http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?Cont ... ba87f0842f
Av Week has been saying this for a month or so now.
My take is that Airbus put themselves in a tough position. The A350 is not a 787 competitor )along the edges where the two overlap and you could go either way depending on pax, route structure etc).
So, all those airlines that ordered the A350 Re A that was a direct competitor have either had huge changes in their route structures and or pax exceptions or are working on the best deal they can get with a non optimized aircraft for their missions (others of course order latter and knowing what they are getting) . That can make the final details a real bear to try to meet those that actually want a 777
replacement/competition and those that really want and need more of a 787 competitor.
I would guess that when its all said and done you will see a year delay minimum in the schedule for the A350.
Boeing in the meantime still has not got the 787 off the ground, though we can hold our breath as it should be fairly soon, right....... er maybe.
The $64 Quixotism for the 787 is the -3 model. I don't think you will ever see it, the demand for it seems extremely limited (almost non existent) . Maybe just too inflexible and the airlines would rather pay the penalty for using long haul for that mission (compensate with fuel fill not being used or tanks not installed) so they can switch if need be. Makes sense in this day and age of who knows where its all going.
Boeing may offer a modified -8 or -9 to meet the orders from JAL and ANA, some wing mods rather than a whole new wing would seem to be the route to go if JAL and ANA insist on Boeing meeting g that commitment.
Stay tuned, almost into 2009 and we may get to see the 787 actually fly. Maybe the most mature ground based new aircraft ever to fly (A380 delays were wire related and it was actually the test aircraft fleet while waiting for the the rest to be worked out. )
A350 Design Freeze Delay
Moderator: Latest news team
Re: A350 Design Freeze Delay
There is a major presentation of the XWB to existing and potential buyers in March, 2009, so IMHO it will be finished before then.
Bear in mind the design has been frozen for quite some time, the so called "design freeze" at the end of 2008 is detail features only to make it all go together.
Probably the fact that a lot of customers were less than impressed with the new galley layout has involved calling in the plumbers to re-route the pipes.
Cheers
Bear in mind the design has been frozen for quite some time, the so called "design freeze" at the end of 2008 is detail features only to make it all go together.
Probably the fact that a lot of customers were less than impressed with the new galley layout has involved calling in the plumbers to re-route the pipes.
Cheers
Re: A350 Design Freeze Delay
Whats the target date for this bird to fly?
Happy New Year everyone
Happy New Year everyone
Theres nothing better than slow cooked fall off the bone BBQ, Texas style
Re: A350 Design Freeze Delay
Clark admitted such delays are increasingly common. "If you look at the history of aircraft programs on both sides of the Atlantic, they almost always come to market late," he said, noting Airbus recently pushed off design freeze for the A350 until 2009, a delay that could impact its scheduled 2013 introduction.
Av weeks seems to thing more like 2015. Stay tuned. While using the 787 as a bad example, its a different construction technique, so it will have its own share of problems. Helping it is sticking with the older bleed air system, so few development issues there (though with all the 787 delays they probably will do better than I initially though based on an earlier entry date and less time to work the bugs out).
Definitively interesting contrast between the two. Where it looses out is life cycle costs and the inspections still have to deal with the nose section made out of conventional structural materials covered with non convectional panels. Not sure if you can just do a D check on that or not. Still pulls it out of service as often as existing, though maybe not as long.
Interesting times, but a lull in actual new aircraft flights. 2nd quarter for 787, so that could be as late as June before first flight. Amazing (stunning, and I still remember the comments that the initial delays were nothing like the A380, pure nonsense). 747-8delayed 9 months and the 777F is jut a variation that should be a zero issue test program.
Av weeks seems to thing more like 2015. Stay tuned. While using the 787 as a bad example, its a different construction technique, so it will have its own share of problems. Helping it is sticking with the older bleed air system, so few development issues there (though with all the 787 delays they probably will do better than I initially though based on an earlier entry date and less time to work the bugs out).
Definitively interesting contrast between the two. Where it looses out is life cycle costs and the inspections still have to deal with the nose section made out of conventional structural materials covered with non convectional panels. Not sure if you can just do a D check on that or not. Still pulls it out of service as often as existing, though maybe not as long.
