The future of Brussels Airlines with Lufthansa

[NCB]

You forgot eurowings: currently (according to their website) 15 BAe 146's (-200 and -300). So assuming LH will really buy those 60 C-Series and assuming they are meant to replace the AVRO's and BAe's, not many will be left for BruAir.

The C-series orders was announced 4 months before the SN deal.
There'll probably be room for more C-series orders very soon.

So maybe some CRJ 200s or 700s are an option for SN as well, especially regarding the European routes with so far rather low load factors?

I prefer the CRJ over the ERJ's.
Also ERJ's are apparently very tricky to maintain.

Also, having both the B737 and the A319 in a fleet when you have 20-50 of each isn't a problem, but it becomes one when you have less than a dozen of one and a mere four units of the other. This is a place where rationalization is needed in order to make savings, although it may not be that urgent as these few units are now virtually joining a much bigger fleet so the volume savings will be there for the most part.

Good point.

Concerning the maintenance of SN's aircraft, isn't it bad news for Sabena Technics ? I suppose the maintenance of the 737's, A319's and A330's will now be performed by LH Technik ?

Maybe on long term LH Technics will grow at BRU, merging with Brussels Airlines hangars.

All SN catering will now probably be handled in full by LSG Skychief.


Anyone have any news about staff?
Reactions of staff/unions?

[Andries]

Perhaps some A32X to find by AZ ?

That would actually be a good move if it were possible. They currently have 46 A320 family aircraft, so those aircraft have to go somewhere when Alitalia goes bankrupt. Their 12 A319's have an average age of 5 years, so that's still pretty young ! The 11 A320's average at about 8 years, which is still younger than BruAir's A319's average age of about 9 years. The A321's are a bit older. They average over 12 years. So if possible, acquiring some ex-Alitalia aircraft wouldn't be a bad move by BruAir !

Too bad they don't have A330's in their fleet....

They do have 10 B777's ... Just kidding !

Greetz !

Andries

[beaucaire]

It's no secret that THY have already put an eye on them..
The Turks have a problem getting long-range aircraft ,that's why the renovated two ex Air Jamaica A340-300's
Ordering new A330's would take five years to get them..

[Charlie Roy]

18 Avro's operated by Lufthansa CityLine.
20 Avro's operated by Swiss.
5 Avro's operated by Air Dolomiti.

That makes a total of 43 Avro's. As you know, Lufthansa has already signed a letter of intent to buy 60 Bombardier C-Series.

Not forgetting that Lufthansa also have 30 Embraer E190's on order.
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lufthansa - cf. "Fleet")
Now a few more of them serving destinations from Brussels would be a dream!

PS - I agree with an earlier comment that the Lufthansa mileage/points system is far too complicated. They should simplify down the whole thing. Think of the cost of employing people to spend their whole day trying to sort out complicated "I want to cash in my points" requests.

I should hope that when Brussels Airlines stops codesharing with British Airways, that British Airways would continue flying to Brussels airport.

[Cartman]

I should hope that when Brussels Airlines stops codesharing with British Airways, that British Airways would continue flying to Brussels airport.

Why wouldn't BA continue flying to BRU?

They take a good share of the BRU-LON market and take a lot of connecting PAX via LHR to the rest of the world...

[HighInTheSky]

I should hope that when Brussels Airlines stops codesharing with British Airways, that British Airways would continue flying to Brussels airport.

Why wouldn't BA continue flying to BRU?

They take a good share of the BRU-LON market and take a lot of connecting PAX via LHR to the rest of the world...

Speaking about LHR, does anybody know if, and how many slots SN has at LHR?

[BrightCedars]

about LHR, does anybody know if, and how many slots SN has at LHR?

I have also been wondering about this. When Sabena went bust in 2001, BA took over flying between BRU and LHR in cooperation with SN. I don't know what the agreement was at the time. Was BA renting the slots or did they buy them from the insolvent Sabena? It could really be a problem for SN if they cannot serve LHR although it is not a primary transfer market. They can cooperate with BD within Star Alliance but as the future of BD is not settled yet (options by LH?), what would happen if in their turn they were to leave Star Alliance?

I remember that at the time TV was operating the flights to and from LHR so it could be that they had been transferred or leased by Sabena to TV. But if that had been the case I'm sure TV would still have operated LHR after the demise of Sabena.

[sn26567]

Speaking about LHR, does anybody know if, and how many slots SN has at LHR?

