Brussels Airlines Joining Star Alliance

[itami]

But i think there must be more drastic changes, no?

Probably you mean "more visible" changes ? However don't underestimate the IT aspect ! Remember the story of the small sized Aer Lingus in Oneworld : one of the main reasons for EI leaving OW was that when JL joined the alliance, EI was required to spend millions of Euros to update its computer systems in order to be compatible with JL. EI expected about 10 pax/day extra due to JL joining. So basically EI would never regain this investment or have any benefit from it. Of course under the financial wings of LH SN's position is somewhat different. So I guess most of SN's IT stuff might soon be replaced by LH systems.

[HighInTheSky]

Probably you mean "more visible" changes ? However don't underestimate the IT aspect !

I don't. I know these are very complex systems and way to difficult to understand for me But, as you said, i meant the more visible changes. For us as employees, and for the pax.

But I am not "responsible" for them, I am just a Privilege Member (and yes, with a "Gold" status).

That was what i wanted to say, that you are a "Gold" member.

As i said before, i think there are some busy times ahead, and everybody will have to give a bit to adapt to the new systems and working methods.

[BrightCedars]

Well, it seems like I will be starting to fly SN again thanks to this important development. I used to fly Sabena a lot and and it came to a standstill when it went bankrupt. I had to fly entire other airlines and alliances to reach destinations that were not really covered by the new SN. Hopefully we will now concentrate on flying Star Alliance which offers a network broad enough to content our various needs. I'll be putting up some miles back on that Privilege account!

[airazurxtror]

I guess it"s the end of b light, and the "we are also a LCC" of Davignon (hard luck for him these days).
Not a bad thing for easyJet and Ryanair.

[Conti764]

Good thing SN is finally joining an alliance.

Now I expect one of the current hybrid livery A333's to become the logo jet with the Star Alliance tail.

I still find the absence of Brussels Airport in this story remarkable. Today the updated Star Alliance offices and boarding area got inaugurated and you don't read anything about on the website of BRU, nor do they post anything about SN joining Star Alliance and thus BRU becoming a Star Alliance hub or at least a gateway to Africa. strange...

I wonder what changes we might see regarding companies. Which players will come (back) and who will leave? I don't see a reason for AA to stay at BRU since both their destinations can easily be covered by CO and UA. I don't see DL ending a flight since there is no competitor in the ATL - BRU rotation and they have the JFK flight on their own, whereas AA started this flight for SN, which will go to rival Star Alliance.

I don't think 9W will leave BRU but in what condition will they stay? Will AI start flights between India and BRU? In that case it seems logical SN will put their code on the AI flights in stead of the 9W flights and a scaling down at the BRU - India legs is necessary for 9W.

A few Asian carriers maybe and SAA? I expect SQ to return and ANA. Maybe TG will go along and/or Asiana (possibly with a 747 Combo to supplement their current cargo operations at BRU).

It's obvious to me that SN should remain doing what they are doing, flying to Europe and Africa and serve only those destinations which are not served via their Star Alliance partners.

[sdbelgium]

I don't think 9W will leave BRU but in what condition will they stay? Will AI start flights between India and BRU? In that case it seems logical SN will put their code on the AI flights in stead of the 9W flights and a scaling down at the BRU - India legs is necessary for 9W.

I think I read somewhere that LH and the other Star members have approved the cooperation between SN and 9W yesterday in the board meeting in Chicago, since AI has no intention of flying to BRU...

[Atlantis]

I wonder what changes we might see regarding companies. Which players will come (back) and who will leave? I don't see a reason for AA to stay at BRU since both their destinations can easily be covered by CO and UA. I don't see DL ending a flight since there is no competitor in the ATL - BRU rotation and they have the JFK flight on their own, whereas AA started this flight for SN, which will go to rival Star Alliance.

I don't think 9W will leave BRU but in what condition will they stay? Will AI start flights between India and BRU? In that case it seems logical SN will put their code on the AI flights in stead of the 9W flights and a scaling down at the BRU - India legs is necessary for 9W.

A few Asian carriers maybe and SAA? I expect SQ to return and ANA. Maybe TG will go along and/or Asiana (possibly with a 747 Combo to supplement their current cargo operations at BRU).

Why would some airlines leave BRU when Brussels Airlines join Star Alliance? Finnair is going to increase their presence at Brussels Airport. As from April Royal Jordanian is flying again to BRU. Both are members of Oneworld. Finnair is an important carrier for the Belgian market and TO to reach Asia.

9W will stay at BRU because LH and Star allow the cooperation between SN and 9W.

