A350 design change

bits44 · Post by **bits44** » 21 Sep 2007, 22:42

The nose section will now resemble the A380?

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/20 ... 0-xwb.html

FLY4HOURS.BE · Post by **FLY4HOURS.BE** » 22 Sep 2007, 04:29

Ugly!!!!

The A330 still looks newer.

They should do something about those cockpit windows...
That's too bad to be true.

Bleah

CX · Post by CX » 22 Sep 2007, 06:40

I can't believe this crap looking nose has better aerodynamics than the original one! and even if they do it this way, they surely can re-arrange the windows to make it look better than this! This looks like some Russian or Chinese designed plane.. what a blow, it doesn't look cool anymore.. imagine if the 787 and XWB has identical performance, you will pick the better looking one and until now, the XWB looked better.. well maybe not but just expressing how ugly this nose is.

TUB001 · Post by **TUB001** » 22 Sep 2007, 09:52

Simply awful

achace · Post by **achace** » 22 Sep 2007, 10:58

Dont worry guys, the beancounters will love it.

With the reduced aft taper to give a constant cross section and the new "ugly" nose, it generates more revenue, which is what this game is about.

Personally, I think the A380 nose looks workmanlike, and certainly no worse than the 747, which has a constipated appearance.

Cheers
Achace

teach · Post by **teach** » 22 Sep 2007, 11:19

imagine if the 787 and XWB has identical performance, you will pick the better looking one

Please tell me that's a joke.

Seriously.

BTW, let's not forget that what you see in the article is Flightglobal's interpretation of what the plane will look like with the new nose, and nothing more than that. It's not an Airbus drawing.

smokejumper · Post by **smokejumper** » 22 Sep 2007, 14:19

An airline (the paying customer) will order the plane with the optimum characteristics for its operations. These characteristics include operational, maintenance, training and spare parts costs, projected depreciaton and, purchase price; as well as expected revenue generated. Frankly, the ugliest plane ever designed will sell if it can deliver low costs and high revenues, coupled with the speed and range needed.

Passengers will fly on the airline operating the best schedule frequency and the lowest ticket cost. I do not think most travelers will pay a premium to fly on a pretty plane. They want convenient, safe and low-cost travel.

This said, the new nose is very awkward looking. The A-330 nose is much more attractive.

CX · Post by CX » 22 Sep 2007, 15:15

teach wrote:
imagine if the 787 and XWB has identical performance, you will pick the better looking one
Please tell me that's a joke.

Seriously.

BTW, let's not forget that what you see in the article is Flightglobal's interpretation of what the plane will look like with the new nose, and nothing more than that. It's not an Airbus drawing.

yeah that was a joke, it's just my way to express the ugliness of this thing..

I think that picture is actually from Airbus, it was what Airbus gave to Flightglobal of 'one of the possible' nose designs..

Buzz · Post by **Buzz** » 22 Sep 2007, 19:59

CX wrote:I think that picture is actually from Airbus, it was what Airbus gave to Flightglobal of 'one of the possible' nose designs..

No it's not, they would have a reference in it to Airbus, instead of the logo of FlightInternational. They have a tradition of making their own drawings.

A350XWB · Post by **A350XWB** » 25 Sep 2007, 10:54

news A350XWB :

Airbus Sets Lower Thrust Requirement For A350

http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/ ... For%20A350

l'A350-900 passe 87,000 lb... a.. 83,000 lb
l'A350-800 " 75,000 lb...a...74,000 lb
l'A350-1000 " 95000 lb....a...92000 lb

new flightdeck : Airbus reveals all-new A350 XWB flightdeck design

Airbus has severed links with the A380 for its new A350 XWB cockpit, adopting an all-new configuration that rivals the Boeing 787 in the size of display screens.
“After discussions with customers, we’ve decided to go away from the A380-sized cockpit displays and adopt larger 15in (38cm) displays,” says A350 XWB chief engineer Gordon McConnell

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/20 ... esign.html

achace · Post by **achace** » 25 Sep 2007, 11:02

Those new thrust levels suggest a big reduction in fuel burn, or even greater range if they keep the same fuel capacity.

