Strike by Transavia

[kleineboy]

A group of Pilotes of Transavia wants to strike at wednesday
http://www.destentor.nl/algemeen/binnen ... acties.ece

[Air Key West]

After the TP pilots strike, the LH strikes, the Aviapartner/Flightcare strikes at BRU, the Swissport workers strike at LGW, now a Transavia strike !!!! LX-LGX is going to have a heart attack !!!

[website-info]

After the TP pilots strike, the LH strikes, the Aviapartner/Flightcare strikes at BRU, the Swissport workers strike at LGW, now a Transavia strike !!!! LX-LGX is going to have a heart attack !!!

So which bit of LX-LGX's statement about advance notice did you not get !!!
TP pilots told in advance
LH told in advance
Swissport told in advance
Transavia told in advance

Aviapartner/Flightcare no advance warning.

As he has to deal with passengers everyday, I guess he is on the end of all their compalints, so I think he has a right to complain about no advance notice. With advance notice you can inform people, even if it's only tell passengers about the strike, it still gives them a chance to rebook.

I know a cargo crew delayed 2 days because of this pathetic strike, (yes I say pathetic because in days gone by I've done the loading job, and yes with 3 guys and that was before all the ULD loaded aircraft came along - I was paid for 8 hours work and I did 8 hrs work) just think how much that has cost that one company.

T

[LX-LGX]

After the TP pilots strike, the LH strikes, the Aviapartner/Flightcare strikes at BRU, the Swissport workers strike at LGW, now a Transavia strike !!!! LX-LGX is going to have a heart attack !!!

Typical example of what we say in Dutch: "de man spelen i.p.v. de bal". Translated: seems you don't have a reply against my complaint that these strikes really hurt and damage innocent travellers, so you prefer to shoot the messenger.

(and you are forgetting one forthcoming strike: Alitalia, 5 or 6 September: a one-minute-strike)

[Air Key West]

I don't see how an industrial action would not hurt clients in general, passengers in the aviation industry. If there is a strike (or work to rule or whatever industrial action) in a factory, there will be delivery delays to the customers. If there is an industrial action in the airline sector (pilots, flight attendants, bagage handlers, ATC, etc..) passengers will always be the first and most visible victims.
I don't think that the alternative you suggested once, taking management's car keys or taking management as hostages would be better. Stealing and taking hostages is much worse from the legal point of view than a strike. But I will agree on one point : wild cat strikes should be avoided by all means. So, let all workers be unionised in order for their unions to organise strikes properly, if necessary, and not be surprised themselves by workers taking things in their own hands. Any volunteers to start a unionising campaign at BRU ?

[LX-LGX]

How to destroy your own company, part 637: the Transavia-pilots will go on strike next Tuesday (26/08), 02h00-17h00.

VNV (Dutch union) says it regrets that the public will be hurt. But they don't care at all, as it's the main objective from every strike to damage the company through damaging its clients.

[LX-LGX]

Transavia is taking VNV (the pilots' union) to court on Monday: they want the judge to forbid the strike. Transavia says that there are possibilities to end the dispute through negociations instead of through strike.

If the strike goes on, 40 flights will be cancelled, leaving 5.200 tourists stranded.

(source: De Telegraaf)

[tolipanebas]

it's the main objective from every strike to damage the company through damaging its clients.

Let's look at the rat race from a purely behavioral point of view, shall we?

In a managerial environment where everything is focussed on minimizing costs and negociations with the unions are really just about winning as much time as possible so as to keep labour costs from increasing, the only way to persuade managers to give in to social demands is to step into their own mental model and create a new unexpected cost (i.e. a strike), to which the managers will then want to react almost instinctively by trying to minimize it, just as with every other cost.

That way, what seemed like an exorbitant new expense at first (i.e. the cost giving in to the social demands) suddenly becomes a valuable cost saving investment, a label by which it gets accepted much easier by them.

The psychology of our economy and the behavioral pattern managers are ever increasingly subjected to, thus makes strikes almost an inherent final step in the process of dealing with them.

[LX-LGX]

it's the main objective from every strike to damage the company through damaging its clients.

Let's look at the rat race from a purely behavioral point of view, shall we? In a managerial environment where everything is focussed on minimizing costs and negociations with the unions are really just about winning as much time as possible so as to keep labour costs from increasing, the only way to persuade managers to give in to social demands is to step into their own mental model and create a new unexpected cost (i.e. a strike), to which the managers will then want to react almost instinctively by trying to minimize it, just as with every other cost. That way, what seemed like an exorbitant new expense at first (i.e. the cost giving in to the social demands) suddenly becomes a valuable cost saving investment, a label by which it gets accepted much easier by them. The psychology of our economy and the behavioral pattern managers are ever increasingly subjected to, thus makes strikes almost an inherent final step in the process of dealing with them.