SAA to BRU is doubt full because their financial situation is not one to start up whole new routes and markets.

[DannyVDB]

Hi all,

I see in a first phase new code-share arrangements. Most of them have been mentioned already.

I see code-shares with Turkish on Istanbul, Ankara
I also see code-share with Egypt to Caïro
I also see eventually LOT putting is code-share on the SN Krakau route (try again new routes?)
I am curious how they will reshuffle the routes to Portugal
What with SAS? What in Italy?

I am not doubting that US, UA, and later CO can replace AA to the US. The question is not which routes to the US, but which routes within the US. From Washington and Philadelphia I see less offer than now from Chicago and New-York, or am I wrong. In addition, I will not first fly to Frankfurt, Munich or Zurich to go to the US!

Regards,
Danny

[HighInTheSky]

I will not first fly to Frankfurt, Munich or Zurich to go to the US!

I think nobody ever stated that the direct flights between Brussels and the US would end. They even said at the press conference in September that SN would expand in Africa (as priority) and on other continents. So i think you will never be forced to fly via Frankfurt, Zurich or Munchen to go to the US. To other parts of the world like Asia for example, that will be an other story.

[Conti764]

Why would some airlines leave BRU when Brussels Airlines join Star Alliance? Finnair is going to increase their presence at Brussels Airport. As from April Royal Jordanian is flying again to BRU. Both are members of Oneworld. Finnair is an important carrier for the Belgian market and TO to reach Asia.

9W will stay at BRU because LH and Star allow the cooperation between SN and 9W.

SAA to BRU is doubt full because their financial situation is not one to start up whole new routes and markets.

I don't see a reason for AA to maintain a flight to JFK when both SN and CO join Star Alliance. Their flight to ORD is older and more established, but could be in danger to that of UA... The DL ATL - BRU rotation seems safer since there is no Star Alliance company on the route, but what about their JFK rotation? Scaling down to 752 probably saved this operation, no?

It's good that 9W will stay at BRU, it would be a shame to see them dissapear. Hopefully they will reinaugurate the 77W on some routes again in the future.

Maybe SN can operate one flight to JNP or CPT?

[DannyVDB]

I will not first fly to Frankfurt, Munich or Zurich to go to the US!

I think nobody ever stated that the direct flights between Brussels and the US would end. They even said at the press conference in September that SN would expand in Africa (as priority) and on other continents. So i think you will never be forced to fly via Frankfurt, Zurich or Munchen to go to the US. To other parts of the world like Asia for example, that will be an other story.

But that's not what I meant. SN offers now flights through it's codeshare with AA to > 20 destinations in the US. When UA, US (and eventually CO) would replace the codeshare with AA, this would not necessarily offer the same (amount of) destinations. Because of the codeshare with AA/BA it was also easy to go through London for destinations in the US (although I hate LHR ). In general the link with the US will be 'weaker' for SN passengers unless UA adds e.g. Chicago (I guess a lot of new links can be offered through Philadelphia, but not as many as AA/UA can offer through Chicago, not ) ...

Danny

[euroflyer]

Hm, I would expect MORE destinations in the US to be available. But maybe I am wrong. You can now go to FRA, MUC or ZRH and than have a DIRECT flight to your US destination; as those airports offer together much more direct flights to many more destinations in the US than today from BRU.

Furthermore, I think it will be attractive for *Alliance carriers from the US (UA, CO, US) to add flights from their main hubs to BRU in order to get the traffic into their US domestic network. So you will have many possibilities.

[Conti764]

But that's not what I meant. SN offers now flights through it's codeshare with AA to > 20 destinations in the US. When UA, US (and eventually CO) would replace the codeshare with AA, this would not necessarily offer the same (amount of) destinations. Because of the codeshare with AA/BA it was also easy to go through London for destinations in the US (although I hate LHR ). In general the link with the US will be 'weaker' for SN passengers unless UA adds e.g. Chicago (I guess a lot of new links can be offered through Philadelphia, but not as many as AA/UA can offer through Chicago, not ) ...

Danny

Actually, with CO alone, SN will get one of the biggest domestic networks out of one airport (EWR) in the US. Add to that the network of UA out of IAD and ORD and the network of US out of PHL and SN will have a pretty good range of US domestic routes to choose from.

[taz001]

I am not familiar with CO, but I can imagine they have a lot of connections out of EWR, but I can say from experience that UA offers a lot of connections too out of IAD. I don't think that they have to be underestimated with what AA offers out of ORD (seen as possible codeshare connections for SN ofcourse)... And PHL isn't exactly a small airport neither... they improved a lot the last years and it is US Airways' main hub, also don't forget they merged with American West.

