Hainan proposes to build its own terminal in CRL

[Desert Rat]

If Hainan buys a stake in Charleroi, the extension of the runway will be done in no time together with CAT III ILS and maybe a parallel runway could be added by moving Sabca and other hangars to the other side.

that would be a great idea, but is it really feasable???

[sn26567]

Belgian newspaper De Standaard reportsthat Hainan airlines is one of the three potential candidates for the partial privatisation of Charleroi airport.

Also in French in Le Vif/L'Express: http://www.levif.be/belga/economie/78-2 ... leroi.html

[Atlantis]

Chinese companies incl. Hainan are all more or less closely under state control (usually you may say under VERY close control ). So if Hainan is bidding for CRL, it does not mean automatically they are going to use the airport. The company might just be a vehicle for the Chinese state to do the investment

Wrong again. Hainan is 100% private.
Private companies do exist in China.

And Hainan will have to follow the conditions of the Walloon government. Good thing.

And wrong again. Hainan airlines is part of its parent company HNA Group. And HNA group is PARTLY owned by George Soros.

And also your second part is totally wrong. Hainan will absolutely not follow the Walloon government conditions. It will be the opposite. We saw that in many major international companies in Belgium who are bought by Indian or Chinese companies. The first half year you will notice nothing. After that period every single client and supplier has to follow the conditions of the Chinese. This will also be script for CRL IF Hainan will be the "winner".

[Acid-drop]

It's not that hard to fallow the requirements of the walloon gov : develop the infrastructure and the employment ...
Only the scale of these can vary between the contenders.
An alliance with hainan could also bring some cargo trafic in LGG...

[JOVAN]

Wrong again. Hainan is 100% private.
Private companies do exist in China.

Hainan is actually owned more than half by the government.

This discussion is not new.
We have discussed the possibility of Hainan starting a new start-up subsidiary to feed passengers to/from China throughout Europe and Africa.
Hainan has many many aircraft on order and can easily start-up such an operation.

Charleroi Airport can easily accommodate the A332 and B788 and with a bit of extension the A333

If Hainan buys a stake in Charleroi, the extension of the runway will be done in no time together with CAT III ILS and maybe a parallel runway could be added by moving Sabca and other hangars to the other side.

Advantages of CRL for a new Hainan hub are numerous:
-Lower cost on everything from landings to handling
-An airport at their own disposal
-Less congested airport = more efficiency
-Less environmentalists to cope with
-Ability to run its own subsidiary feeder without hassle
-Ability to open their own maintenance facilities
-Alot of potential in all fields

etc...

Building cargo infra-structures are but small details for an airline that's looking to buy an entire airport...

A look at their annual report shows that there are many shareholders, especially from Hainan Island (and Province): eg Haikou Airport C°Ltd.,.... many of this companies are local government and investment companies like we have GIMV, etc..

George Soros is a shareholder, and many shares are in foreign hands, including overseas Chinese.

Shares are noted on Shanghai Stock Exchange.

Quite a private C°, not 100% indeed.


CRL could be a fantastic choice for Hainan . Collaboration Hainan Airlines & CRL has enormous potential.
Very soon we may have a great new airport at CRL, longer runway, eventually a second runway and a railway station.

Let's hope the Walloon government plays it clever, and can turn the Charleroi area back into a prosperous region.
Meanwhile it looks as if the Flemish government continues with total lack of vision to run the airports in Flemish territory.
OST, ANR are ridiculous airfields with no future; strategy for BRU is also not convincing and the famous START-plan is almost dead.

[NCB]

OST, ANR are ridiculous airfields with no future; strategy for BRU is also not convincing and the famous START-plan is almost dead.

I agree.
ANR has a 2 million catchement area (incl. Antwerp suburbs, Gent & suburbs, Breda, Mechelen, etc...) and is alot easier to reach for passengers to/from BRU than CRL, ... ideal for a Ryanair base.
Oostende should be a gateway to Brugge, the Venice of the North, ideal for a Ryanair focus city.

Someday, someone has to come forward, hit the fist on the table and say: "Basta, time for something serious."

Back to Hainan, it looks like they have close to 100 Embraer's on order.
If they station 15 of those at CRL, under a European subsidiary, that should be enough for feeding throughout Europe.

[Atlantis]

I agree.
ANR has a 2 million catchement area (incl. Antwerp suburbs, Gent & suburbs, Breda, Mechelen, etc...) and is alot easier to reach for passengers to/from BRU than CRL, ... ideal for a Ryanair base.
Oostende should be a gateway to Brugge, the Venice of the North, ideal for a Ryanair focus city.

ANR is a city/business airport.
OST was an airport were Ryanair flew. But due to lack of pax they moved away their ops to CRL.

[Desert Rat]

[

ANR is a city/business airport.
OST was an airport were Ryanair flew. But due to lack of pax they moved away their ops to CRL.

OST was an Airport where Ryanair was flying or they had an Operations overthere (A/C Base)??

[euroflyer]

Chinese companies incl. Hainan are all more or less closely under state control (usually you may say under VERY close control ). So if Hainan is bidding for CRL, it does not mean automatically they are going to use the airport. The company might just be a vehicle for the Chinese state to do the investment

Wrong again. Hainan is 100% private.
Private companies do exist in China.

And Hainan will have to follow the conditions of the Walloon government. Good thing.