Interesting times, but a lull in actual new aircraft flights. 2nd quarter for 787, so that could be as late as June before first flight. Amazing (stunning, and I still remember the comments that the initial delays were nothing like the A380, pure nonsense). 747-8delayed 9 months and the 777F is jut a variation that should be a zero issue test program.
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chornedsnorkack
- Posts: 428
- Joined: 21 Oct 2005, 00:00
A350 and Tristar width
Tristar outside fuselage width is 597 cm. DC-10 is 5 cm wider, at 602 cm.
However, the Tristar walls are thinner at sides. The frames are thinner, skin is thicker and there are no stringers. Although Tristar is 5 cm narrower than DC-10 outside, the cabin is 5 cm wider due to thinner sidewalls.
Look at DC-10
http://www.boeing.com/commercial/air...s/dc10sec2.pdf
page 20.
10 seats, 2 aisles and their armrests combined have 224 inches width.
Tristar has 226 inches inside width.
How wide is A350? I have heard different numbers, like 591 cm and 596 cm. Which is right, and how does the cabin compare against Tristar and DC-10?
However, the Tristar walls are thinner at sides. The frames are thinner, skin is thicker and there are no stringers. Although Tristar is 5 cm narrower than DC-10 outside, the cabin is 5 cm wider due to thinner sidewalls.
Look at DC-10
http://www.boeing.com/commercial/air...s/dc10sec2.pdf
page 20.
10 seats, 2 aisles and their armrests combined have 224 inches width.
Tristar has 226 inches inside width.
How wide is A350? I have heard different numbers, like 591 cm and 596 cm. Which is right, and how does the cabin compare against Tristar and DC-10?
Re: A350 Design Freeze Delay
http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/ ... 5%20Review
Most of the design freeza has been announced just two days late, so not too bad.
Aboulafia, although amusing to read has long been a critic of Airbus, and his crystal ball has been a bit clouded of late, particularly his predictions on 787 progress.
McVitie is a "passed over" former employee of Airbus, so it is a fair assumption that he will never say anything positive regarding them.
Most of the design freeza has been announced just two days late, so not too bad.
Aboulafia, although amusing to read has long been a critic of Airbus, and his crystal ball has been a bit clouded of late, particularly his predictions on 787 progress.
McVitie is a "passed over" former employee of Airbus, so it is a fair assumption that he will never say anything positive regarding them.
Re: A350 Design Freeze Delay
There are comments about weight issues and other design details to be worked out.
I suspect a date of of 2014 close to best case, 2015 more realistic.
Airbus has been undergone chronic re-structure, and the latest with the moving of the A400 into a new division plays into it (as well as the attempts to sell off the factories etc)
The A400 may well loose GB as a customer, they need the aircraft now, and the C17s have done extremely well for them.
They are seeing cancellation of A330 (Thai). A380 is still in recovery.
A delay probably does not hurt them, as Boeing looks to be going to a upgrade of the 737 rather than a new airframe, and not a hint tht 777 replacment is anywhere on the horizion.
If they were going head ot head with the 787, a delay would hurt, as it stands, while long term not a good move, the short and in between term, they may be able to at least break even on it (all that wasted effort when they go to spun barrels and have to do the learing curve again).
Boeing is probably happy to split the market with them for now while they try to get the 787 flying, let alone into full rate production. Want' there a movie called "Same Time Next Year?".
The A330 tank is dead in the US, no way that's going to go in this climate.
I suspect a date of of 2014 close to best case, 2015 more realistic.
Airbus has been undergone chronic re-structure, and the latest with the moving of the A400 into a new division plays into it (as well as the attempts to sell off the factories etc)
The A400 may well loose GB as a customer, they need the aircraft now, and the C17s have done extremely well for them.
They are seeing cancellation of A330 (Thai). A380 is still in recovery.
A delay probably does not hurt them, as Boeing looks to be going to a upgrade of the 737 rather than a new airframe, and not a hint tht 777 replacment is anywhere on the horizion.
If they were going head ot head with the 787, a delay would hurt, as it stands, while long term not a good move, the short and in between term, they may be able to at least break even on it (all that wasted effort when they go to spun barrels and have to do the learing curve again).
Boeing is probably happy to split the market with them for now while they try to get the 787 flying, let alone into full rate production. Want' there a movie called "Same Time Next Year?".
The A330 tank is dead in the US, no way that's going to go in this climate.