Welcome b.business europe!

[SmilingBoy]

1) Seat arrangement in the Avros: will it be 1-2 or 2-2?

Or 2-3 like on LX?

[b.lufthansa]

They should do like Iberia: business class with service, economy class without service but a la carte!

[tolipanebas]

Upgrade will be possible for 5000 miless If I'm not wrong.

You'll be awarded 2,000 miles per stretch in C-class;
to buy a C-class ticket, you'll need 12,500 miles per stretch.

b.flex really is a nice economy class, much better then most normal eco services which you can get on short-haul flights.

You'll be pleased to hear than that b.flex is going to offer increased on board services then, with all meals served on a tray again, iso that cardboard box it used to be in. However, your hand luggage allowance will be reduced from 2 pieces to only 1 in the future. Seems like b.flex is fully realligned with the traditional top economy product once more.

On the contrary, b.light is downgraded almost completely, with only drinks (and on longer flights also a very limited number of unperishable snacks) for sale. Forget about any frills, even if you're willing to pay for them! The most surprising aspect of b.light is that no airline branded material will be used in this class, as if SN does not langer want to associate it's name (which will soon feature the STAR alliance logo) to such a cheap class!

Concerning the B737, it is true that I am wondering as well how we will manage a 3-type service on board, as it is already a mess with 2 classes and high b-flex pax figures.

Have a look at what the colleagues do at SAS, it seems to work quite ok

The point is not the 3 different products, but the lack of galleys to stow away all the china, the hot meals, the champagne bottles, the glasses, the towels etc...
Remember those 737s come from VEX and are configured for low cost operations: they are already a pain in the ass with the current 2 products, so you can already imagine the mess on board if there will be a C-class again. It's one of the reasons why the offering in b.light has been seriously downgraded IMO, but I doubt that will be enough really. I'd love to see how they'll cope on a flight to GVA, with 10C, 30 b.flex and 60 b.lights for instance!

I have heard that there would be no additional CA at SN with the introduction of the b.business, I hope these are just rumors, mostly on Avro.

Nope, unfortunately this is for real!
SN wants to stick to just a 2 cabin attendant service on the RJ! Can you imagine that?
Going to BHX with 10 C, 20 b.flex and 40 b.light on a 45 minutes flight!
Don't expect to even see a flight attendant pass by in b.light, I'd imagine, but don't worry, there won't be anything but drinks for sale anylonger, anyway....

The devil is in the details. I still have a few unanswered questions:

1) Seat arrangement in the Avros: will it be 1-2 or 2-2?
2) Cabin crew: the service provided for b.business should normally require one additional flight attendant (3 instead of 2 in the Avro, 4 instead of 3 in the A319 and 5 instead of 4 in the 737). Will it really be the case?
3) A three-class service is likely to be complicated, thus costly. SAS has such a system and is deeply in the red. Are there plans to evolve into a more normal C/Y configuation (I mean a genuine Y class with snacks or meals and drinks)?

1) the rule is: 4 seats per row on ALL planes, meaning that on the RJ, it will be 2-2 (but only if they'd really need to go to this, expect them to just add another row to C-class really, given our current load factors)
2) see above... no plans to increase the number of cabin attendants for budgetairy limitations...
3) again see above... b.light is converted into a 'feel free to ride along, but don't expect anything but a drink for sale class', whereas b.flex is going to be such a genuine economy class once more, including meal service on a tray, rather than boxed hand-outs.

Whether all of that is possible with such a thin-stretched number of cabin crew remains to be seen, but I doubt it. Maybe if the loadfactor stays as low as it is now, but not if we get back to acceptable numbers once again... In short: expect some changes in the future, as with anything SN introduces...

Also, quite interesting, the avoid over-compartimentation of the cabin (especially on RJ), no large curtain divers will be used, but rather stand-up-tabs on the back of the seats on the last row of any class.

[Air Key West]

I think that by the start of the winter season, b.air will have realised that many of their Business pax on European flights come from travelers connecting to/from intercontinental flights, First and Business class pax from 9W, EY, AA, HU and business class pax form b.air's own Africa flights, plus a small number of pax traveling inside Europe who are still allowed or still can afford to travel in C. These pax are now seated in b.flex. With their transfer to C-class, the number of pax in b.flex is very likely to decline (perhaps even by half ?).
My experience of having lived seven years in France and extensive travel with AF, is that on AF's A320 family of aircraft, AF also have a three class configuration, and the two classes with the most pax were always the one at the front (Business) and the one at the back (economy reduced, but with free catering). The intermediary class, Tempo Challenge (comparable to a large extent to b.flex) was often limited to only two or three rows that were not even always full.
My guess is that if my prediction is right (which it might not be, but I personally strongly believe in it), b.air will see no need to keep b.flex on account of the small number of pax it attracts in future and will, at the latest with the full take over by LH (but maybe even before) switch to a two class configuration, with an economy class in-between b.flex and b.light in terms of service, with free catering on the LH model.