You really believe in a strategic industry like airlines a "private" Chinese company is free of state influence? Especially if it will be allowed by Chinese authorities to invest massively overseas, i.e. buying a whole airport in Europe? Sorry, this is just absolutely unrealistic, dream on

[JOVAN]

Chinese companies incl. Hainan are all more or less closely under state control (usually you may say under VERY close control ). So if Hainan is bidding for CRL, it does not mean automatically they are going to use the airport. The company might just be a vehicle for the Chinese state to do the investment

Wrong again. Hainan is 100% private.
Private companies do exist in China.

And Hainan will have to follow the conditions of the Walloon government. Good thing.

You really believe in a strategic industry like airlines a "private" Chinese company is free of state influence? Especially if it will be allowed by Chinese authorities to invest massively overseas, i.e. buying a whole airport in Europe? Sorry, this is just absolutely unrealistic, dream on

The future is for sure in the new economies (BRIC countries + several other countries in Asia, Latin America) and not so much in Europe. You don't know yet but we are already "occupied" by many companies from this countries.

Even if the Chinese government is behind, I don't mind if Hainan invests here and create business and jobs, that we Belgians are not able to create.

In the end, Indians and Chinese are maybe more business-minded than our dear neighbouring countries, who consider us more as a colony. The Dutch and the French, as well as the Swiss have shown in a not so distant past that in fact they come here as robbers. Playing dirty political games.

I think, from all our neighbours, only the Germans come as business-man; seeing the interests of all parties involved. That's why I am happy with LH takeover of SN.

But let us not be naive indeed. We don't know enough about the Chinese and Indian newcomers.


You don't know, I don't know.

[euroflyer]

Even if the Chinese government is behind, I don't mind if Hainan invests here and create business and jobs, that we Belgians are not able to create.

In the end, Indians and Chinese are maybe more business-minded than our dear neighbouring countries, who consider us more as a colony. The Dutch and the French, as well as the Swiss have shown in a not so distant past that in fact they come here as robbers. Playing dirty political games.

I think, from all our neighbours, only the Germans come as business-man; seeing the interests of all parties involved. That's why I am happy with LH takeover of SN.

But let us not be naive indeed. We don't know enough about the Chinese and Indian newcomers.


You don't know, I don't know.

Sorry, I think I do know a bit about them and I would not expect much more from them than you could expect from the Swiss or the Dutch, maybe even much less! Of course I am happy to hear your good opinion about the Germans (being one myself ), I hope you will be proofed right . However, I would not see the future for Europe so dark! Have you ever been to China or to India? Have you seen not only the brandnew skyscrapers but the millions of people living in a horrible poverty right next to the wonderful new world they are building? Have you ever had a look at the demographic situation (especially in China!)? There certainly is a future for those developing countries (hopefully for the people over there!), but there can be a quite bright future for Europe as well, if we just correct a few things and become a bit more proud of what we have over here , but this is quite off topic now I am aware

[LX-LGX]

In the end, Indians and Chinese are maybe more business-minded than our dear neighbouring countries, who consider us more as a colony. The Dutch and the French, as well as the Swiss have shown in a not so distant past that in fact they come here as robbers. Playing dirty political games.

I truly apologise to visitors from The Netherlands, France and Switserland for this ugly post. It's not because one Swiss aviation company indeed has ripped off a Belgian aviation company in the past, that all Belgians consider you as robbers.

Talking about colonies, Jovan: as a Belgian citizen, we should restain to comment on others. The reason why is too much off topic, but I suggest you read the chapter "Private colonialism" in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leopold_II_of_Belgium

[regi]

If you want to know how much German companies respect local labourers, read this article:
http://edition.cnn.com/2008/US/11/10/dh ... index.html

[euroflyer]

If you want to know how much German companies respect local labourers, read this article:
http://edition.cnn.com/2008/US/11/10/dh ... index.html

You are right of course, German companies like French, like UK, like Belgian, like Indian, like Chinese, like ... need to earn money That is the reason why they have been founded at some point of time by somebody and that is why some institutions and people invest their money into them Sad, but true Do not expect any company from anywhere to continue any operation which does not, at least in the long term, gives the possibility to earn money.

Another item is of course how to deal with those parts of their operations which might not be profitable anymore, here the behaviours are unfortunately very different and certainly not necessarily along national identities ... ... ...

[regi]

The only reason of existance of a company is to make profit.
If that is not the goal, it is not a company, but another kind of organisation.
The problem however is that some people read this " As much profit as possible, by any means allowed" And that is not right in the long term.
When Detroit closed many car manufacturing plants in the seventies, it was quite obviousthat less cars would be sold in Detroit, because the purchasing power of the labourers was gone.
DHL will se that through their UPS contract, they will loose touch with the local customer base. And that will hurt them. There was no reason to shut the hub. Same as in Brussels. It was only driven by "more profit by cost reduction" Not by more profit by investing in quality of staff and assets.
Small local competitors will attract ex DHL workers with specific skills, and work in niche markets where the profit margins are higher and competition thinner.
I know very well where I talk about. Who in Bruges, Belgium, still talks about the Siemens plant ( + 1,000 , now Tyco ) and Outboard Marine ( + 500, closed )? Nobody. But the eager people found another job.

[sn26567]

Could we please remain on topic: Hainan in CRL!