Sydney - London non-stop looms closer.

Cheers
Achace

Ziplepingouin · Post by **Ziplepingouin** » 25 Sep 2007, 12:50

New cockpit for the A350

Flightglobal.com

PICTURE: Airbus reveals all-new A350 XWB flightdeck design
By Max Kingsley-Jones

Airbus has severed links with the A380 for its new A350 XWB cockpit, adopting an all-new configuration that rivals the Boeing 787 in the size of display screens.
“After discussions with customers, we’ve decided to go away from the A380-sized cockpit displays and adopt larger 15in (38cm) displays,” says A350 XWB chief engineer Gordon McConnell.

The XWB had previously been proposed with a cockpit based on that of the A380. Its new six screen configuration has two central displays mounted one above the other (the lower one on the centre console in front of the thrust levers) and a single primary flight/navigation display in front of each pilot with an on-board information system screen adjacent to it.

McConnell says that there were two main drivers behind the decision to revamp the cockpit: “The ability to share some of this airport and navigation information on the centre display is seen as advantage for the pilots because it means they can be looking at the same display together."

He adds that it will also allow Airbus “to put some more advances in navigation technology on to the displays in the future”.

earthman · Post by **earthman** » 25 Sep 2007, 13:06

There goes the commonality though...

NimbusFlyer · Post by **NimbusFlyer** » 25 Sep 2007, 14:58

earthman wrote:There goes the commonality though...

Airbus commonality is about the handling of the aircraft trough fly-by-wire and handling of the aircraft systems. This is why a heavy A321 feels and flies like an A330. The A319 and A320 are a little bit different, still quite alike.

The airbus philosophy makes it possible to handle emergencies in the same way on every Airbus, even if those systems are different on the A320 family and the A330/340. It has nothing to do with larger screens and the positioning of those screens. There are already differences between the cockpits of an A320/330/340, this proposal for the A350 is just an upgrade, it looks like a mix of an A330 and an A380 to me.

If you look in detail, the Primary Flight Display and Navigation Display are combined but are still presented in the same way as on the other Airbus models. The bigger difference is the extra screen now available for the airport and/or approach maps i.s.o. having them clipped to the sliding window. There is also some difference in the central ECAM presentation, but as I said before, just an upgrade.

Brgds.

earthman · Post by **earthman** » 25 Sep 2007, 15:22

Wow, thank you for your elaborate and informative reply.

CX · Post by CX » 25 Sep 2007, 16:31

certainly good news, i guess they saved a bit of weight using composite frames thus allowing for the lower thrust?

earthman · Post by **earthman** » 25 Sep 2007, 17:24

What about that new CentrAl laminate which was just presented in Delft today, they claim it's 20% lighter than CFRP for a given strength, and has pretty much the same maintenance characteristics as Aluminum. Perhaps they could consider using that, while they still try to figure out the design?

RC20 · Post by **RC20** » 28 Sep 2007, 08:27

According to the article, cockpit is still Aluminum structure.

Still a lot of corrosion issues to deal with. Weird to have a mixed structure still, better with the composite frames in the main cabin, but weird not to go the whole route (my prediction is they will, a lot of pressure on this, and so far, they have succumbed to it, there must be some huge behind the scenes arms twisting).

Boeing seems to think a 2015 in service date for the A350 is more realistic. Considering all the stuff they have to do to make it happen, that seems quite plausible.

achace · Post by **achace** » 28 Sep 2007, 09:10

The XWB nose issue is interesting, as Airbus could very easily have gone composite, so there must be some aspects over whch there is some debate.

I once flew in a 707 which had a very spectacular lightning strike on the fibreglass nose cone.

Makes you wonder?

Cheers
Achace

CX · Post by CX » 28 Sep 2007, 13:47

Didn't somewhere said they want it aluminium because it has better characterstic in case of a bird strike?