Zero! The former Sabena slots have all been sold to BA for a very high price (25 million euros, if I remember correctly).

[BrightCedars]

Zero! The former Sabena slots have all been sold to BA for a very high price (25 million euros, if I remember correctly).

So was there a clause that BA to operate the given route for a minimum of time and/or frequency no matter what and codeshare systematically with the new SN?

If not, I can imagine BA slight reducing the frequency on this route and upping the hardware capacity in order to use a few slots for long-haul services.

[AirDupont]

BMI has enough flights between BRU and LHR

[BrightCedars]

BMI has enough flights between BRU and LHR

The whole point is that with the uncertain future of BD as part of the LH group and Star Alliance, SN could end up without any connection to LHR. Or are they already using more LGW for African passengers?

[AirDupont]

XL airways had 3 332 on order with a delivery between end 08 and begininng 09...there you have 3 AC's that don't have a new owner yet.

[Vinnie-Winnie]

The whole point is that with the uncertain future of BD as part of the LH group and Star Alliance, SN could end up without any connection to LHR. Or are they already using more LGW for African passengers?

Which uncertainty exactly? Thought it was a given that BD would end up being bought by LH!

[BrightCedars]

Which uncertainty exactly? Thought it was a given that BD would end up being bought by LH!

Well, I think LH has an option to buy BD but was it already given green light by the competition authorities? So in case they get the green light to buy SN, and maybe others afterwards (OS, SK,...), would they still be allowed to take-over BD?

Most of us thought SN would end up in bed with BA and oneworld and were proved wrong earlier this week.

[Conti764]

Since AZ is most likely ending its operations, there may be some equipment for SN to lease, if needed with the financial help of LH?

Maybe the four leased B777-200ER (GECAS) are an option? They could replace the A333's on Africa (SN could even keep on or two of them). The 772ER are more fuel efficient and have only 9 seats less, but offer 12 more C-seats (higher yield).

Now I may be dreaming of seeing 'the second most beautiful plane on the market' in SN colors, but on the other hand, the company should really rationalize around one manufacturer of aircraft and since the majority of their short to medium haul fleet already exists of Boeing aircraft, they might as well rationalize around Boeing aircraft, since most of their widebodies (accept for the Dreamliner) are easier to lease (in terms of availability) then comparable Airbusses (with heaps of companies in line for the A332)...

And with Lufthansa buying A320's they'll have to get rid of (some) of their Boeings 737, so those might be transferred to SN for their European operations.

And in addition to that, for smaller markets (across the Atlantic?) two or three B767-300's could be used as well, certainly if they can be equipped with the new winglets.

[brussels airlines]

It's not difficult to chose between Airbus or Boeing. The difficulty is to chose how many and what capacity they should have. They have to chose to be more a lowcost carrier or more a full service carrier because for both types there are different needs.

[HighInTheSky]

It's not difficult to chose between Airbus or Boeing. The difficulty is to chose how many and what capacity they should have. They have to chose to be more a lowcost carrier or more a full service carrier because for both types there are different needs.

That will be full service carrier then, as we are in the 'Premium' segment of the Lufthansa group together with Lufthansa and Swiss.

[Airbus330lover]

Bye bye B.Flex and B.Light

[Ducatibiker]

-And welcome back Champagne !
-middle seat blocked in C on European flights
-Star Alliance Company Plus Program
-Competitive pricing on long haul flights
-Senator/*Alliance Gold status really recognised by staff - including ground staff at BRU airport
-Premium check in desk
-Possibility to have Miles&Mores/*alliance rewards with American Express
-City Bank Mastercard ?
-lounges with decent food (the little red candy might be back !)
-two different lounges (like in STR and ZRH with real catering)
-First Class on flights to Africa with full flat beds

[LX-LGX]

-And welcome back Champagne !
-middle seat blocked in C on European flights
-Star Alliance Company Plus Program
-Competitive pricing on long haul flights
-Senator/*Alliance Gold status really recognised by staff - including ground staff at BRU airport
-Premium check in desk
-Possibility to have Miles&Mores/*alliance rewards with American Express
-City Bank Mastercard ?
-lounges with decent food (the little red candy might be back !)
-two different lounges (like in STR and ZRH with real catering)
-First Class on flights to Africa with full flat beds

Looks like Brussels Airlines will have to double the fares to comply with these demands...