2008-2009 Charleroi Airport (CRL) latest news

[an-148]

............. Brussels airlines flies to sicilia in summer time too.

and Thomas Cook too (TNT Bae144 from LGG to PMO)

[Acid-drop]

Many divertion to LGG today due to fog.
http://www.charleroi-airport.com/doc.ph ... 1&deploy=0

[Acid-drop]

Important news:

- ILS CAT III is coming in FEB 2009
- Hainan Airlines Company Limited (HNA) is still wanting to make CRL its euro hub, with long haul flights to Beijing, Hong Kong, and shanghai. New terminal, hotel, shoping, , 160-200 Meuro investment, 2000-3500 jobs.

1 other competitor (Save/Holding Communal) is also in competition, but with less impressive project, final decision is for 31st of march. Belgian Sky Shop (Group Frère) did not submit any project.

Source:
(French) : http://www.express.be/sectors/fr/logist ... 100613.htm
(dutch): http://www.hln.be/hln/nl/942/Economie/a ... eroi.dhtml

[stefanel]

Many divertion to LGG today due to fog.
http://www.charleroi-airport.com/doc.ph ... 1&deploy=0

I would have been so lucky, at 4pm yesterday Riga-CRL was the only flight that landed yesterday in CRL and I was supposed to be on it )

great news this ILS is due in 2 months!

[danieln]

Michael O'Leary will be in Brussels tomorrow (17 december). There is a press conference at 13h00, where he will discuss the decision of the European Court Of First Instance regarding Ryanair’s appeal of the Charleroi state aid decision, which will be announced in Luxembourg tomorrow morning.

[Conti764]

Important news:

- ILS CAT III is coming in FEB 2009
- Hainan Airlines Company Limited (HNA) is still wanting to make CRL its euro hub, with long haul flights to Beijing, Hong Kong, and shanghai. New terminal, hotel, shoping, , 160-200 Meuro investment, 2000-3500 jobs.

Honestly I don't see much future for HU at BRU, so going to CRL might be an understandable decision.

On the other hand, with SN joining Star Alliance and if HU is going to move to CRL, I can see Air China (CA) jumping in the BRU - China market and then HU will face some tough competition from CA, even more so since their is no partner for HU at CRL to operate European flights and the China - Belgium market is not that big to warrant two flights (a day?) to PEK, PVG (if CA steps in this market) and HKG (a destination SN will probably offer themselves since it was one of the few money making routes for Sabena).

Without flaming CRL or putting the airport down, things have changed since a few weeks/months, in favor of BRU.
-> SN will no longer be against the low cost concept at BRU because under the wings of LH and *A they'll become a full service carrier again.
-> Neither will JAF and TC because they will be allowed to use the LC infrastructure as well.
-> LH has already indicated that BRU will become the African gateway for the company and thus will attract some more international carriers.

Now, enough semi-off-topic...

All the luck to CRL and hopefully they'll make the right decision, although 160 - 200M euro investment seems rather low for a terminal, hotel and shopping center, doesn't it?

[airazurxtror]

Without flaming CRL or putting the airport down, things have changed since a few weeks/months, in favor of BRU.
-> SN will no longer be against the low cost concept at BRU because under the wings of LH and *A they'll become a full service carrier again.
-> Neither will JAF and TC because they will be allowed to use the LC infrastructure as well.
-> LH has already indicated that BRU will become the African gateway for the company and thus will attract some more international carriers.

SN becoming a high fares carrier under the German rule, LCC can thus come to BRU ?
Why should they ? Costly airport, with frequent delays, mile long pier, frankly, it cannot compare with modern airports like CRL. Just good for easyJet (not an true LCC, incidentally) and the like.
Brussels the African gateway ? Congratulations, but frankly, who cares to go to sub-saharian Africa, amongst the general public ? (speaking of it, any news of AirDC ?)
I hope Charleroi will never become a dinosaur like BRU, and will remain an airport of middle size, easy and pleasant tu use.

[danieln]

Ryanair seems to have won the case vs. the European Union. More news later.