1. not a single word of respect towards the only victims of your strike: the passengers. I haven't expected otherwise.

2. your statement is a perfect example of what we call in Dutch: links lullen, rechts de zakken vullen. To talk about "social demands" and "labour costs" and "behavioral pattern managers", but meanwhile you are one of the happy few on the payroll.

3. Transavia is not asking for a decrease in salaries: it's the pilots asking for a salary increase. Second "reason" for this strike: the Transavia-pilots want to take over the decision in which hotel they will stay. What's next: transport to the hotel in a BMW 730i or similar? Third reason: pilots want "less time pressure". Well, I've spent quite some time on jump seats, in the cabin and on the ground (before check-in, at check-in, after the check-in). I can assure you: if you want to know what time pressure is, ask cabin crew, ask station managers, ask check-in supervisors. We totally rely on you on for that rare moment things go wrong, and we all accept you are paid according to that upmost responsability. But please, don't give us the impression you are not paid fair enough.

4. General: this strike reminds me to the orchestra on the Titanic. Aviation is in deep trouble nowadays, and yet some ignore it. Take a look at Just Planes' list of Defunct airlines: today, we're already at 40: the double of last year's total "Suspended all flights". And we still have 4 months to go.
( http://www.justplanes.com/AirlineHist.html )

[tolipanebas]

1. not a single word of respect towards the only victims of your strike: the passengers. I haven't expected otherwise

Note that it is the airline which has a contract with the passengers, not the employees, so as such it really is up to the airline to avoid the nasty consequences to their passengers by thinking proactively and making sure their corporate government mentality does not decay to a point where social negociations can only be fructitious when playing on the managerial behavioral pattern of governing by the pocket calculator alone, thus avoiding the need for strike.

2. your statement is a perfect example of what we call in Dutch: links lullen, rechts de zakken vullen.

Well, sorry to disappoint you, but contrary to most people who just have a job, pilots -just like soccer players, doctors, lawyers etc.- have what is called a carrier which is known to be limited in time (due to the medical requirements) and they want to get the maximum out of it.

We're no non-profit workers, who are contented with the pleasure of helping to bring together the people of this world. Besides, I didn't know the airlines were non-profit organisations? Last mail from SN I received, talked about the need to increase the non-aviation related revenue from the website for instance...

3. Transavia is not asking for a decrease in salaries: it's the pilots asking for a salary increase.

In a country where there is no automatic correction of the salary to inflation (which this year is snowballing), a frozen salary IS a decrease in salary.

Second "reason" for this strike: the Transavia-pilots want to take over the decision in which hotel they will stay.

Perfectly justified demand, applicable in most airlines.

As long as the hotel accomadation envelope (i.e. the budget reserved for a lay-over) is respected, the airline should let the choice of the hotel to the crew... But the reason transavia doesn't want to do this, is because they want to keep leverage over the hotels by threatening them to swap hotel, thus making additional cost savings, which are often fed back to the crew: no more free internet access, no more free fitness access, no more crew discount on the restaurant bills etc... So it's the crew which has to make up the 'saving' from their own pocket!

What's next: transport to the hotel in a BMW 730i or similar?

Running out of factual arguments, are you?

Third reason: pilots want "less time pressure". Well, I've spent quite some time on jump seats, in the cabin and on the ground (before check-in, at check-in, after the check-in). I can assure you: if you want to know what time pressure is, ask cabin crew, ask station managers, ask check-in supervisors. We totally rely on you on for that rare moment things go wrong, and we all accept you are paid according to that upmost responsability. But please, don't give us the impression you are not paid fair enough.

Can't we use the same argument about every CEO of a factory? I mean, the guy comes in and leaves as he pleases, can sit in his office, overlooking things, not doing much, whereas his workers need to assemble the goods on a very strict time schedule (timed to seconds)? And yet he's paid a load more than his workers on the floor!

[Vexje]

Some more glorified busdrivers who think we are still in the glorious seventies....

About the CEO statement just above here: I don't know who your CEO is, or whoch the previous were but it seems to me you have a very distorted view on what it means being a CEO, but then again you are not the onle one thinking, and probably while your cruising you have a lot of time making mental films ....