[Conti764]

I am not familiar with CO, but I can imagine they have a lot of connections out of EWR, but I can say from experience that UA offers a lot of connections too out of IAD. I don't think that they have to be underestimated with what AA offers out of ORD (seen as possible codeshare connections for SN ofcourse)... And PHL isn't exactly a small airport neither... they improved a lot the last years and it is US Airways' main hub, also don't forget they merged with American West.

CO domestic routes:

http://www.airlineroutemaps.com/USA/Con ... _usa.shtml


UA domestic routes out of ORD:

http://www.airlineroutemaps.com/USA/Uni ... _ORD.shtml


UA domestic routes out of IAD:

http://www.airlineroutemaps.com/USA/Uni ... _IAD.shtml

In comparison: AA domestic map from JFK/LGA:

http://www.airlineroutemaps.com/USA/Ame ... _NYC.shtml

From ORD:

http://www.airlineroutemaps.com/USA/Ame ... _ORD.shtml

[taz001]

Thx Conti for the routemaps, gives me a better image about the connections... but also bear in mind that not all routes are possible connections for SN pax on UA, CO and US. But i do not think that at the end there will be less possibilities for SN pax on UA, CO, and US than there were on AA, on the contrary!

[chou-de-bruxelles]

Yesterday, there was a big article in "De Tijd" about Brussels Airlines joining Star Alliance under the title "Brussels Airlines may start dreaming again"; The CEO Bernard Gustin has said he would like an own terminal for Bru Air and his Star Alliance Partners, and also would like to open new routes to North America or Asia, besides Africa.
From an inside source, I know the 5th A330 will come ( from Swiss ) very soon.

I think it will be an exciting 2009 for Brussels Airport, despite the financal crisis.
They did a very good job by joining Lufthansa and Star Alliance.

Cheers

[Air Key West]

On its way to Star Alliance membership, SN will certainly abandon some code shares (AZ) in favor of Lufthansa Italia, set up new code shares with European Star Alliance members (SK, for instance) and the partnership with AA will be abandoned in favor of code shares with UA, US and CO. Three new partners will bring more connections to US cities than one. However, ORD will not be served and should be served as the US second city and best gateway to the West Coast and other Western cities. Given that most American carriers are cutting back on frequencies and have aircraft available, maybe UA, for which ORD is a major hub, could start flying the ORD BRU route. Otherwise, SN should definitely do it.

[Air Key West]

If LH and Star Alliance are serious about becoming a major actor in East/West/Central Africa, LH can make SN and BRU its hub to these parts of Africa. By the time LH totally owns SN, and LH as parent compagny of LX, could (should ?) decide that LX abandon its flights to East and West Africa (four destinations ? DLA Yaoundé and NBO DAR) and let them operate by SN.
Star is an alliance which does not neglect high revenue pax (business travelers) and for them frequency is a must. If you have business to do in Africa, once your business is done, you don't want to be stuck for two or three days in a city before you can fly back. Here AF-KL and BA are doing much better than SN currently.
I would see eight long haul planes flying to East/West and Central Africa, for instance (traffic rights permitting) :
1. daily to DKR with extensions to BJL (3x) and CKY (4x)
2. daily to Bamako with extensions to FNA (3x) and ROB (4x)
3. daily to ABJ/Accra
4. a. 4 x Ouaga + Lomé
b. 3 x Niamey + Cotonou
5. Daily to DLA/Yaoundé
6. Daily non stop to Kinshasa (possibly with a few extension flights to LAD)
7. Daily to NBO/DAR (more or less on the LX model)
8. Daily to EBB with extensions to KGL (4x) and BJM (3x)
I think this would be a good plan to start with. Although eight long haul planes is not a lot (LX has 25), it still would mean doubling the present number of intercontinental aircraft.
IMHO, this is probably the only way to counter AF-KL (Sky Team) and BA (oneworld) in these parts of Africa.
If you can count on feeder services/pax from most other Star partners, this increase in frequencies should not make the flights go empty.

[sn26567]

Nice ideas that you promote. They look a lot like the former Sabena network in Africa, but also refer to the cooperation between Swissair and Sabena when the latter was 50% owned by the former. E.g.

7. Daily to NBO/DAR (more or less on the LX model)

In those times the combined Swissair and Sabena were flying daily to NBO, but the flight was originating either in Brussels or in Zurich, never both the same day.

I doubt that LX will deliberately abandon some African flights in favour of SN, but we might see a return of that type of cooperation between SN, LX and the additional partner LH.