[Acid-drop]

It seems that CRL has now almost everything to become a real good mid-sized european airport.
I still don't want to believe the chineese project though. This would be an important change on how european use their mid-sized airport. CRL would be one of the first.

On thing is for sure, everybody could win if Hainan invest in CRL. A new bigger terminal would be profitable for european pax also, Belgium would have a very great alternative to BRU, Ryanair would make it one of its mega hub. More companies are likely to join the game... Great success for only 10 years work !

I guess nobody is asking anymore where we're gonna build the second national airport.

[Atlantis]

Honestly I don't see much future for HU at BRU, so going to CRL might be an understandable decision.

What would be the difference between BRU and CRL? The flights to BRU are doing well ->70% - 80% loadfactor.

SN becoming a high fares carrier under the German rule, LCC can thus come to BRU ?
Why should they ? Costly airport, with frequent delays, mile long pier, frankly, it cannot compare with modern airports like CRL.

SN should be become again a full carrier and not a mix of semi-full service and LC.
There will be always LCC at Brussels Airport. They come and they leave. That's typical about this kind of aviation. Some of them are already flying for years at Brussels Airport.
Frequent delays?? Come on, be serious. At the airport we have no technical delays due to fog, snow, ATC, etc. If there are delays then it's because an aircraft arrived late at BRU or they have a technical. That's something different then delay in general speaking.
Mile long pier?? At this moment yes, but we are speaking here about an national airport with 19 million pax a year. You can't drop them in a terminal for 2 million pax and a pier with 15 gates.
When they will get green light for the LCT it will be a separate terminal and pier with max 12 - 15 gates.

Brussels the African gateway ? Congratulations, but frankly, who cares to go to sub-saharian Africa, amongst the general public ? (speaking of it, any news of AirDC ?)
I hope Charleroi will never become a dinosaur like BRU, and will remain an airport of middle size, easy and pleasant tu use.

Brussels Airport is indeed the African gateway and this for years. At this moment, in full crisis, the African flights are still showing black figures. Who can say that in these days?? And then we are not speaking about the tons of cargo each day to/from Africa.
Speaking in these terms about their African ops is just a disgrace and this for all the people who work for those companies who offer a daily good job to offer pax a good flight. Brussels Airlines has not the money like LH, BA, etc, so be carefull with your comments.

[itami]

and HKG (a destination SN will probably offer themselves since it was one of the few money making routes for Sabena).

To my knowledge Sabena never had regular flights to HKG, except a temporary cargo codeshare with Air Hong Kong already many years ago. Moreover LH didn't commit themselves (yet) to boost flights to the Far East by own SN metal. Till now the focus remains on Africa.

[airazurxtror]

Speaking in these terms about their African ops is just a disgrace and this for all the people who work for those companies who offer a daily good job to offer pax a good flight. Brussels Airlines has not the money like LH, BA, etc, so be carefull with your comments.

I have nothing against those who work (not those who strike) at BRU, but I don't owe them anything either; and I feel free to post any comment I choose, as long as I follow the regulations of this forum.

[airazurxtror]

"Le Soir" to-day, page 27 :
Only two contenders left for the shares of BSCA : the Chinese Hainan and the Italo-Belgian Save/Dexia. Decision expected this friday. Rumours : the Italian are preferred ...

[Conti764]

SN becoming a high fares carrier under the German rule, LCC can thus come to BRU ?
Why should they ? Costly airport, with frequent delays, mile long pier, frankly, it cannot compare with modern airports like CRL. Just good for easyJet (not an true LCC, incidentally) and the like.

I wass talking about the problems some companies had with LCC getting their own terminal at BRU. These are gone. SN shouldn't care about LC anymore and the charter companies can move to the terminal as well.

If companies do good coming to BRU, it's up to them to decide. Ryanair won't allow too much concurrence at CRL, so a second LC company setting up operations at CRL is highly doubtful. Taking this into account, BRU is quite a good alternative. They have their own small terminal with a new, basic pier. Only the queues to the runway will be allot bigger then at CRL, in the morning at least.

