Andries]

I saw a report on UK SkyNews o Friday morning and they made a quite big issue of it, asking why BA would not ground its whole fleet of T7s immediately.

Because not all BA T7's haven RR engines. Only the aircraft with registrations G-YMM* have RR Engines. The G-VII* and G-ZZZ* aircraft all have GE90's.

I thought it was funny about the aviation 'expert' stating that 'several US airlines fly the T7 to BRU' Only one airline overall is flying the T7 to BRU, and it's United.

Both American and Continental will start to fly the 777 this summer, but technically now only United flies them indeed.

Continental has General Electric GE90 and United has Pratt & Whitney PW4000 engines. On 777-300ER, like those of Jet Airways, the RR-engine isn't even available. So none of these airlines have a problem. Remember that the problems are situated on the Rolls Royce engines for T7, not the others. The only one that has a problem now is American Airlines, but they are still sending their 767's to BRU.

Conclusion :
1) No problem at BRU at this time
2) The 'Aviation Expert' on TV clearly isn't such an expert ...

Greetz,

Andries

[joyraider]

Last year an AF T7 captain told me he had that situation once (don't remember which engines and whether it was a 200, 300, LR, ER or whatever), which kinda scared me a bit (we were flying a T7 300ER at that moment ). Seems that there are some issues going on indeed..