[tolipanebas]

Some more glorified busdrivers who think we are still in the glorious seventies....

ROTFL: So while you take a laugh with my ironic job description of a CEO, thus failing to see it is a parody in reply to LX's remarks, you apparently think in parody about the job of a pilot yourself, comparing it to driving a bus.

I am not going to elaborate about the technical aspects of the job description of a pilot itself, but just point out to you that the law gives the captain of a plane very specific tasks and privileges, which clearly puts pilots apart from busdrivers in the mind of those who know better.

Under the Tokyo Convention for instance, the captain of a plane has far reaching legal coercive powers over all pax on board; on top of that when his plane is in flight the Belgian law makes the pilot the highest civil servant responsible over the extra-territorial part of Belgium which his plane has become and through the AOC of the airline puts far more decisive weight on his sholders than a bus driver in a bus company will ever 'enjoy'.

Your comparison between pilots and busdrivers is as valid as saying a chirugical doctor is just like a butcher because they both cut up meat with knives...

[Vexje]

ROTFL: So while you take a laugh with my ironic job description of a CEO, thus failing to see it is a parody in reply to LX's remarks, you apparently think in parody about the job of a pilot yourself, comparing it to driving abus.

So while you ironically attack me as passing my position as a lazy person, you fail to see the counter-irony of my statement. obviously there is more to a pilot's position than being a bus driver, but maybe you should think twice before posting offending descriptions about somonelse's job.

By international law (by that meaning laws of different countries) the CEO carries responsiblity over all legal, financial, and civil aspects of a company... so if one of the busdrivers f*** up, the CEO has end responsibility...might give you something to think about

[kleineboy]

Strike are forbidden by Dutch court

[LX-LGX]

Strike are forbidden by Dutch court

Indeed! The judge said that the strike is illegal and premature, so he forbits this strike and a any forthcoming strike, untill negociations through an mediator took place.

De Telegraaf: "De rechter vindt dat een staking van de piloten aanzienlijke schade betekent voor Transavia en dat de belangen van de passagiers daarmee worden geschaad." Translated: the judge says that a strike by the pilots will cause substantial damage to Transavia and that it will harm the interests from the passengers.

http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/1767 ... ten__.html

[fc82091]

good call from the judge.
and transavia has more pressure to give the pilots better work (pay?) conditions now so its not like the pilots lots the war

[tolipanebas]

FWIW:

Transavia pilots could just report they are not fit to fly, a clause forseen in international law, allowing pilots to refuse a duty without being sick or having to go on strike... It has been used several times at Air France in the past for instance and once at Brussels Airlines (in 2004).

'Not fit to fly' can come from many sources, for instance just having had a bad night sleep...
Those things can happen to everybody and you definitely do not want a pilot behind the controls who has serious concentration troubles and you do not have to get a medical certificate for it, since there is no medical condition associated with it. What's more no judge can force you to resume work either...

If all pilots report 'not fit for duty' at the same time, it has the same result as a strike and a nice consequence of it is we don't even loose money over it, since we're not on strike!

I expect something like this if no improvement is made soon, legal proceding and court order notwithstanding.

[LX-LGX]

FWIW:

Transavia pilots could just report they are not fit to fly, a clause forseen in international law, allowing pilots to refuse a duty without being sick or having to go on strike... It has been used several times at Air France in the past for instance and once at Brussels Airlines (in 2004).

'Not fit to fly' can come from many sources, for instance just having had a bad night sleep...
Those things can happen to everybody and you definitely do not want a pilot behind the controls who has serious concentration troubles and you do not have to get a medical certificate for it, since there is no medical condition associated with it. What's more no judge can force you to resume work either...

If all pilots report 'not fit for duty' at the same time, it has the same result as a strike and a nice consequence of it is we don't even loose money over it, since we're not on strike!

I expect something like this if no improvement is made soon, legal proceding and court order notwithstanding.

This really proofs how frustrated you are because you (pilots) are not allowed to run the company you're flying for.

Sure, it may have happened before: we know some of you have no limits when it comes to increase your income (which isn't already that bad). Only this time, you face an employer who takes you to court. If the judge says that your international-law-not-fit-to-fly is industrial action - which he has forbitten - Transavia will get a huge compensation, which will outsource VNV's financial possibilities. And, more important: such new judgement could allow Transavia to dismiss the pilots who caused the damage. So I don't think your Dutch collegues will feel not fit to fly. Yes, this sounds like war talk. But then, the pilots started it. Transavia is acting in self defense now.