[HighInTheSky]

I think it will be quite a challange to make the new service work... People who fly light now and already think they are neglected should fly again with us in 2 months

And as said by Tolipanebas, seating is 2-2 and crew is minimum. 2 On Avro, 3 on A319, 3 on 737-300 and 4 on 737-400.

I don't think it will take a long time before there is an extra ccm for each flight (I hope it anyway).
Or why not the old rule? When there are more then XX % of C-class and flex pax: an extra ccm.

[euroflyer]

On the number of flight attendants: Anybody an idea how it is done with other airlines? I am not sure, but I think eurowings for example (flying for LH) has only 2 in their BAe 146 as well. Can anybody confirm this? And the flight LH4581 BRU-FRA for example is very often full (and I mean 100% full). They seem to be able to do it. But maybe I am wrong ...

To me it would be logical to answer the question of an additional crew member in connection with the load factor: So on very short flights, with high load factor and high number of b.business or b.flex pax one more flight attendant; for the rest not ...

[b720]

B.Flex, B;lite, or B.C. does not matter as long as their planes are safe.. and they leave on time...the latter
is not evident.. they should post a weekly 'on time' performance percentage .. very amusing.. on a 45 min hop within europe,a sandwich served on a tray, in a box, or not at all..is besides the point..one needs to know that the plane will not drop from the sky.. and that it actually leaves on time.. that is what counts at the end of the day...Love them or hate them Virgin Express had a FANTASTIC on time performance.. unfortunately, that attribute was not taken over by SN.

[euroflyer]

They should do like Iberia: business class with service, economy class without service but a la carte!

Oh no, that is really one of the worst short-haul products in Europe

[brusselsairlinesfan]

Any news, photos, comments, etc on b.business?

[BrightCedars]

I've flown SN FCO-BRU Mon Apr 13 in b.flex. Remarkable service, I mean superb, the crew just gets the greatest accolades for the best in-flight service I had in Europe in a long, long time (must have been 10-15 years ago). Even better than what was my last best experience which was also my first with SN in b.flex.

There was a section of 2 rows reserved for b.business ahead of b.flex, sadly it was totally empty. Now being Easter Monday during the Easter holiday, being a new product, and Rome being a tourist destination, this can be understood. There was no curtain (yet) but a nice small divider placed on the Velcro that holds the headrest cover stating Business in front from the back and b.flex behind from the front.

I can only warmly recommend SN and can't wait to see them make a run on BRU-BEY.

[euroflyer]

The devil is in the details. I still have a few unanswered questions:

1) Seat arrangement in the Avros: will it be 1-2 or 2-2?
2) Cabin crew: the service provided for b.business should normally require one additional flight attendant (3 instead of 2 in the Avro, 4 instead of 3 in the A319 and 5 instead of 4 in the 737). Will it really be the case?
3) A three-class service is likely to be complicated, thus costly. SAS has such a system and is deeply in the red. Are there plans to evolve into a more normal C/Y configuation (I mean a genuine Y class with snacks or meals and drinks)?

Hm, I had my first flight two weeks with the new 3-class system, it was in a B737. I will be flying with SN again tomorrow morning which should be an Avro (I just checked-in in the web), so I might be able to tell you than about the seating. In the B737 all middle seats were blocked in b.business.

Two weeks ago there were certainly not more staff onboard, but honestly I doubt it is necessary in general. My flight was the morning flight SN2608 FRA-BRU and load was less than 60% and only 3 or 4 guys in b.business, 6 or so in b.flex and all the rest in b-light. So the staff was honestly very relaxed and did not had to do very much (which is with my experience generally the case with SN flights - one reason why I like to fly with them!! Always very relaxed atmosphere on board, never very hectic, friendly staff, relatively low load factors, much of space ...). You should see how it is on the LH4572 flights FRA-BRU one hour later which very often is a A320 with load factors far above 90%, and here all eco pax get a (ok, very small) snack and a drink. Cabin crew really has to be fast than with a flight time often below 50 minutes ... which results in a much less relaxed atmosphere

[Crosswind]

The main problem with the 737's? They are too old and in a "charter" config, far away from a business class seat standard... Old armrest, old floor carpet, cheap coating...

We must change for new NG's!!

[euroflyer]

The main problem with the 737's? They are too old and in a "charter" config, far away from a business class seat standard... Old armrest, old floor carpet, cheap coating...

We must change for new NG's!!

I do not care that much about the age (and they are not SOOO old), the carpet or the armrest , but the seat pitch is really a problem. This is fine for a b.light product, but not for b.business and maybe even not for a premium economy b.flex product. A solution could be the way TAP is doing it on their A319s, the first 10 rows or so have more space between the seat rows than the rest ...

[sn26567]

A solution could be the way TAP is doing it on their A319s, the first 10 rows or so have more space between the seat rows than the rest ...

This is also the case for the 5 (I think) first rows on SN's B737s.

[brusselsairlinesfan]

Are those problems with catering & comfort fixed?

Do they attract many PAX on b.business ?