b.air MD83 is replaced by Girjet Fokker F100

Air Key West · Post by **Air Key West** » 21 Sep 2007, 18:33

Hi Bruconvention : you have a point concerning the ACMI lease and paying for hours flown. However, I think Fly4hours has even better arguments (although you're not totally wrong). If one wants to look at the positive side of things, since the MD83 are likely to be only half full, many middle seats will be left unoccupied, meaning extra comfort for passengers. But will it mean extra comfort for b.air when they will be looking at their two first quarter results, and later at their financial results for a whole year of operation. And is it better to give a lot of money to an aircraft leasing company rather than to your pilots ?

Ducatibiker · Post by **Ducatibiker** » 21 Sep 2007, 20:41

Have a look at prices offered between LYS and BRU on Air France...
They also have business class ! Have a look at pricing on TGV.com between Brussels, Lille, or even TGV Haute Picardie and Lyon ! I doubt this route can yield high revenues....

Air Key West · Post by **Air Key West** » 22 Sep 2007, 13:10

Last time I flew AF between BRU and LYS, they didn't have Business class on board. Only "Tempo Challenge" (fully flexible economy) and "Tempo" (reduced economy fare). Same inflight service for everybody. No Champagne, although on their A318 to A321 aircraft AF will offer you a glass of Champagne in "Tempo Challenge". I thought it was a very poor service for a very high (fully flexible economy) fare.
As for b.air, the LYS route will probably not be profitable if operated with an MD83 with too large a capacity, and with a smaller aircraft it will probably only be profitable if they offer GOOD connections (= not too long) in BRU to a fairly large number of cities. But I think b.air haven't realised the need to develop a real hub in BRU to increase their load factors.

Post by **sn26567** » 25 Sep 2007, 11:07

Just saw that the flights SN3587-8 to/from Lyon today are operated by an F100 (and delayed by more than one hour, but that is another story!). Did they find an alternative to the MD83?

The F100 is mentioned in the spotters database, but without a company name.

Post by **sn26567** » 25 Sep 2007, 11:19

Just got the information that this Fokker 100 belongs to Girjet, a Spanish company specialised in wetlease operations.

Avro · Post by **Avro** » 25 Sep 2007, 11:22

Is this F100 flying in additin to the MD83 ? Or is the MD83 now definitely cancelled ? Because I still see it mentioned in the spotters database ??

Chris

Post by **sn26567** » 25 Sep 2007, 11:37

Good question, Chris.

I have another question: I know that the MD83 was scheduled to fly to Manchester. I am myself booked on flights SN2173/2178 to/from Manchester on 3 October . By checking on Amadeus whether I might benefit from the MD83, I saw that the return flight SN2178 is operated on a BAe146-200 "by another airline"! Which one? I suspect it might well be the F100 instead (or the MD83...)

Post by **speedbird1** » 25 Sep 2007, 12:35

According to Flightstats tonights SN2178, the opting equipment is in as an MD83!

http://www.flightstats.com/go/FlightSta ... &x=13&y=10

Ems

Post by **sn26567** » 25 Sep 2007, 13:37

Emirates wrote:According to Flightstats tonights SN2178, the opting equipment is in as an MD83!

Yes, but Flightstats also mentions that today's SN3587 flight to Lyon is also operated by a Flightline MD83, which obviously was not the case!

http://www.flightstats.com/go/FlightSta ... 5&x=6&y=12

Skystef · Post by **Skystef** » 25 Sep 2007, 15:14

Avro wrote:Is this F100 flying in additin to the MD83 ? Or is the MD83 now definitely cancelled ? Because I still see it mentioned in the spotters database ?? Chris

Seems you didn't read the DB very carefull. The F100 will do the job only on 25 & 26, the MD83 from 27 onwards.

