Colgan Air Q400, N200WQ crash (Continental Airlines flight)

[itami]

Just heard on Radio1 : Continental Airlines flight from Newark to Buffalo crashed on a house causing a big fire. Around 50 people might have died in the accident. More details to follow.

[Shanti]

48 on board(44 passengers + 4 crew members ), it was on a flight
from Newark to Buffalo. More information on CNN. Nobody survived
the crash.

[itami]

More details in The Buffalo News. Very sad indeed.

[Nevihta]

Apparently, it's a de Havilland Dash 8 DHC8-Q400, flight CJC3407
Icing conditions on approach are suspected.

[sdbelgium]

Airplane Colgan Air Q400, N200WQ.

http://www.flightlevel.be/20090213_lijn ... -york.html (Dutch)
http://www.luchtvaartnieuws.nl/News/?id=29604 (Dutch)

[levent]

Link to the ATC recording of Buffalo Tower around the time the Continental Express Q400 crashed near Buffalo Airport on February 12.

The crashed aircraft is Colgan 3407. Note the difference in the voice of the pilot between the transmission around minute 14:05 and the last transmission from the aircraft around 15:05 - you can clearly hear some distress in her voice.

After this, it takes some time for the controller to realise something is terribly wrong. At 20 minutes into the clip, he is asking other crews whether they can see anything on the ground. They then try to determine whether there are any icing conditions that may have caused the accident.

(Personal note: this accident is a blow to Continental Airlines, following the accident in Denver last December. Although the plane was not operated by Continental, general public perception will be that is was.)

[BrightCedars]

Isn't that aircraft type the one that was let go by SK due to safety concerns?

[earthman]

Isn't that aircraft type the one that was let go by SK due to safety concerns?

That was an issue with the landing gear. This one did't even get to use it's gear...

[NCB]

Link to the ATC recording of Buffalo Tower around the time the Continental Express Q400 crashed near Buffalo Airport on February 12.

The crashed aircraft is Colgan 3407. Note the difference in the voice of the pilot between the transmission around minute 14:05 and the last transmission from the aircraft around 15:05 - you can clearly hear some distress in her voice.

After this, it takes some time for the controller to realise something is terribly wrong. At 20 minutes into the clip, he is asking other crews whether they can see anything on the ground. They then try to determine whether there are any icing conditions that may have caused the accident.

Thanks for the recording.

The fact that she is half-crying and not declaring any urgency but just repeating instructions suggests that there's more to this story than we think.

[regi]

The problems with the SAS Dash were landing gear related and at first sight seem to be not related to this accident.
First cause seem to point to icing problems.
But some problems with the landing gear of the D-400 of SAS seem to be indirectly related to temperature problems as well. I do remember to have read a blog response from a USA mechanic reporting many problems related to temperature differences with this type in the USA.

No conclusions yet. But we are free to bring up older issues I suppose.
Before some would start bashing me, remember I was the first one to bring up wind shear as cause of the Phuket crash. Which later turned out to be the exact cause of the crash. ( combined with wrong paper work regarding the flying crew )

[smokejumper]

Severe icing conditions were reported in the area. I assume that the leading edge de-icing boots were on as well as the electrical de-icers on the propellers. Generally, they are turned on at about 10 degrees C (about 50 F) to keep ahead of any problem. One report (CNN) is that "orange peel" icing might have occurred on the control surfaces, but all information is just speculation now (need to wait for the NTSB investigation to conclude).

[levent]

Would this mean that the aircraft was doomed anyway, whether the normal de-icing systems were working or not? (hypothetically of course)

[TexasGuy]

Very sad news indeed

[sdbelgium]

50 deaths confirmed now: an off-duty pilot on board was not counted at first, but has been confirmed dead...

[NCB]

After extracting data from CVR and FDR's, NTSB released that crew were discussing concerns about icing prior to losing control of the aircraft. NTSB also stated that the aircraft would have encountered unusual pitch and roll attitudes, which potentially suggests that the aircraft was outside its flight envelope, potentially due to icing.

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/20 ... olgan.html

RIP Colgan crew & passengers.

[NimbusFlyer]

First I would like to comment on some of the assumptions made on the tone of the pilot’s voice like “you can clearly hear some distress in her voice” or “the fact that she is half-crying”. At no point whatsoever I have heard any distress in her voice, no sign of any tears to me. The only thing you will hear is the typical vibration in her voice common to radio communication from turboprop pilots caused by the engine vibrations at certain power settings.

The intonation of her voice at the 15:05 communication sounds like she’s very comfortable with the situation as it is. By the way, 15:05 wasn’t the last communication, 16:10 is the last one when she acknowledges the controller with a simple readback of the callsign. Still no sign of any distress or worries.

Second, while the ongoing investigation focuses pretty much on icing, I would like to share an interesting video on ‘tailplane icing’ made by NASA. It takes 23 minutes but you will see that this one is worthwhile watching, pilot or non-pilot: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 0735779946

Grtz.

[euroflyer]

I read yesterday in a paper (sorry, cannot remember which one ) the autopilot was flying the plane when the crash happened despite a 'rule' saying that in conditions with icing being likely to happen this should not be done ? Any confirmation of that information somewhere else as well ?

[sdbelgium]

I read yesterday in a paper (sorry, cannot remember which one ) the autopilot was flying the plane when the crash happened despite a 'rule' saying that in conditions with icing being likely to happen this should not be done ? Any confirmation of that information somewhere else as well ?

There is no such rule, it is only advised by NTSB to take manual control of the airplane in severe icing conditions... so no obligation, just advisatory.

It is still unclear how bad the icing conditions were at the time of the crash. Pilots spoke about "significant icing". However, following the FAA "significant" is not an official term, they only know light, moderate and severe icing...


From avherald:

The NTSB recommends to fly manually in icing conditions to get a better feel of the airplane, however, the FAA takes a different attitude due to workload issues. No regulation exists therefore requiring pilots to fly manually in icing conditions.

The Dash 8-400 flight crew operating manual released by Bombardier, owner of de Havilland, requires flight crews to disengage the autopilot in severe icing conditions.

The use of the autopilot was therefore appropriate - other than what almost all media reported today.