Brussels the African gateway ? Congratulations, but frankly, who cares to go to sub-saharian Africa, amongst the general public ? (speaking of it, any news of AirDC ?)

If that's the case, why do the African flights of SN still have decent LF's given the slow season and the bad situation of the economy? Why do they always have full planes in summer? There are numerous people or organizations (NGO's, companies,...) seeking for a quick, easy and reliable connection to BRU, many of them are in the US and not every US company can or will set up many operations at Africa the way DL is seemingly doing...

And if you really want to go that way, how many Chinese care to fly to Belgium, to an airport, relatively far away from Brussels or another big city, without any other company linking them to the rest of Europe? Or do you really believe HU is going to work with Ryanair to fly their pax to Europe? Which full service company do you see working together with HU flying their pax to Europe? Why an earth would the average carrier of Germany, France, Netherlands, Spain, Italy,... fly to CRL to only rely on HU to deliver a sustainable feed. And if they would do so, I wonder who long CRL would still remain that 'easy and fast airport' it is today...

I hope Charleroi will never become a dinosaur like BRU, and will remain an airport of middle size, easy and pleasant tu use.

Dinosaur? BRU has come to a new era these days. The A-pier just saw many new stores of established brands. The B-pier is getting a massive overhaul with new carpet throughout the concourse, refurbished seats, comfortable sitting areas and brand new and shiny stores in the middle of the pier.

And now SN is going to join Star Alliance, traffic at BRU will, without a doubt, rise again.

Sure, CRL has some advantages over BRU, but to keep those advantages they may not grow to big. HU setting up operations at the airport is one step, a possible new carrier at CRL to cooperate with HU and disperse their pax to Europe, is another. Let's see if CRL will remain the easy and fast airport it claims to be today...

[Conti764]

On thing is for sure, everybody could win if Hainan invest in CRL. A new bigger terminal would be profitable for european pax also, Belgium would have a very great alternative to BRU, Ryanair would make it one of its mega hub. More companies are likely to join the game... Great success for only 10 years work !

I know you don't like being caught out of your dreams, but aren't you being a little too optimistic here? Very great alternative? The average Flemish passenger would still prefer going to BRU to fly. The average Flemish leisure passenger already has an alternative to BRU and prefers going to LGG.

Of course, talking about low cost, CRL is the perfect choice. But it always has been since Ryanair coming to the airport, and HU won't change that and in the near future. Even more so, BRU is likely going to be an alternative for LC. But I expect CRL will always remain the preferred low cost airport in Belgium.

Which companies are likely to join? Big operations of new LCC won't be allowed by Ryanair. What full service international carrier is going to fly to CRL, just because Hainan is setting up their operation (if they will) at CRL? Which European carrier is going to rely on HU to assure them a sustainable feed?

[Conti764]

What would be the difference between BRU and CRL? The flights to BRU are doing well ->70% - 80% loadfactor.

Star Alliance? Why wouldn't Air China offer what Hainan offers at BRU when they are in the same alliance as home carrier SN?
Unlike Jet Airways, Hainan does not have a big operation at BRU so it is more likely they will flee the concurrence of another major Chinese carrier coming to the airport, whereas Air India has not intentions flying to BRU so SN could maintain the cooperation with Jet Airways.

[Conti764]

To my knowledge Sabena never had regular flights to HKG, except a temporary cargo codeshare with Air Hong Kong already many years ago. Moreover LH didn't commit themselves (yet) to boost flights to the Far East by own SN metal. Till now the focus remains on Africa.

There was a far east destination doing very good for SN. I thought it was Hong Kong... Or was it Narita?

[airazurxtror]

Why Save seems to have the lead over Hainan (in French) :

http://www.lalibre.be/economie/actualit ... ffres.html

Save already manages Venice Marco Polo, Treviso Canova and a few smaller airports :

http://www.veniceairport.it/page/attivi ... anguage=en

[Acid-drop]

From the radio news (RTBF) this morning :
It seems that the italian group should be chosen.
EDIT :
http://www.express.be/sectors/fr/logist ... 101028.htm

[Atlantis]

Of what I have heard, the decision is final . It will be the Italian group.