Avro · Post by **Avro** » 25 Sep 2007, 15:17

Skystef wrote:
Avro wrote:Is this F100 flying in additin to the MD83 ? Or is the MD83 now definitely cancelled ? Because I still see it mentioned in the spotters database ?? Chris
Seems you didn't read the DB very carefull. The F100 will do the job only on 25 & 26, the MD83 from 27 onwards.

Thanks for clearing up the confusion Stef !! My mistake I didn't read it correctly.

Chris

Air Key West · Post by **Air Key West** » 26 Sep 2007, 13:02

Does anyone know if Girjet's Fokker 100 will operate other wet lease flights for b.air ? This aircraft ( probably with a capacity of approximately 100 seats) seems more appropriate to me than the 170-seat MD83.

Skystef · Post by **Skystef** » 26 Sep 2007, 21:42

Latest news is that the F100 will do the job indefinite instead of the MD83.

FLY4HOURS.BE · Post by **FLY4HOURS.BE** » 27 Sep 2007, 09:11

Just had a thought, a bit off-topic but:

Isn't the Fokker 100 aircraft more suitable for B.air's operations than the Avro?

Fuel consumption is about 30% lower than the Avro, and maintenance costs are strongly reduced because of 2 engines instead of 4.
And if they need spare parts, they just need to drive 2 hours northbound.

As the aircraft was produced in a limited number before Fokker collapsed, the demand for it is quite low, which brings a price advantage...

And KLM cityhopper is replacing its Fokker fleet gradually effective 2008, at a rate of one aircraft per month, while they take delivery of their Embraer's on order.
I think this might be interesting for B.air on a short-term for the while they wait for the short-haul replacements.(SSJ or E-jets whatever)

This is a good opportunity for B.air to lease-test this aircraft.

Stij · Post by **Stij** » 27 Sep 2007, 09:25

FLY4HOURS.BE wrote:Just had a thought, a bit off-topic but:

Isn't the Fokker 100 aircraft more suitable for B.air's operations than the Avro?

Fuel consumption is about 30% lower than the Avro, and maintenance costs are strongly reduced because of 2 engines instead of 4.
And if they need spare parts, they just need to drive 2 hours northbound.

As the aircraft was produced in a limited number before Fokker collapsed, the demand for it is quite low, which brings a price advantage...

And KLM cityhopper is replacing its Fokker fleet gradually effective 2008, at a rate of one aircraft per month, while they take delivery of their Embraer's on order.
I think this might be interesting for B.air on a short-term for the while they wait for the short-haul replacements.(SSJ or E-jets whatever)

This is a good opportunity for B.air to lease-test this aircraft.

If maintenance costs are lower and fuel burn is lower, why did Sabena then buy the Avro? It can't be just because of THF, FLR and LCY? Was the Avro that cheap?

Cheers,

Stij

spotter1102 · Post by **spotter1102** » 27 Sep 2007, 11:10

Is the reg of the Fokker 100 already know ?

Robin_Bamps · Post by **Robin_Bamps** » 27 Sep 2007, 11:16

spotter1102 wrote:Is the reg of the Fokker 100 already know ?

EC-JDN. Just check the spotters database. And it's a/w n/t unfortunately.

Regards, Robin Bamps.

spotter1102 · Post by **spotter1102** » 27 Sep 2007, 11:29

Robin_Bamps wrote:
spotter1102 wrote:Is the reg of the Fokker 100 already know ?
EC-JDN. Just check the spotters database. And it's a/w n/t unfortunately.

Regards, Robin Bamps.

Ok

I update my website !

Air Key West · Post by **Air Key West** » 27 Sep 2007, 12:21

Hi Skystef : do you have a reliable source to confirm that the F100 will replace the MD83 on all flights ? Is Flightline out ?

Skystef · Post by **Skystef** » 27 Sep 2007, 14:37

Air Key West wrote:Hi Skystef : do you have a reliable source to confirm that the F100 will replace the MD83 on all flights ? Is Flightline out ?

It is as reliable as it can be, Flightline is normally out.